View Full Version : Updated goods and adventure price sheet
Goods and adventure price list plus adventure comparison tables (www.tinyurl.com/NFtrade)
This is an up to date price sheet for goods and adventures for the server newfoundland created by me and Nukar. It has evolved to include an adventure comparion sheet based on the updated market values.
The adventure comparison may be found on the 2nd page
If you have found a fault or a price that is not up to date, whisper any of the people mentioned in the sheet or whisper me to be added to the list of updaters.
nice list as well stalk :) goes smoothly together with MRH4Ms post :)
A big factor in trade prices is dependent upon....well i'm not gonna tell you that, obviously, but you're wrong, nevertheless.
There are of course other factors, such as time of day and current offers on tab, a sheet like this cannot cover everything. Any experienced trader will have most of these numbers in their head rather than on paper. This is more a guide for players unfamiliar with the pricing. Thanks for understanding.
Thank you guys for this guide. In a game where there are so many factors I appreciate having a solid starting point.
The alternative is running blind into the melee with just your **** in your hand.
So again thanks for you time and effort in providing this.
kind regards,
Naturist
Thanks for this - the time and effort you and Nukar have put into this is much appreciated:)
Well this sheet has been open for public a few days now. And im glad to see a lot off you actually use it. Thnx for that.
Ofcourse ppl like to debate the prices we at FWB use... but hé, all have their own motives to do so ;)
Currently we are looking into expanding the sheets with more information. We got some ideas of our own. But if you would like us to include other stuf post it here, or mail me ingame (/w i dont always have time for). Im looking forward to your input and ideas.
Cheers
Nukar
Calculated market value of the goods from an average loot spot of multiplayer adventures to help with loot spot price evaluation
Coming soon: Evaluation of adventure troop losses in coins for different tactics and comparison with average loot to establish updated market-actual values of adventures.
Blebekblebek
25.02.12, 18:41
I was looking at this, but in the end, something fix like this probably isn't always going to work, because everything is depends on what player build/needs
and for starter, definitely not coins.
for example gathering fish might look easy, but actually is not that easy because long walk between resource>storehouse.
other example is gathering stone also look easy but same as fish, long walking.
water is cheap because it's not using building license, I bet it will rise if actually building it require a building license.
on market both almost had no price, but both is essential for the game, you can't make buff without fish.
fish & bread actually had to be higher because they are so important in this game, I refuse following the price based on calculator.
making bread require 4 different building to make, and the cost upgrading all building is same for everything except mines/water and not to mention time to replace all wheat field.
You misunderstand, this is not the prices anyone desire the goods to have, this is the prices that goods are actually being traded at, more or less. You can debate why its wrong all you want, but this is what you will have to pay for them on the trade tab.
Also, its not fixed, its being continously updated as the market shifts, its not a perfect reflection of the prices of course but better than the trade calcs.
Why are the adventures Outlaw, Sons, Witch, and Traitors prices so low?
Because people feel like they lose to much troops for the rewards they can get on these adventures. Wait for the update we are working on it will give some clarity on this matter (based on up-to-date marketprices)
Because people feel like they lose to much troops for the rewards they can get on these adventures. Wait for the update we are working on it will give some clarity on this matter (based on up-to-date marketprices)
Thank you very much.
I am looking forward to some more realistic adventure prices.
Most of my coins come from selling them and I like to be able to show people why I price them as I do.
I will be taking the sheet offline for a few minutes this evening (CET).
This action is needed for the promissed upgrade.
After the downtime I wont publish the new content instantly becasue I want to provide you with a bugfree sheet.
Untill then keep checking the sheets for up-to-date market prices provided to you by FWB.
Cheers
Nukar
Edit 19.00 CET Downtime has started be back asap
Edit 19.18 CET Up and runnuing again apart from 1 litle acces issue, wich has been fixed, all went well. thank you for your patience.
As promised we have just released our upgrade! I am very happy with what we have done, I hope you are too.
We have added more information to the buy_sell sheets.
1: Lootspot values. These are based on average lootdrops and current market values of the resources gained.
2: Unit cost. these are based on the needs to train a unit and current market values of the used resources
3: Adventure comparison tables based on loot and xp gained per lost troop.
We will attempt to show what the cost of using a specific tactic for an adventure will be and compare those to the rewards you can get in return.
In the first table we have combined the cost for lost units and the value of the loot you will get in return to rank the adventures and their tactics based on loot return.
The second table compares the amount of xp gained per lost coin.
Both tables are sorted from most to least profitable.
For most adventures we have included at least longbow and crossbow tactic maps. For some adventures we also included fast loot and block versions when we felt that their popularity warranted it.
The last table we included will show unit costs. This is the same table shown on the buy_sell tab. But here we have included an inside view on how we calculated the cost per unit.
As you can tell from this table all information shown is based on current market values. As market changes these tables change with it.
For those who aren't interested in more math, have a look now at [FWB] Goods and adventure price list (www.tinyurl.com/NFtrade)
If you want to know more about the calculations keep on reading.
We started with looking at the popular versions on how to play an adventure. We have derived a set of guides that suits current gameplay.
Adventure cost
We took those guides and noted needed units and expected maximal losses.
For every guide we used the "cost per unit" (show in adventures tab) to calculate the expected loss value per guide.
Example:
The 'Island of pirates' adventure, that uses Longbows and no blocking is expected to have a maximum loss of 610 recruits.
1 recruit is worth 2 coins based on current market values (rounded). For the adventure cost we did not use the rounded figures.
610 recruits * 2 coins would mean you will lose a maximum of 1220 coins on this adventure.
Since it is maximum you can expect your actual losses to be below this figure. Since we don't use rounded numbers for the adventure cost the table shows its 1201 coins based on todays prices.
Adventure rewards
We had some discussions how to calculate the rewards. Lootdrops are random. We debated min value, max value and ranges.
Min or max would give wrong expectations. Ranges would turn out to wide for everyone to make a conclusion. So we decided to take average lootdrop value.
This means we had to take all possible loot drops, their drop % and the current market value. From here we could calculate an average value for the drop for 1 lootspot per adventure.
We took the loot tables from the wiki our German friends created and worked from there.
Example:
For the 'Island of pirate' adventure lootslot #1 will look like this:
amount __resource__value___chance (%)
800______elog______350_____33.3
1000_____elog______437.5___16.7
700______gran______525____33.3
900______gran______675____16.7
((800*<market value>*33.3) + (1000*<market value>*16.7) + (700*<market value>*33.3) + (900*<market value>*16.7)) /100 =
((350*33.3) + (437.5*16.7) + (525*33.3) + (675*16.7)) /100 =
(11655 + 7306.25 + 17482.5 + 11272.5) /100 = 477.1625
slot average value (coins) = 477
We have calculated this for every single lootslot involved and added totals.
If an adventure has more then 1 lootspot we multiplied the totals to see total adventure rewards.
This formula is also the base for the "Loot value" column besides the Lootspot market prices in the Buy_sell sheets.
Adventure tab
Here we combined the outcome of the previous.
In the first table we set max loss versus average reward and calculated expected coin return per coin invested.
<reward>/<cost> = <coin gain per coin invested> rounded to 1 decimal
The second table we set coins invested versus total XP for the given guide to show XP per invested coin
<XP>/<cost> = <XP per coin invested>
So have a look:
[FWB] Goods and adventure price list (www.tinyurl.com/NFtrade)
There may still be incorrect references and errors in the calculations, send us a whisper if you think some of the data is wrong. Any feedback will be much appreciated.
Cheers ,
Stalk and Nukar
The updated adventure comparison charts is located on the 2nd page
This is awesome.
My guild will be happy to get this.
Good job.
Best price sheet on the forum.
It's a must for any new, or indeed experienced, player on this game.
Bookmarked!
Best price sheet on the forum.
It's a must for any new, or indeed experienced, player on this game.
Bookmarked!
Does this sound cheesy when it comes from FWB member? ^^
About the same level of cheesyness as refering to the numbers coming out of your ass as "research".
Okay, pretty nice, but there's one thing that's bothering me.
The column "Coin gained per coin lost" is nonsical. If an adventure would cost 100 coin and only have a loot of 1 coin, it would say that i gain 0,01 coin per coin invested, whereas I actually loose 99 coins, so I don't gain anything. If you really want a "coin gained per coin lost" column, the right calculation would be:
("coins gained" - "coins lost") / "coins lost"
However, all I really wanna know is profit, so you should just get rid of this column altogether and replace it with total profit.
I'm looking at the sheet hidden_reward_calculations, and it seems a bit off to me.
It's a bit hard to explain, so I'll just use the example of the adventure Mothers love.
The actual expected value of the adventure is in cell B28. This number is correct, provided that the numbers in cells B19:AG26 are accurate.
However, in cell G28 you multiply this number by the value of cell E28 (E28*B28).
Cell G28 is then used for further calculations. Either I'm completely overlooking something, or you're doubling and even tripling some of the adventure rewards.
Another thing I've noticed is that something the odds don't add up to 100%. For example U35:U38.
@Popvitsj
Thank you for your feedback. Ill try to explain why and how the sheets work as they do now:
However, all I really wanna know is profit, so you should just get rid of this column altogether and replace it with total profit.
We have discussed several options. At first we showed every number involved. This provided to much data to look at. It turned into a mess.
So we had to make a choice which number we wanted to show.
Raw coin profit (coins lost - coins gained) was an option. However it didn't fit with our ideas on how to visualize it. The way its set you can still see witch adventures make raw profit, those are > 1.
The actual expected value of the adventure is in cell B28. This number is correct, provided that the numbers in cells B19:AG26 are accurate.
However, in cell G28 you multiply this number by the value of cell E28 (E28*B28).
Cell G28 is then used for further calculations. Either I'm completely overlooking something, or you're doubling and even tripling some of the adventure rewards.
B28 = The value of loot for 1 loot spot.
E28 = The number of loot spots possible for this adventure.
G28 = the value of the loot for all loot spots combined.
Since we want the formula for all adventure to work in the same way we added a loot spot counter. Pending the number of player that can attend an adventure this number varies between 1,2 or 3.
The multiplier is need to get the total 'coin gained' per adventure.
Another thing I've noticed is that something the odds don't add up to 100%. For example U35:U38.
You are correct.
As I explained in the update post we used the German wiki to get the loot drop numbers. Those do not always ad up to 100%.
We tested the difference and saw the effect on the totals where neglect able. We also found that differentiation on the formulas made the risk on faults rise
To mitigate this risk we decided to keep all the dividers to 100.
Hope this answers all your concern.
If you have more questions or remark please feel free to keep posting them.
Cheers,
Nukar
PS for the future please edit your own post if your the last one in line. makes it easier for me ;)
I have gotten some questions about the sheet not working correctly. Sadly that is no something i can influance at this moment.
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Raw coin profit (coins lost - coins gained) was an option. However it didn't fit with our ideas on how to visualize it. The way its set you can still see witch adventures make raw profit, those are > 1.
Let me assure you, most people will not understand that <1 indicates a loss. Also, it's simply not relevant information. Just give me net profit/loss.
There is also a problem with the related column "Xp per coin lost". This is also not relevant information. The relevant version would be: "Coin won per XP gained" with the following calculation: (total coins gained - total coins spent) / total xp gained. In the case of adventures that cost coin you would be able to see how much you are paying for XP.
B28 = The value of loot for 1 loot spot.
E28 = The number of loot spots possible for this adventure.
G28 = the value of the loot for all loot spots combined.
Since we want the formula for all adventure to work in the same way we added a loot spot counter. Pending the number of player that can attend an adventure this number varies between 1,2 or 3.
The multiplier is need to get the total 'coin gained' per adventure.
Okay... so you're saying that if you do an adventure with 3 people the total loot will be 3 times as big. This is pretty weird actually but if it does work like this you should definately include multiple columns in your main sheet reflecting this. Don't forget many people may solo 3-player adventures. I've read somewhere that the XP does get devided equally, so all information should fit neatly into 1 table, looking something like this:
Adventure (Name, Troop cost, Loot, 1P profit, 2P profit, 3P profit, Total XP, Cost per XP)
I can see running a 3 player solo for the XP.
Why in the world would you not invite 2 more people in for an equal amount of rewards?
They only need 1 bandit kill to get a FULL reward.
Not doing so is throwing resources away.
People will pay gold to do this.
It is also great for lower level players in a guild to get a pile of resources they can sell.
Any level player can be invited. Need not be level 26.
One way a guild mate and I do it is to each start a 2 player and invite each other.
Then we kill one camp in each others adventure and solo the rest of it.
Double rewards for both of us :)
I agree with that SirRoy, but I think a lot of people don't know that the total reward is doubled/tripled if you invite other people (I for one didn't!). So just to make this clear I think it would be a good idea to put this into the sheet. I guess you might actually just put the profit columns for max players, but at least make a note somewhere that this profit is only true when the max amount of players are playing it.
Btw, I've spotted another little flaw:
You are using the price of bronze instead of bronze swords for your calculations. In cell buy_sell.Q5 and hidden_cost_calculations.D36, C8 and D8 should be replaced with C9 and D9.
@ Popovitsj
At this moment the sheets are ment to give information about your investments vs your rewards. If the formula is fully readable may differ per player, but think most will grasp the idea that it go's from best to worst (top to down). It still shows the same ratio.
But we will take your arguments into concidderation so who knows...
I do not think we will add guide like information. At this moment there is plenty of informtion here on these forums that can tell you lootsharing/ swapping is the way to go.
But im glad these sheet indirectly helped you towards that knowledge. :)
Btw, I've spotted another little flaw:
You are using the price of bronze instead of bronze swords for your calculations. In cell buy_sell.Q5 and hidden_cost_calculations.D36, C8 and D8 should be replaced with C9 and D9.
Cheers, it has been corrected!
We agree that a table combining loot and xp is useful. However we will implement this formula instead since most adventures have negative net worth and it will contain easier to read numbers.
Xp / (coins lost - coins gained).
This will show how much xp is gained per lost coin.
Your point about 1p and 2p columns is simply wrong. There is nothing interesting to be read from that. If you are soloing a three player adventure, you will be either swapping the additional slots, giving you the slots back eventually from other players and ending up with the total profit anyway. If you are cooperating with other players who will take the slots from you, we have to assume they will also be taking the proportional amount of losses.
Let me assure you, most people will not understand that <1 indicates a loss. Also, it's simply not relevant information. Just give me net profit/loss.
There is also a problem with the related column "Xp per coin lost". This is also not relevant information. The relevant version would be: "Coin won per XP gained" with the following calculation: (total coins gained - total coins spent) / total xp gained. In the case of adventures that cost coin you would be able to see how much you are paying for XP.
Okay... so you're saying that if you do an adventure with 3 people the total loot will be 3 times as big. This is pretty weird actually but if it does work like this you should definately include multiple columns in your main sheet reflecting this. Don't forget many people may solo 3-player adventures. I've read somewhere that the XP does get devided equally, so all information should fit neatly into 1 table, looking something like this:
Adventure (Name, Troop cost, Loot, 1P profit, 2P profit, 3P profit, Total XP, Cost per XP)
Yesterday we released a new version.
Most important change is that we included trends.
Now it will be easy for all to see what goods changed prices and if they increased or decreased.
Since this is a new feature and we are somewhat limited by the sheets options we are currently trying to find a balance in the trends.
For this to work and stay up-to-date we need to set a baseline of current prices on a regular basis. Our current challenge is to find a balance when to baseline. We are looking at 1x per day, 1x per week or every time we update prices. A new baseline will set all trends to 0 for that moment.
Any suggestions, with a reason why, will be welcome.
(note player time is involved so 1x per hour wont be a realistic option)
Furthermore we added an other guide and some bug fixes.
In the adventure tab we can see the consequences of price changes as we see more and more adventures (guides) get profitable. So keep checking those as well.
Edit:
Also included some usefull links in the adventures tabs
Maybe I should provide an easy to understand example.
Let's say I'm offered 2 investment opportunities with the following properties. I can only choose one. Which will you choose?
Investment 1
Initial investment: 100 euro.
Time until return: 1 day
Return: 200 euro.
Return per invested euro: 2
Investment 2
Initial investment: 400 euro.
Time until return: 1 day
Return: 600 euro.
Return per invested euro: 1.5
Please note that this is exactly the kind of decision we face in TSO, because you cannot play 2 adventures at the same time.
Yes this is how we work it out as wel.
you devide <profit>/<investment> = return
investment 1
200/100 = 2
investment 3
600/400 = 1.5
How is this different from what we do?
Take the top most adv in the list
losses (investment) = 2790
loot (return) = 6381
so our return per investment =
9381/2790 = 2.2870 = 2.29 rounded
So i dont see the problem you are trying to explain?
Please note that this is exactly the kind of decision we face in TSO, because you cannot play 2 adventures at the same time.
Yes you can play 2 adventures at the same time.
Darklite93
13.03.12, 17:06
I've just noticed that the cost of troops for dark priests far exceeds the loot value, y?
Darklite93
13.03.12, 18:56
Also could the loot value of all adventures be put in please
I've just noticed that the cost of troops for dark priests far exceeds the loot value, y?
With the current prices as base the value of the losses exceeds the possible profit.
Also could the loot value of all adventures be put in please
If you look at the adventures tab you will see the average loot value per adventure in column E "Loot coins". Here you will see average loodrop value based on current prices.
If you want to see loot value per lootspot you can look at the 3rd column for the lootspot prices on the buy_sell tab.
Cheers
Nukar
Also could the loot value of all adventures be put in please
If you mean market value of loot spots there isn't really an established value for sons, motherly, dark brotherhood, secluded experiments as these adventures are rarely played and even more rarely sold spots for.
I am sorry to inform you that google has some server issues at this moment.
If you have trouble reaching the sheets please be patient and try again after a few minutes.
Sorry for the trouble, but I'm unable to influence it at this moment.
Cheers,
Nukar
The sheets have been updated to latest prices.
The price of hardwood seems high compared to the price of longbows. It takes 16 hardwood to make longbow. Otherwise it's a very good pricelist!!
@Fejer,
Thank you for your input.
The prices we show are based on our combigned experience with the current market values. They are not based on needed resources but on what players are willing to pay for the goods.
The difference between longbows and hardwood planks can partially be explained:
1 Most players need much more HWP then LB.
2 Both items drop from adventures and do not have a 1 on 1 relation with the needed logs anymore.
Majikrider
04.04.12, 09:03
This is an invaluable aid to trading so thanks for all the hard work from all at FWB, obviously prices will vary with supply and demand and a players skill at negotiation, but these prices will help prevent people being scammed. Keep going guys.
By the way - this needs to be a STICKY, it keeps slipping down the list.
Still unstuck and still slipping.
Many thanks for the useful information.
Iron swords seems to low on the pricelist. tried buying but offering 80 gc and still nobody want to sell their swords.
Saraptheold
13.04.12, 19:03
Would be nice if easter eggs were added to the list to. People need to see this list because there are some on trade that keeps putting up some INSANE trades. I suspect that they are doing it to exploit that newer players are unaware what their goods are worth. This needs to be stickied, but for now.......
*BUUUUMP*
How come Copper Bars are not on the sheet?
Saraptheold
14.04.12, 18:12
How come Copper Bars are not on the sheet?
Did you mean bronze?:rolleyes:
We try to work out new additions like the lootspot-value for the new adventures.
And ofcourse the value of these new adventures theirselves.
It might take a couple of days till we have established a fair value for them.
Sounds good
** Buuuuuump **
why this is not sticky? New players in newfoundland can watch this price sheet so they will not get scammed.
buump*
edit*
Suggestion
Scamming
You guys accept trade, but he send wrong resources.
You send resources for gift item, but you never receive gift,but he takes resources.
You buffs his buildings but he buff "wrong buildings", or with lower buffs or buffing not at all.
Scamming is on progress if possible scammer, wont fix his mistakes.
People make mistakes and people want fix mistakes.
If someone send friend reguest and send ridicilious trade, its not
scamming, he tries to fool you. So dont accept random friend reguest.
Tip.
If you are buying gift from other player, you should ask people in trade channel, is this player trustworhtly.
Is not stupid to ask, is stupid if you get scammed
Can you guys add this on your site?
Past few days lots of people send possible scammers reports, how actually are not scammers.
Some kind of guideline what is possbile scammers before people charge other players to scammers without real reason.
So lets keep trade chat, best chat in The Settlers Online game in Newfoundland. /joinchat global-3
ps. if you guys dont mind, I added your price sheet link to my signature :)
@Killste
The whole scammer list is something that needs concidderation. And might need some rework.
But as it is i do not feel there is room to explain what and why on the sheets itself. The players there 'earned' the spot by multiple scam attempts. But i dont want to discuss it in thos topic. I dont want this locked.
But far more important:
VET guides added
Its far from compleet. If you have a guide that you feel needs editted to the list MAIL me ingame or on forums. Please do not post here (dont want a spam topic either)
For the link check below :D
cheers
Nukar
Finally
I had time to update the price sheets to include the new adventures! Prices will be added as soon as we have a fair idea of what they are worth.
As a basic idea you can already see the loot value column for the multiplayer adventures.
Having these added also means i have been able to add the new adventures to the compairing sheets. Well only to the VET sheet because i have only been able to find decent VET guides for those adventures.
Hope these new aditions awnser some questions i got lateley.
Cheers
Nukar
Dialecticus
29.04.12, 09:30
If judging by me a lot of people are checking this document without visiting the forum even once. I would add another player list, of those players that are "good" merchants, which add only 10%-25% to their selling price. People who want to buy something quickly could befriend players from the list and finish their purchase pretty quickly.
Can you please add the price of 1 piece of map?
@Exoul
Those are already on the list. We call them Map fragments.
one thing i'd like to see on the trade sheet would be an "average price" column for each thing, for example if coal is at 5 - 12 gold coins then the average column will be 8.5 gold coins
its nothing major just a little thing that would assist in working out what can be traded for what on the trade tab =)
Saraptheold
05.05.12, 06:56
5-12 is the average price. If you want fast trades those are the prices you ask for. If you have lot's of time you can ask for more gold or offer less gold and make a bargain, but if you want to sell, let's say, 3k coal in an hour, you sell at 5gc/stack when there are few people on server and 12 gc when there are lots of buyers.
What do you mean by "stack" in the price list, is that always 400?
Yes 1 stack is 400 units, max trade amount until BB implements the new trade feature.
Can you implement something that converts how much worth something is in something different as gold.
For example, I type:
400 | Horse | xxx | Sausage
"xxx" would be an empty cell that would automatically be filled in with the amount of sausages I would have to pay.(((priceHorse/400)*amountHorse)/(priceSausage/400)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av39-uto-SfddF9YU1h5Q1RyZXRyWVNGeXBTSllBRGc
It's directly linked to the "daily maintained [FWB] Goods and adventure price list (http://www.tinyurl.com/NFtrade)" made by Nukar :)
My calculations are made for 200pcs - half of the stack.
Can you implement something that converts how much worth something is in something different as gold.
For example, I type:
400 | Horse | xxx | Sausage
"xxx" would be an empty cell that would automatically be filled in with the amount of sausages I would have to pay.(((priceHorse/400)*amountHorse)/(priceSausage/400)
Sadly enough google docs will not support such a thing. But if you look at Robineks sheet you can find the numbers you are looking for.
Can you implement something that converts how much worth something is in something different as gold.
For example, I type:
400 | Horse | xxx | Sausage
"xxx" would be an empty cell that would automatically be filled in with the amount of sausages I would have to pay.(((priceHorse/400)*amountHorse)/(priceSausage/400)
Don't tell this to Nukar but I think he's just lazy!
Don't tell this to Nukar but I think he's just lazy!
uhm I claim to be busy.... not lazy :p
Very nice documents you made with trade help and adventures guides also.
I have problems when reading the guides in german, to know what units to use, can some one pleace make a simple translation just for the units used in combat. like
English recruits german ????? :))
thanks in advance!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av39-uto-SfddF9YU1h5Q1RyZXRyWVNGeXBTSllBRGc
It's directly linked to the "daily maintained [FWB] Goods and adventure price list (http://www.tinyurl.com/NFtrade)" made by Nukar :)
My calculations are made for 200pcs - half of the stack.
RATIOS sheet was unlocked - so you can quickly recalculate how much you can get (rows) for the amount you want to sell (columns).
Light blue background - you will get more.
Light green background - 1:1.
Light red background - you will get less.
Some of the adventure strategy map links (e.g. Hazimirs VtV and ES VtV) are broken.
Some of the adventure strategy map links (e.g. Hazimirs VtV and ES VtV) are broken.
Thanks, fixed. Any more than those two?
I felt I need to post something here. The sheet hasn't been updated for a couple of weeks now as you probably have noticed. Since it's all on free time we've had some issues with finding the time and motivation to keep it updated. Nukar is not online as much and it was too much for me to do it alone. New ideas for a possible automation will be looked up and also new people to maintain it. I'll let you know here when we feel it's properly updated again...
So, current prices aren't updated as they should be, just keep this in mind and we'll do our best to get it back on track, I know I miss it!
As of today the sheet is updated as it should again! http://tinyurl.com/NFtrade
could you make a sheet for Northisle? This is very helpful but would be moreso if it a copy was made for the other server! Thank you for your wonderful and time-cosuming work!
could you make a sheet for Northisle? This is very helpful but would be moreso if it a copy was made for the other server! Thank you for your wonderful and time-cosuming work!
The prices may vary from realm to realm enormously,
so i suppose you'd better get on it yourself.
could you make a sheet for Northisle? This is very helpful but would be moreso if it a copy was made for the other server! Thank you for your wonderful and time-cosuming work!
A while back I asked for trustworthy players from NI to provide me with price information. No applications. So no, not at this moment
NellaCocci
05.07.12, 10:22
Please, can you also put in this helpful paper watermills' and silos' prices? Thank so much :)
done :)
now to set prices on them.
I heard 12k gc for watermill.... but you see main voucher code for 7500 gc (which has watermill and silo & general & 500 gems and some gold) so i don't know weather the watermill seller was trying to rip me off or if the main voucher code is too cheap - what are others thoughts?
12k gc for a water mill = major rip off!
I thought so at the time nukar... good job i said on your bike! :)
Gammelbold
06.07.12, 13:16
ermmm.... perhaps this is not the right place to give a tip, but here goes.: I calculated that if you upgrade copper mines to lvl 5 and get a friend to add a 9 hour basket buff, the copper mine will become depleted within about 8 hours and you'll have earned double copper ore from it. :-D
Did you include the resources needed for upgrades etc in your calculations?
Cos to calculate the real profit you would need to deduct the upgrade costs.
:)
Hello all,
I have moved the active core from FWB to a new guild called "Old Friends". Look for us with the [O-F] tag.
We will continue hosting the price sheet udner our new flag. But be warned that the hosted adventure guides are outdated. As soon as we have more new guides matching the new pathfinding (and atleast slightly readable) we will updat those sheets as well.
Cheers
Nukar
PS If price updates are to slow, blame Andreen for not rejoining us yet ;P
Hello all,
We would like to give all (NFL) players a change to prove scammers. But the sheets do not provide the room it will need. So I have moved the "Suspected scammers" list here (http://friendsoftso.com/forum/smf_2-0-2_install/index.php?topic=37.msg57#msg57).
Do note: We will only accept scammers to the list if you provide us proof.
Cheers,
Nukar
I got mixed feeling about your adventure sheet.
1) Xp gained per lost coin ... its only based on unit losses and thats really poor... i mean it doesn't give you any final information is it worth to do the adventure after all. Its only about for xp gainers for those how don't care at all about gc, cost of the adventure itself, etc. Final though, "per lost coin" if so then adv cost should be included or it should be "per troop cost"
2) Coins gained per coins lost, 3x avg loostpot value ... thats not practical, u never got it for yourself but for general calculation its good enough.
Again you didn't include adventure value /cost itself, even if you got it for free u lost gc not selling it, so this chart is totally out of accuracy.
Now I've tuned it a bit (link bellow), so u can finally see some kind of relation which includes finall gc status (all losses and all gains) and its correlation to xp gained.
GC Score - loot value -troop value - adv value.
XP gained per gc lost - total xp gained per total losses (xp gained /(troop + adv cost))
Subjective total XP - ok here its tricky, we know how much you can gain xp per gc... but each surplus of gc gained on the adventure is added to this score. For example if the Xp gained per gc lost is 10, it is multiplied by each gc you gained on this adventure (lets say +100 is gc score), then subjective total xp is xp gained + 10x100. It simply means that each gc gained on this adventure can be converted to more xp on the same adventure in the future. You can buy the adventure or some troops for that, it somehow lowers the future gc need to finish the next one.
Xp ratio is simply relation of Subjective XP to XP gained on the adventure , the higher the score the higher the value of a adventure in general. Ratio of 1 means that the adventure is somehow neutral, you've lost the gc but you will get it back from the loot, so you've purely gained XP only spending time. Above 1 means you've gained xp for free and there is some gc left as a bonus. Below 1 means that you've actually lost coins on that deal.
If the ratio is 2.0 then it means that after selling the loot you can finish the same one in future for free!
Imo thats the most important information off all.
Put it to your trade sheets and you will see a pure price revolution, before it was just based on weird factors.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah1IROAYO155dG5wcFE3cm1zY1lEZjNuNko1Qmpye FE#gid=1
Well we had to pick some way to make a difference.
1) The XP vs coins lost. It stil shows wich adventures have a high or low XP revenue compaired to the effort.
2) How you get the adventure , for me is irrelevant. Cos as you said, you can buy or find it. Buy on G3, gems or even MF. That is in no way a measure for stable refference.
So we only included actual losses vs possible gains. Again its a way to compair. And as close a possible, with the randomness of the drops. Only this time based on coins instead of XP.
The lootspots are in fact valluable. Either you swap spots, or you sell them. The values are based on swaps. And to be honest (I did not confirm it by reworking your math) I doubt the sorting wil be much different. You only add the adventure price into the value. Wich for me is just an new random factor. The goal is to keep it plain and easy to follow.
So your assumption of whats weird isnt shared. Sorry :)
PS: your sheets are set to private
everybody values stuff different. So valuation has to be as objective as possible. The more random variables you introduce, the less transparent the valuation will be
Some will want to do high yield adventures, so lots of xp per lost troop and dont really care for loot- they will typically look for a nords to play due to the high ratio
Some want cheap xp, so basically high return on troops lost- so good quality loot versus limited troop losses, but mostly loot based- They on the whole wont value nords very high to play- typical nords gives high xp but mediocre loots and youc an do much better on other adventures, including the selling/swapping of the lootspot
If any change is needed to valuation of adventures, it would be to have both a ranking/valuation for xp verses trooploss and one for value of lost troops versus gained loot- that way people can pick and chose what they are aiming for and pick the right adventures for them (although most already know which ones these are, but tying in loot value with the price sheet gives a better baseline for the potential return on loots on a swap and hance pricerange that would be sensible)
Combining the two methods would imo just muddle the waters and not give the info that the two distinct group of players are looking for and adding the price of the adventure would just introduce another variable to complicate matters-
Indeed it was in private mode its now unlocked.
You assuming that troops cost is based of value of the resources needed to produce them, its the same with adventures. You are not getting them from the sky, you have to get it for gems, map fragments or simply buy in on trade channel. Getting what you want from explorer is a fairy tale so I don't even think about it as a real source.
This way you say that it doesn't matter if there was new adventure which will cost 10x the nords and have the same losses but 2x the xp gained, as far as xp/gc on your chart is 2 times higher its really worth it and thats just irrational. For that gc who somebody spends to actually buy the adventure he could gain 5 times the xp... that really matters. I didn't say your calculations are wrong and don't show anything... indeed it can give you some view.. but very limited.
The point is that basing on this chart almost all of the viewers can assume that nords is as good for profit as for XP and thats totally inaccurate.
To make my point I've put in comparison Nords and cheap as hell VtV, the only shortsighted advantages of finishing nords is actually few more xp gained at once, less units taken to the battle and possibility to finish it much faster. But if you consider that u need to spend 32 times more gc to buy it then attractiveness goes so much down. As far as attractiveness can be considered in many aspects this one more variable will make the view more complete and possibly some players will make a new look on the adventures they were playing so passionately.
It's all I wanted to say and to be honest I love the trade sheets for that adventure tab... i could get my bunch of vtvs and pirates almost for free thanks deflation ;)
Well, when we created the adventures list I had long chats with Stalk on what we wanted to be included and in what way.
The conclussion was:
There is more then one way to order the value of adventures. Your math is based on both coin value and XP, getting best of both worlds. At the same time you wont get the best of either.
We noticed the majority was either looking for the GC value OR the XP value. Not both at the same time.
We also noticed that people have a need to understand how the formula works. And no offence to anyone, the simpler the better.
As far as including the adv price go's i wil not include those:
A: To many options to obtain the adventures. No real value can be appointed. Unless you prefer coinvalue only.
B: It will make every single adventure less attractive. I know this isnt a real benefit. But its simply better to look at positive profits then negative ones.
(not to mention the extended maintenance ill have when prices fluctuate)
Do I think these sheets affected market values? Yes to some extend they did. They made it more clear to players how to value the variouse adventures.
Do I think these sheets dictated the values period? No people will find their own favorites no matter what. At best it just went a bit faster.
Do i think an other sorting order will affect market values again. Maybe, yes as long as ppl understand why this order exists. But most can look for adventures that score high on both tables by themselfs.
why was the suspected scammers list moved to a private forum?! =(
Hello all,
We would like to give all (NFL) players a change to prove scammers. But the sheets do not provide the room it will need. So I have moved the "Suspected scammers" list here (http://friendsoftso.com/forum/smf_2-0-2_install/index.php?topic=37.msg57#msg57).
Do note: We will only accept scammers to the list if you provide us proof.
Cheers,
Nukar
That's the reason its moved
why was the suspected scammers list moved to a private forum?! =(
3 reasons
1: Easier to maintain
2: it was growing to large for the sheets
3: easier to provide and for me to get proof if the can post it
as for the private:
a sign in should get you acces to that section
sold couple time son of the veld lootspot, around 650coins, what people are willing to pay
Not to mention BB does not allow slander in THIS forum.
Therefor you cannot name names of suspected scammers.
That's the reason its moved
Not to mention BB does not allow slander in THIS forum.
Therefor you cannot name names of suspected scammers.
it never has been on these forums :)
Hello! I really like your price sheet, but i was wondering when will you reset the trends again? Keep up the good work!
hmm yes time to reset em again.
1-8 will be a good date ill set a reminder
Thornapple
29.07.12, 12:27
you have the prices set as per stack what does this mean ??
a stack is the max tradable amount of 400 units
this does not work as well with sandycove due to the amount of gold floating about at the moment.new server so more new players .it may help bring the value of coins up which is all good.prices will settle as the server fills hopefully. good job though stalk :)
@codpolp
this is only aimed at the Newfoundland server. Because we do not play Sandycove we can not reflect Sandycoves markets.
Thornapple
29.07.12, 13:32
thanks :)
yep i appreciate that matey.i put that in case some of the sandycove guys didnt realise and got upset that the prices didnt match . have a great day :)
why not put in trade sheep up an fish refill and meat refill ,i think many would like to have them
i buy them from others
Nice tool quite usefull, however, I was thinking maybe to put a conversion part, I don't know if its possible to do it without affecting the original sheet, somthing like I put a resource and what is the direct convertion rate to another one, currently I manually convert the amount of coins
You can try my version:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av39-uto-SfddF9YU1h5Q1RyZXRyWVNGeXBTSllBRGc#gid=1
It's directly linked to Nukar's spreadsheet.
First sheet shows you ratios - all other shows you price for the half of the stack - 200pcs - so you can quickly estimate if the deal is good or not.
ProMinecrafter
23.08.12, 17:52
You can also put something like trade calculator which will calculate how many recources corresponds to other recources e.x. 400 coal is equal with 300copper ore.
We tried, but my skills with google docs wont alow me to make such a calculator ;)
any chance of updating the tradesheet guys? all i hear lately is 'that tradesheet is old' :( would be good to have it updated .. ty bb :)
any chance of updating the tradesheet guys? all i hear lately is 'that tradesheet is old' :( would be good to have it updated .. ty bb :)
Well the majority of players that have been helping out on the sheets are less active or quit.
I myself are not that active either anymore... for obviouse reasons...
So if players want to help maintain the sheets we will need feedback here:
Sheet feedback (http://friendsoftso.com/forum/smf_2-0-2_install/index.php?topic=34.0)
This does require a registration. So we can ban spambots
Nice job, but it seems there is something wrong with it. For instance Fir Wood and Fir Wood Planks appear as columns only, which messes all ratios up.
Thanks - fixed :)
is this better to move newfounland thread and put stickied in there, since this is price sheet for newfoundland?
NellaCocci
26.09.12, 21:46
Hi! I've seen that in g3 there are players who sell meat and fish refills. It would be great if you put also their price in the trade sheet. Thanks! :)
killedagain
28.09.12, 10:10
Cheers for making this, its helpful. Kudos to whoever put it together :)
Sheet update is on again. All prices are more realistic now.
It may need a slight renovation in the next few days, when new trade system is better accustomed and widely used,
Gold refills at least, seem to have risen in price. I've seen a few selling for 400gc for a 500g refill
Thanks for this sheet it keeps me sane, and makes rip off merchants so up like a new penny ..
I have updated prices to per 1k instead of the old stack (400).
The changes have a negative side affect on the adventure pages. As far as i can tell those are obsolete at this time. So i have hidden those untill i get time to rework them (if ever).
Note that the new tradesystem made the market bounce up and down. As soon as it settles (most likely after haloween) O-F wil try to get it back to track.
Can somebody please update the sheet, with the prise of Guild Coins.?
Hi thanks for a great tool, which give a good indication on where the prices are.
I do though miss the more special items, like love potions, cookies, roasted ducks etc.
Thanks for your effort
TitanBazinga
12.04.13, 11:06
Very good job. I was looking for something like that..
Keep up the good work!
I know its cheeky, but i noticed you put on the spreadsheet that a guild was recruiting. Any chance you could put 'Lost Souls' are recruiting? Thanks Cedrick3
Hi
Thanks for a fantastic sheet. :)
Could you please also add the new adventures "The Lost skull" and "Tropical Suns".
Thanks
Poetryboy
Hi
Thanks for a fantastic sheet. :)
Could you please also add the new adventures "The Lost skull" and "Tropical Suns".
Thanks
Poetryboy
Yes please, would help.... Buffs and other missing bits would be good too.... special buildings and decorative features etc.
Yes please, would help.... Buffs and other missing bits would be good too.... special buildings and decorative features etc.
Buffs like red flying settlers and exotic fruit basket would be nice :)
love the spreadsheet is a good guide to use as a basis to work out ones own price, would love to see deerstalker and angel gate add to it
Hey, thank you for this, I found it interesting, I am on Sandycove, so there might be a slight difference. Have been doing a lot of trading using this as a guideline and so far have found it very good, gives me starting and ending prices and I can then adjust them to suit. Much appreciated.
I would like to add that the buy price of coal can be changed to under 3 coins per 1,000 coal.
They can easily be bought at that low price. Even with small quantities like 1,000-5,000.
witch tower i see sells for 13000 upto 16000 have never seen as low as 9000
Bronze Swords 20c, Iron Swords 100c, Rec 0,8 value Mill 1,9. is this updated?
Dear Nukar, can you correct the price for friary ther´s missing a 0
Thank you for the great, helpful sheet :-)
BAAAHHHHHJJJAAA
24.08.13, 03:17
Something is not right with the LS prices, the cost of all weapons have risen and you have shown the cost of R, B, M etc all increased but the loot spot values have stayed the same ?
Can you correct this please
Something is not right with the LS prices, the cost of all weapons have risen and you have shown the cost of R, B, M etc all increased but the loot spot values have stayed the same ?
Can you correct this please
The weapon drop is actually a rather small component of the loot price. Low level adventures have a high % of granite drop, so their value correlates strongly with granite prices. 'Big' adventures like RB also drop gold (coins/refill) at a decent rate, and since spots are paid with coins, their price will have some friction in reacting to value changes of goods. What's more, buying weapons is more convenient than buying lootspots. You get exactly what you need, exactly at the time you need them when purchasing weapons from trade. It is this convenience factor that is also the reason why meat price can fall while deerstalker price is rising.
The cost of troops that are lost in the adventure will not impact the price of the lootspot, unless there is a server-wide quest requesting some particular adventure to be completed. The lootspot buyer doesn't care what it cost to you to play it - he evaluates the expected value of the loot drop and is only willing to pay less than that.
Considering that high level players are inclined to pursue the Epic Raids for bean collecting, there is also less demand for conventional adventure loots, as one can only get one lootspot at a time. So buying 1-2 Bean loots more means buying 1-2 BK/etc loots less. The sellers of such lootspots are therefore forced to sell for lower prices to raise the spot's desirability.
There's also a bit of psychology involved in lootspot pricing which makes the prices stick in a certain price bracket even when objectively, the value has shifted and another price bracket would fit it better. If you bought a BK spot for 800gc yesterday, you'll think "I won't pay 900 for the spot, I can get it for 800". In a similar manner, a seller will think "I sold a BK spot for 800gc yesterday, so I won't offer it for 700 as I can sell it for 800". Therefore, once an 'accepted' lootspot price has been established in the market, it will take more than just a marginal change in value of goods before the lootspot prices change.
BAAAHHHHHJJJAAA
26.08.13, 03:51
King Fero you don't really have much of an argument for this
The weapon drop is actually a rather small component of the loot price.
Not really the new prices mean that it cost 380gc more to do the adventure
The cost of troops that are lost in the adventure will not impact the price of the lootspot
But surely that must be taken into some consideration if an adventure.
Both Dama swords and Xbow have increased in price thus making the loot more valuable, and its not marginal 152 points and 210 points, likewise with granite that average sale of that now is 1.8gc per piece...yet the spot has never taken than into consideration.
There's also a bit of psychology involved in lootspot pricing which makes the prices stick in a certain price bracket
Again not really, when SE or Sotv are part of a quest chain i've seen them sold for twice the price.
there is also less demand for conventional adventure loots,
Yes but there will always be a demand for WT's, and the only way to obtain is in a DB loot spot. SE i can see why that wouldn't increase, even though it has in the last month, as a Gate doesn't increase your pop.
This still hasn't answer anything
Something is not right with the LS prices, the cost of all weapons have risen and you have shown the cost of R, B, M etc all increased but the loot spot values have stayed the same ?
Can you correct this please
Yes, something is not right if you are referring to the calculated loot spot values (the ones that are strucken out). These are not correctly adjusted.
Trying to sort it out, but can't guarantee anything. If you were referring to something else, please let me know.
Lega.
Many thanks for doing this spreadsheet and keeping it up to date(as best you can, but I know its hard).
I not only use it for trading but also evaluating adventures and loot spots.
I have my own spread sheet where I download yours daily (can't link to it on the web), I then feed your prices into a list of adventures to work out how much it would cost for the troop losses for that adventure and what the value of the loot is worth. I can then add in any loot spot sale price and assess the potential profit from each adventure.
Whilst I think this goes further that your spread sheet I do believe that automatic calculation of loot spot values could be added - all you would need to add is a list of rewards from each adventure and the calculations.
With all the selling of loot from the loot spots that have been sold recently resulting in a noticible drop in the granite price the average value of loot gained from a loot spot has droped quite a bit and most people now would be loosing out from taking loot spots.
I'm thinking an automatic calculation would be most useful.
If you feel this is a useful addition and want to contact me then please do, I can suply a copy of my list of rewards with the calcultions on to obtain the loot spot values. (its not fully complete, missing the fairytail adventure and a few event adventures, but its a good starting point)
P.S. to assist in my automation could you please use a decimal point, not a comma, in the price list. I have to change them each time I download your sheet e.g. the price for cannon is 1,5 - could it please become 1.5.
As a new player, I found this a great help in finding my bearings on the market. Thanks for making it public.
Recently have seen that it does have at least one inaccuracy (have seen Whips and Carrots at sale for 60 and not get sold), so made me wonder how you calculate the prices. Are they based on actual sales, which players then enter into the sheet?
Thanks again for a great tool!
FranjoTahy
10.11.13, 13:29
wheres the prices for Silo, Watermill, Friary, Deerhut....?
FranjoTahy
10.11.13, 13:31
Found it! :-)
Buying marble is compared to this file always heavily overpriced in the TO.
Cruisader11
16.01.14, 13:20
is this trade sheet is still updated?
Cruisader11
16.01.14, 13:20
alright its updated,question sloved
padster007
24.01.14, 18:44
i think it needs an update.
Dialecticus
01.03.14, 01:25
What's happened with titanium bar price? Those values can't be real...
What's happened with titanium bar price? Those values can't be real...
Some Epic Workyard upgrades cost titanium bars.
Can you please add the Whirlwind Adventure and Whirlwind loot spot to the sheet.
the trade sheet has been dead for a while now (updated last on 2014/03/14 and now is not being updated) is that ok, or am I looking at the wrong place?
Is it just me or is this price sheet totally inaccurate on purpose regarding the prices of eggs?
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1RtrsasRTBdHEzMWNQckN3N01nSHl6WkVGZjE3Z kE#gid=3
The eggs are definitely not 50 to 70 anymore yet prices dont seem to be up to date or refuse to be updated.
Is that on purpose by those who run the price sheet so that they get the most out of the deals?
Sounds like a little virtual corruption on the so called free market to me IF that is the case.
Dialecticus
08.05.14, 09:07
According to Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) it is more likely that the chart owners got bored or became occupied with something else than that there is something sinister going on. Determining prices requires continuous time and effort of several skilled players, and gives next to nothing in return.
They at least placed a very clear sign on the top: Currently not being updated.
It would be really great if someone could take over the sheets or create a new version. They've been a great help during my time playing TSO :)
There was another one, but that seems to be a month out of date as well:
Post: http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/23711-Newfoundland-Price-List/page2
Trade Sheet: http://tso.majordesigns.ca/EU1/price_list.html
https://en.tsomaps.com/price/ This gives the live prices
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