Making steel swords vs. buying them.

[LordBaldrick]

I wanted to clear my island before starting my actual weapon production, so I have bought all the weapons until now.

But now that I am halfway in setting up my productionlines, I am seeing what a costly bussiness it is.

So costly, that buying them is way cheaper than actually making them myself.

----

"They" are selling 400 steel swords for 200 coins.

To make 400 steel swords, you need;

6.400 iron ore

20.800 coal

6 days and 16 hours (lvl1 factory)

------

If I where to buy these materials as they are, I would pay much, much more;

These amounts of iron ore and coal can be bought for (and I am lowballing it here) as little as;

Iron ore 20 coins per 400 stack = 320 coins

Coal 6 coins per 400 stack = 312 coins

Not taking into account the production time here, or the effort for which you normally have to pay.

----------

So the point I am trying to make is; how on earth can these people sell those swords for so little money; when the production costs are so much higher??

Am I missing something here, or seeing something wrong?

[Tierarzt]

Production costs are not based on retail prices. It costs a LOT less to mine your own coal and iron ore.

[LordBaldrick]

Okay - I make my own ore, and my own coal.

I am going to sell it all inside a day instead of using it for production in 6 days.

I will use that money to buy 1200 swords.

You see what I am trying to say here?

[Tierarzt]

... and where will the Steel swords come from if everyone followed your example?

The current prices of Steel Swords reflects the supply and demand of the market.
If nobody made them, they'd be a lot more expensive.

[LordBaldrick]

If everyone read this, realised I had a point, and started to do the same, no doubt prices would rise, and bring them to a level where you have to start questioning again whether or not it is viable to start production up yourself again.

Right now it isnt, imho...

[Nylund]

So the point I am trying to make is; how on earth can these people sell those swords for so little money; when the production costs are so much higher??

Am I missing something here, or seeing something wrong?

I have steel swords and only time i use them is when i loose 185soldiers on VtV thats 1850swords, i dont produce any steelswords nor do i buy them, u get them as loot, and if u dont need them its tempting to sell them for 180c because 180c is a lot more usefull than a stack of ss.

[LordBaldrick]

I have steel swords and only time i use them is when i loose 185soldiers on VtV thats 1850swords, i dont produce any steelswords nor do i buy them, u get them as loot, and if u dont need them its tempting to sell them for 180c because 180c is a lot more usefull than a stack of ss.

I knew something was going on here - thanks for clearing that up for me..:-)

[King-Dazzer]

Have you taken buffing into account at all?

[Qualan]

it all doesnt matter much. You are still better off selling the coal and ore on the market and buy the SS on the whole. Use buffs on these will also increase yield and so gold coin on these. The whole issue with high(er) end weapons is simple- You mainly aim to lose recruits, then bow, then militia- trow in some cav if really needed.

So soldiers are pretty much last in line except some higher end adventures where you use em to ensure 1 wave of fights instead of 2 waves (esp when blocking)

Steel swords drop in many adventures as rewards- so economy wise: many SS in storehouses, few used compared to stocks and many people needing gold coin. Coin beats swords in storehouse so you sell swords cheaper than production cost- which you didnt pay in the first place. Many others think the same so demand is lower than supply and presto, prices drop way way below production cost.

It gets worse for xbows, damascene and cannon

[Sinister-King]

Anyone got a list of all the resources needed to make swords, cavalry cannons etc.

[Blebekblebek]

SS production is okay, but not IS and any Expert weapons production.

Bronze Sword & Horse is all you need (Higher lvl adv also need Bowman to reduce Recruit & Xbowman loss, some need Militia & Soldier to be meatshield because recruits can't do the job)

Most weapons people sold, they get it from adv, and most of time it's 1 time build (Once you've train Soldier/Longbowman/Xbowman) you will cherish it until they needed to sacrifice, not with Xbowman though.

trust me, you'll get more weapons by doing adv than produce it.

[LordBaldrick]

So it comes down to;

- In the end you barely need to make any soldiers at all.

- And if you do need to build them, the swords needed have been found many times over.


So they go to the market; pretty much making the whole steel(sword) making process obsolete.

Thanks for your input everyone; I like knowing why stuff is the way it is..:-)

[dnarag1m]

LordBaldrick,

This is one of the mayor flaws in Settlers. A large part of the buildings are superfluous in this game. Titanium smelter, Damascenesword smith, Xbow smith, the whole cannon chain. It's all a gigantic waste of money, since the demand for these items is limited (e.g. very few of them are lost once needed numbers are established to follow guides) and the supply [adventures] is outstripping any accidental losses.

A predictably frustrating game design, of which I do not understand how it ever got in place this way.

[StarCaller]

Well in my opinion its like this, because devs didn't rly cared about economy at all. Hmmm... that's even bad for them, because there is not much point to buy some of the refills in the Shop. Maybe in time they will realize that MMO is not the same as ordinary multiplayer and you have to take care in balancing things out. Andi have the feeling that they think that economy will eventually balance by itself. (Supply demand stuff) But I really doubt it. Every currency in the world most of the time has positive infilation (resources/wares price only increases), well GCs here have negative infilation (almost everything just gets cheaper) and the price drops doesn't seem to slow down... Thats just against everything what we are used to. Hmm I'm even curious will Marble/Hw stack prices reach ~3-5 GCs per stack :D

BTW I actually produce some swords but that's mainly to spend ores and so on. When I come to think about it I haven't tried to calculate if that would be more profitable to sell mats.

[SwampHen]

I've arrived at your topic having gotten sick of constantly replacing iron mines and coal mines that are only there for my steel weaponsmith. I agree with your conclusions, OP.

[fishslice]

Surely it depends upon how you play. I tend to have a couple of Level 5 iron mines that I drop fillers from adventures in and friends buff these - I let all other iron mines build to Level 1, deplete and rebuild. My SS are also Level 5 (needed for a side quest) and friends also buff the smelters and weaponsmith. I don't tend to have a problem with resources so I just let them crack on with churning out swords. Occasionally pausing the production if I want to regain some ore or coal (I hate having low stock).

In all therefore none of that costs me money - just the time taken to replenish mines and swapping buffs with friends which is also free. Ok, I admit I don't sell the swords I make, they just sit there gathering dust or rusting away until a friend needs some help. But that is my playing style and it works for me - it also helps that I don't need the building licenses (I have to many already).

so in summary, there are lots of different playing styles, some are active traders that buff their whole economy for maximum profit, others that are high level and sell everything they get from adventures and never use, others that trade all day in currencies other than coin - some people that make steel swords for instance don't mine ore but buy it or buy steel bars as it may be better for them.

I'm not sitting here thinking why don't I sell the resources for other coins or resources. Its called having a balanced economy - the main thing is find a playing style you enjoy and have fun rather than stressing about where that next lump of coal is coming from.

Cheers
fish

[SwampHen]

Thanks fish. That makes sense. I think as a lower player level (level 39) short of licenses (and lacking iron refills!), the steel sword chain takes many resources and licenses that could be better directed elsewhere. Even though I have four geologists, I feel like I'm constantly (every other day) sending them out for iron mines and coal mines. It is starting to feel tedious, especially because those two resources take longer to rebuild. Waiting for a coal mine to build is like watching paint dry.

[fishslice]

SwampHen, I agree the 2 hour search time is horrendous in trying to keep coal in place. A great suggestion is get as many jolly geos as you can (on Newfoundland they cost 300gems or about 1500 - 1800 coins if gifted), get recyclers when they are event awards and upgrade the recyclers as high as you can. Coal seems to be one of the basics that many people are short on so creating a surplus is a good steady income stream of coin or other resources and although it has become rather cheap on our server is much easier to buy sell than many other resources.