View Full Version : Four Winds Quest
They could have to prevent the luck. do like Find 600 Granite or complete it to or 3 times or complete this and that quest. so even if you are unlucky then you have another option instead of MAYBE have to do it 6 times.. as i mentioned earlier.. i have a guildmate that now 6 times tried to do the quest without luck.. right now hes considering if he want to try a 7th time
They could have to prevent the luck. do like Find 600 Granite or complete it to or 3 times or complete this and that quest. so even if you are unlucky then you have another option instead of MAYBE have to do it 6 times.. as i mentioned earlier.. i have a guildmate that now 6 times tried to do the quest without luck.. right now hes considering if he want to try a 7th time
That would be a great idea. I finished my fifth Bandit Nest yesterday without a hint of granite. I just can't justify eating greater losses at this point, so I'm out. If there was an upper limit on how many times you have to do these rare, expensive adventures, that would at least mean you were working towards something. At this point, I'm no closer to finishing the quest than someone who just got to the part with Bandit Nest.
Bigmanontop
06.03.13, 10:39
Omg am on my 7th Motherly love and still no granite and at 328 cav losses a time.
Thankfully i have also had a few lootspots but still nothing.
Tbh am lossing the will to even log in now 8-(.
Update from me - I eventually got granite on Motherly Love adventure - after 11 attempts
Not bad for whats supposed to be a 33% chance!!!!!!!!
Yay! :P
Whizkeyjack
06.03.13, 11:14
What is expected is not to have quests based on luck! Why can you not understand that this is what is annoying people and preventing completing the quests? Telling them to shut up about it or to quit the quest is not helping. These quests have been very badly designed and players are quite within their rights to voice their complaints about it.
You mean those 5-6 people who instead of playing, they come here an complain all day? They can't take a challenge? Because, my friend, where I come from nobody is having any problem with them. And remember : there are thousands of players who enjoy these quests! Think about that, maybe these quest are not so bad, huh?
You mean those 5-6 people who instead of playing, they come here an complain all day? They can't take a challenge? Because, my friend, where I come from nobody is having any problem with them. And remember : there are thousands of players who enjoy these quests! Think about that, maybe these quest are not so bad, huh?
Where you come from? I hope you're not talking about the server as whole because there's lots of us that have plenty of issues with it. My guildleader did ML 11 times before he got granite. I took a few of his lootspots and I didn't get granite either. If I were trying to continue the chain, there is no way I could have done half that amount to try to complete it.
You mean those 5-6 people who instead of playing, they come here an complain all day? They can't take a challenge? Because, my friend, where I come from nobody is having any problem with them. And remember : there are thousands of players who enjoy these quests! Think about that, maybe these quest are not so bad, huh?
Every forum needs a court jester and with your comments youve got the job! A lot of us are taking the challenge head on but being held up by something that is not in our power, getting granite in loot drops! It's our fault that we cant get granite from numerous drops? Someone even reported that they got 0-6 on bandits nest for granite, Is that guy not taking up the challenge?
Try and be constructive with your comments by offering help or suggestions or dont bother posting! I guess u hit granite first time? bully for u!
Hey guys, I can see this is getting heated, can we please remain on topic without personal attacks
Thank you
You mean those 5-6 people who instead of playing, they come here an complain all day? They can't take a challenge? Because, my friend, where I come from nobody is having any problem with them. And remember : there are thousands of players who enjoy these quests! Think about that, maybe these quest are not so bad, huh?
Your attitude is so strange to me. "Complain all day"? The most active people in this thread have written what, 10 posts? That's maybe 20 minutes spent in total writing posts, over a period of more than a week. Even if people were spending a significant amount of time complaining about this, why does that bother you? People think this event was ill-considered and badly balanced. We're fielding rational, coherent arguments to the same effect.
Getting personal, and saying it's about whether we can take a challenge is not only childish, it's also ridiculous. There's nothing challenging or difficult in doing the same adventure over and over again. But the game is about economy management, and at a certain point, you have to realise that it's a waste of resources. I can only shake my head at your suggestion that this is some personal deficiency with those of us who are unhappy.
Regarding the "thousands of players who enjoy these quests" - what am I supposed to say to that? I can just as easily invoke thousands of unhappy players who just don't feel like complaining. You have no proof of this claim, so it's completely devoid of value. Even if you were right - even if lots of players did like the quest, that's barely relevant to the discussion. The quests could - and should! - be better regardless.
You mean those 5-6 people who instead of playing, they come here an complain all day? They can't take a challenge? Because, my friend, where I come from nobody is having any problem with them. And remember : there are thousands of players who enjoy these quests! Think about that, maybe these quest are not so bad, huh?
Where I come from (game development) we have known for more than 25 years that having a critical path game element based on luck/chance is bad game design. It's not a challenge, it's random luck.
The higher level quest chains have far too much random chance involved in them and are therefore very badly designed. If you can find a game designer who thinks luck should play a part in critical path game design, then I will show you a game designer who is wrong. :) These quests are badly thought out and I knew to avoid the mistakes they've made more than 25 years ago - that's how bad they are. I've been reviewing games for print magazines since before the original Settlers came out and I am here to tell you that the quest chains are badly designed. Have a think on that, eh? :)
And the luck aspect isn't new to the game as some are suggesting.
You are right - every single reward drop is about luck. However, never before has a quest been dependent on a specific thing being acquired from a specific adventure reward drop. (Plus don't forget this is compounded by the 2 week time limit so that a limitless number of adventures cannot be done.) The luck aspect IS new to completing quests - and it's a bad idea.
Also, don't forget that not everyone will have checked the forums and seen the full list of quests ahead of them. Think how those people will/do feel when they've already committed a lot of time and resources to the quest and only then find out that it's random as to whether they will be able to succeed. In your example the player knows at the start what they are letting themselves in for, but with Four Winds it is highly likely (particularly at the start of the event) that they had no idea of this and therefore will feel frustrated and a little cheated that they spent time and resources on it.
It might be just my simple view on the matter, but I don't think BB made the quest so every player would be rewarded greatly. It's a challenge you can have a crack on and stop if it looks like it isn't worth it. And the luck aspect isn't new to the game as some are suggesting.
Who's suggesting that?
Regarding your SE example, you're citing broken game design to justify bad game design. If you look at the way quest rewards are done, it's clear that titanium, saltpeter, crossbows and damascene swords are supposed to be very valuable. Look at how quests that pay out titanium or saltpetre pay out way less than ones yielding granite, and how if you get crossbows or saltpetre as a reward for logging in many days in a row, you'll get tiny amounts compared to what you'd get in gc or granite.
Every experienced player has pondered this dillemma at some point. Unfortunately, BB miscalculated when they created the adventure system. Since recruits are so cheap, and really not that much weaker than their more expensive counterparts, we use them for everything. This means that we never sacrifice anything more expensive than cavalry or soldiers, which in turn means that demand for crossbows, cannons and damascene swords is extremely low. Since we got more of them as rewards from adventures than we'll ever use, they lose all their value. Which in turn means that saltpetre and titanium are worthless resources. They're incredibly expensive chains to establish and run, and they provide you with a resource everyone already has in excess.
The upshot of this long, convoluted chain of logic is that adventures are not supposed to be gambles. The higher level adventures giving saltpetre and titanium is supposed to be a reward. Unfortunately, it's not. If the game had been designed better in this regard, that wouldn't be a gamble either. The fact that lootspots have a risk of giving you garbage is a mistake. It cannot possibly justify the bad game design of the Four Winds quest.
lv 47 four winds done. needed 6*ml loot spots and 3 SA loot spots
lol, i am so lucky to be in 36-45 group, with no ls possibilities and two rare adventures. yay
Get in! Ok I just found granite on my 5th bandits nest! I had to break the awful run and heres how, After my 4th run I decided to take a couple of LS for dark priests and it seems to have worked, call it luck or not so I suggest anyone who's trying continuous bandits nests with no joy try a diff adventure (obviously a cheap one so it dont drain even more of your resources). It may work unless u have even worse luck than me and thats saying something!
I thought I was particularly unlucky with only wood on loot after on my 3rd try. Let's spend some more precious map fragments on useless adventure....
Level 41 - completed all parts of it and got the mill and the gems. It's difficult, but also doable. Took me a week.
Level 41 - completed all parts of it and got the mill and the gems. It's difficult, but also doable. Took me a week.
So how many attempts did you have on Bandit nest for the granite?.. ofc any thing is doable if you got the resourses to rebuy it all the time or if your lucky with the drop
Zteelblade
07.03.13, 08:25
On the other hand i'm happy that they added a challenging quest line with great rewards. On other hand half of the challenges depending of the randomness is not very good idea in my opinion. I imagine the frustration for those few unlucky doing their bandit nest (or equivalent) loot spot for 10th time, while some others getting away on 1st try.
And this quest line trying to make use of "junk" resources is not solution to the problem itself, but at least it makes some use for those resources.
I got few quest phases left still, but it has been some nice challenge. I hope i can make it. Level 49 here.
Get in! Ok I just found granite on my 5th bandits nest! I had to break the awful run and heres how, After my 4th run I decided to take a couple of LS for dark priests and it seems to have worked, call it luck or not so I suggest anyone who's trying continuous bandits nests with no joy try a diff adventure (obviously a cheap one so it dont drain even more of your resources). It may work unless u have even worse luck than me and thats saying something!
During the final attack I had one finger up my nostril and was standing on one leg humming the national anthem and I got granite, so you guys all know what to do.
The quest line is not making use of the 'junk' resources (I am L50) but forces you to built unneeded expert buildings. Nobody in his right mind is going to built an xbowmaker and wait 1h10 for each xbow.. What BB needs is to open up L50+ change the expert buildings so that they can produce the next level weapons and create new troops for which the weapons CAN"T be found.
i made them for the level up quests we get so far all i have left to make is a powder hut and the cannon forge thing which i will do.
but all my xbow maker. titanium ore smelter, wheel maker, carpenter and dama swords makers sleep constantly unless they are needed for quests or if i run low on stuff like xbows or dama swords,
i also have 4 exotic sawmills from choice as getting granite hard as i only get it if luck in adventures so takes a while to save up
but so far im on the SA part of the quest so it is do able if you follow the quest line ect as you leveled up
I've noticed a lot of complaints from lvl36+. BUT NONE from lower levels. Could it be that the quest-chain is doable on 16-25/26-35, but not on higher levels.
I, personally, am on lvl35 (as of right now), have only 1 subquest left (1 week still to go), and I wonder:
When done, can it be started anew? It's fun on lower levels. That 'Find granite in treasure-search' and 'Get x amount of granite in loot' is, of course, a little bit hard. But the Pirate Isle and Dark Priests are somewhat easy to obtain.
1 who likes this very, very much!!!
I'm lvl 38 and have wasted a lot of troops and resources on quests so far... Just finished Bandit Nest (don't have a Veteran, so it was quite an expensive adventure), and didn't get granite... I really thought I could get this finished in time, but now it's game over for me... With map fragments prices now, there is no way I can buy 200 more to give it another go... especially in given time frame... I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to make a quest chain that depends solely on luck, but he's a real genius...
I managed to do the 26-35 version of the quest. I was lucky. I get hardwood from the explorer right away, I needed only 2 tries on Pirates and I got granite with first try from Dark Priests. There were few things I didn't like about the quest. The luck part on those adventures is the worst. Also getting those insane amounts of iron swords basically made the server economy go crazy and I would have not been able to do it without help from higher level guildies. So in general good idea and it would have been a fun quest series if there wasn't those luck parts. I really didn't want to celebrate too much when I finished the quest when one of my guild members was looking for his 6th Bandits Nest.
After a dear guildmate of mine sold me 200mf at a very good price, I decided to do a sixth Bandit Nest. And what do you know? I got Exotic Wood!
On the bright side, two of my guildies got their granite on their first go at it, so it's not all bad. Good luck to everyone!
When all quest are finished, you dont get new onces ?
Whizkeyjack
07.03.13, 13:03
When all quest are finished, you dont get new onces ?
We finished it and we didn't get any new ones.
During the final attack I had one finger up my nostril and was standing on one leg humming the national anthem and I got granite, so you guys all know what to do.
Im guessing u didnt get granite then? awwwwww unlucky! Jog on.
During the final attack I had one finger up my nostril and was standing on one leg humming the national anthem and I got granite, so you guys all know what to do.
What national anthem was it? I don't want to risk doing the England national anthem to find I've done it wrong.
During the final attack I had one finger up my nostril and was standing on one leg humming the national anthem and I got granite, so you guys all know what to do.
I will never wash my lucky nostril again! :D
What national anthem was it? I don't want to risk doing the England national anthem to find I've done it wrong.
Which national anthem doesn't matter, but I forgot an important detail. It has to be the middle finger, otherwise it won't work. Sorry for all you guys that tried and failed, but now you know why.
Same here 0/4 on Bandits...managed to get 400 titanium ore 3 times in a row (11% chance)...1 in 751 chance of that happening. Then again, I generally get granite 1 out of 10 adventures which is below average. Goodbye Fart Winds or whatever it is called...
Whizkeyjack
07.03.13, 16:52
We had a guy who was really angry that he couldn't find the resources for days. Then today he did found them. Chat went CAPS :D
So ye, it seems these quests can get on your nerves, but when you get it, love is in the air again ^^
RocketKing
07.03.13, 17:40
Can I do it again? Please, please, please. It was fun.
400 titanium ore, 1000 hardwood, 800 steel swords, 1600 horses,500 bread, 300 gold coins, 9880 exp
First and last attempt on Bandits Nest.
This event took way too much of my time and resources, and i couldnt even go half way throu.
Next time i see similiar one - i delete it straight away.
Thanks.
Antilochus
07.03.13, 18:45
I'm a bit bored (and a bit sad), so I've decided to list the chances of failing to get granite on bandit's nest:
Chance that 1 attempt failed: 67%
Chance that 2 attempts failed: 44%
Chance that 3 attempts failed: 29%
Chance that 4 attempts failed: 20%
Chance that 5 attempts failed: 13%
Chance that 6 attempts failed: 9%
Chance that 7 attempts failed: 6%
Chance that 8 attempts failed: 4%
Chance that 9 attempts failed: 2.6%
Chance that 10 attempts failed: 1.7%
Chance that 11 attempts failed: 1.2%
Chance that 12 attempts failed: 0.8%
Chance that 13 attempts failed: 0.5%
Chance that 14 attempts failed: 0.34%
Chance that 15 attempts failed: 0.22%
I'm going to stop here, by this point you'd have killed yourself in a fit of depression (at the chances, not my post.. well maybe my post.. )
Note: No matter how many times you've failed, your next attempt still has the same chance to succeed as the very first. The chances to succeed do not increase after each failed adventure.
Guild mates came through again. Missed the granite again. 7 failed attempts at this point. 6% chance isn't flat out impossible, but it sure isn't likely. Still, confirmation bias and all that.
I'm a bit bored (and a bit sad), so I've decided to list the chances of failing to get granite on bandit's nest:
Chance to fail with 1 attempt: 67%
Chance to fail with 2 attempts: 44%
Chance to fail with 3 attempts: 29%
Chance to fail with 4 attempts: 20%
Chance to fail with 5 attempts: 13%
Chance to fail with 6 attempts: 9%
Chance to fail with 7 attempts: 6%
Chance to fail with 8 attempts: 4%
Chance to fail with 9 attempts: 2.6%
Chance to fail with 10 attempts: 1.7%
Chance to fail with 11 attempts: 1.2%
Chance to fail with 12 attempts: 0.8%
Chance to fail with 13 attempts: 0.5%
Chance to fail with 14 attempts: 0.34%
Chance to fail with 15 attempts: 0.22%
I'm going to stop here, by this point you'd have killed yourself in a fit of depression (at the chances, not my post.. well maybe my post..
)
i alredy kill my self at 4th attempt !
Stoothefirst
07.03.13, 19:41
I got the granite on 2nd attempt so it is possible.
Guild mates came through again. Missed the granite again. 7 failed attempts at this point. 6% chance isn't flat out impossible, but it sure isn't likely. Still, confirmation bias and all that.
ooh that's not strange at all. 6% is a pretty big chance actually. It means if 100 people are trying, you'de expect it to happen to 6 of them. So with lots of players trying, it will happen to some of them. And it just happens to be your guildmate. Bad luck, but on 1 unfortunate case you cant tell if the chances are different or if it's really just bad luck.
And the change we hear about it is a lot bigger then 6%. People who have lots of (bad)luck tell it to many more people then the people who experience nothing strange. And bad experiences are told to even more people then good luck. So yeah, it would be strange if we wouldn't here from the unfortunate fellows.
Say you're on a birthdayparty. If one of your friends went cycling last week and had 2 flat tires, it's almost guaranteed you'll hear about it and how extremely unlucky he was. But how often has someone said to you "well what happened to me yesterday.... I went cycling and came home without a flat tire. That's sooooo normal!". Chances are several people heard the first story, and noone ever heard someone telling the 2nd much more common event. The rare events really stand out, but you dont realize how often nothing weirds happens. (almost all the time actually. Look out the window, anything out of the ordinary happening? No?)
Antilochus
07.03.13, 20:44
Look out the window, anything out of the ordinary happening? No?)
Weird.. my next door neighbour is humming the national anthem stood on one leg with his finger up his nose :s
Day 10 of 14 on my german server, and the explorers have still not found any granite!
Day 10 of 14 on my german server, and the explorers have still not found any granite!
as I mentioned much earlier on this thread, its possible to not be able to complete this adventure on the first quest if luck isnt on your side.
Its really disappointing, hopefully they will set a maximum number of attempts for future quests as its ridiculous!
The sad thing is, that although there is a small chance to get no granite in seven runs, it doesn't improve your odds in number eight, although eight in a row is even rarer. Anyway, good luck to them who are still trying.
I'm a bit bored (and a bit sad), so I've decided to list the chances of failing to get granite on bandit's nest:
Chance to fail with 1 attempt: 67%
Chance to fail with 2 attempts: 44%
Chance to fail with 3 attempts: 29%
Chance to fail with 4 attempts: 20%
Chance to fail with 5 attempts: 13%
Chance to fail with 6 attempts: 9%
Chance to fail with 7 attempts: 6%
Chance to fail with 8 attempts: 4%
Chance to fail with 9 attempts: 2.6%
Chance to fail with 10 attempts: 1.7%
Chance to fail with 11 attempts: 1.2%
Chance to fail with 12 attempts: 0.8%
Chance to fail with 13 attempts: 0.5%
Chance to fail with 14 attempts: 0.34%
Chance to fail with 15 attempts: 0.22%
I'm going to stop here, by this point you'd have killed yourself in a fit of depression (at the chances, not my post.. well maybe my post.. )
Sorry, but this is also wrong. Your chance to fail on the second attempt, and all following attempts, is exactly the same as on the first attempt.
If you flip a coin and it comes up heads 10 times in a row, the odds of the 11th flip being a head is still 50%.
Probability is a nightmare! :)
i know several that have finished the tasks for the under level 35 but only one that has completed above level 35.
i am only at task 5 and it is very slow going. I do hope that the odds are "ever in our favour"
the chance you fail the x-th time indeed still is 67%. But he listed the chances you fail x-time in a row.
If you start now, the chance you wont get granite in 2 chances is not 67% but as listed.
the chance you fail the x-th time indeed still is 67%. But he listed the chances you fail x-time in a row.
If you start now, the chance you wont get granite in 2 chances is not 67% but as listed.
Sorry, but it's not. :) No matter how many times in a row you do it, just like the toss of a coin, the probability of the outcome remains the same. Every time you do the adventure, your chance of getting granite is 33%, whether it is the first time or the 100th. That's just how probability is. Being unsuccessful 99 times would still mean you had a 33% chance the 100th time.
You're reading it wrong Bob.
The change you no get granite the 3rd time is 67%
The change you no get granite in 3 tries is .67^3 = 29%
That's what the list says. The adventures dont have a memory, so every time you have the same old chance. But of course the chance you find granite eventually changes. The chance you find granite with 1 try is not the same as the chance you find granite in 100 tries.
You're reading it wrong Bob.
The change you get granite the 3rd time is 67%
The change you get granite in 3 tries is .67^3 = 29%
That's what the list says. The adventures dont have a memory, so every time you have the same old chance. But of course the chance you find granite eventually changes. The chance you find granite with 1 try is not the same as the chance you find granite in 100 tries.
It doesn't work like that - the probability zeroes on every try precisely because, as you point out, the adventure has no memory. There's no change in the probability because there's no link between the adventures. Calculating the odds on falling to find granite 10 times in a row would be a far more complicated equation that considered far more than the stated drop rate - we don't know the precise details of how the code allocates rewards and even the drop rates are open to question.
This is why I said about probabilities being a nightmare. Many people have lost fortunes in casinos thinking that it's impossible or even hugely unlikely for red or black to come up 10 times in a row. At best the list is misleading because it suggests there is an increase in likelihood of getting granite on each try, when there isn't.
if the drop-rate doesn't change after a couple of failures, or with level (and as far as I know, that's not the case)... that's all that matters. What else do you want to include, the price of crude oil or the weatherforecast?
The list states the chance you still havent found granite after x-searches, when you start with 0 searches. Workd fine, it's really not a complicated formula at all.
Take the coin. Now how big is the chance you get side B 3x in a row? Yup .50^3 = 12.5%
throw it 100 times. That gives you (statistically) 50 * B as first throw
From those 50 throws half of them give a B the 2nd time -> 25
from those 25 throws half of them gives B agin -> 12.5
Ooh see, 0.50^3 =12.5% :)
if the drop-rate doesn't change after a couple of failures, or with level (and as far as I know, that's not the case)... that's all that matters. What else do you want to include, the price of crude oil or the weatherforecast?
The list states the chance you still havent found granite after x-searches, when you start with 0 searches. Workd fine, it's really not a complicated formula at all.
Take the coin. Now how big is the chance you get side B 3x in a row? Yup .50^3 = 12.5%
throw it 100 times. That gives you (statistically) 50 * B as first throw
From those 50 throws half of them give a B the 2nd time -> 25
from those 25 throws half of them gives B agin -> 12.5
Ooh see, 0.50^3 =12.5% :)
I think we're just debating presentation here - as it was presented, the list gives the impression that the more times you try the adventure the greater your chances of success.
As for the drop rate - do you know how the coding decides what rewards to drop? We've been given these percentages, but where did they come from? I'm not saying they are wrong, but as you'll well know it only takes a small change in these numbers (or the method of choosing drop rewards) to completely alter the results. :)
(Just to be clear, I'm not questioning your maths at all, just the way this list was potentially giving false hope to those who might have failed many times already.)
BobLurker,
Giving false hope is creating a quest chain to get a watermill and gems when you complete it but then making it so some quests require luck to complete and then setting a two week time limit...
bandits number 2 gave me titanium ore
lets see what bandits number 3 brings...
Great Qwests loved them
Droprates can be a pain but we all knew that wenn we started this chain and been lookking in to given info wich was easy to find on forum. There's people in guild who didnt started as they assumed they would not be able to finish last adv. granite drop qwest. Others bite the bullit and Play Surprise attack several times not such a problem wenn you team up and lev50ies team up with a non 50lev theres nice exp to gain.
Nice work BB keep us going and give us moar of this great rewards and great guild bonding mini events
Antilochus
08.03.13, 00:59
(Just to be clear, I'm not questioning your maths at all, just the way this list was potentially giving false hope to those who might have failed many times already.)
Hmm the list is factually correct. If people misread it as false hope well... as your example suggests, the same people will misread it in the casinos. So it's probably a good thing that they're learning about it here than at the betting tables :) I'll edit it with a disclaimer.
Edit: Actually yes, I can see how the wording I used could have been misleading. I've changed it :p
Great Qwests loved them
Droprates can be a pain but we all knew that wenn we started this chain and been lookking in to given info wich was easy to find on forum. There's people in guild who didnt started as they assumed they would not be able to finish last adv. granite drop qwest. Others bite the bullit and Play Surprise attack several times not such a problem wenn you team up and lev50ies team up with a non 50lev theres nice exp to gain.
Nice work BB keep us going and give us moar of this great rewards and great guild bonding mini events
the level 36-45 quest chain involves getting granite from single player adventures, I'd buy loot spots if they were two player to increase my chances of hitting granite.
Antilochus
08.03.13, 01:05
On another note, I just finished the questline :) Level 40 but I was lucky to get granite on my second bandit's nest.
Bambo_0cha
08.03.13, 01:42
....I just finished the questline :) .....I was lucky to get granite....
Same here, 3x Motherly Love 1x Suprise Attack :cool:
I am startin to think that settlers is trying to rip us off........ done this stupid adv bandits nest 7 times and no granite just exo logs..... i dont think its possible to get granite... then again out of the last 2 months at doing about 3 adv's a day... i have only gotten granite twice and thast it......
speedydust
08.03.13, 07:00
Finished four winds! If gems were out as reward it wouldnt be worth doing it.
Nice quest.
Nice quest? Principle of the quest is based on the random generator. Stupid player to do it with happiness, but good player with no luck no chance.
Bandit nest 7/0 (3 wood and 4 titanium???).
Whatever idiot thought this with random awards from adventure gonna be fun-well it isn't and is killing everything I liked it this game.
BB should keep that guy(s) out from development of game because it was a "really good" job done...
Droprates can be a pain but we all knew that wenn we started this chain and been lookking in to given info wich was easy to find on forum.
The people who have read this thread would know, but the vast majority of players would not have. The quest only revealed the next stage on completion of the previous one. Not everyone thinks to read a forum for this stuff and it shouldn't be necessary to in order to enjoy the game. For all the recent events we have seen too much reliance by BB on the forums to spread information and not enough coming directly from BB to each player. In this instance I hope BB learns the two important lessons - 1. Don't have luck involved in completing a quest. 2. Make sure ALL players know the size of the challenge they are facing before they commit a lot of resources to something they can't win.
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 09:21
The people who have read this thread would know, but the vast majority of players would not have. The quest only revealed the next stage on completion of the previous one. Not everyone thinks to read a forum for this stuff and it shouldn't be necessary to in order to enjoy the game. For all the recent events we have seen too much reliance by BB on the forums to spread information and not enough coming directly from BB to each player. In this instance I hope BB learns the two important lessons - 1. Don't have luck involved in completing a quest. 2. Make sure ALL players know the size of the challenge they are facing before they commit a lot of resources to something they can't win.
You're wrong here Bob. When you got drop rate, you will have luck. Combining the quest with luck and put a timer on it (that's still missing, I might add politely) it's the ultimate challenge we, bored people could get! And BB made is sure to be accessible to the other levels.
Some tips on how to stay positive :
- Play with friends
- Invest in new things, even if those things are expensive. You will need them eventually.
- You get a Guild and make a social thing out of it
- Make use of the trade
Understand:
- This quest is a tad different
- There is luck to this, but you need to think and plan the stuff. It's not easy.
- YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT
ooh that's not strange at all. 6% is a pretty big chance actually. It means if 100 people are trying, you'de expect it to happen to 6 of them. So with lots of players trying, it will happen to some of them. And it just happens to be your guildmate. Bad luck, but on 1 unfortunate case you cant tell if the chances are different or if it's really just bad luck.
And the change we hear about it is a lot bigger then 6%. People who have lots of (bad)luck tell it to many more people then the people who experience nothing strange. And bad experiences are told to even more people then good luck. So yeah, it would be strange if we wouldn't here from the unfortunate fellows.
Say you're on a birthdayparty. If one of your friends went cycling last week and had 2 flat tires, it's almost guaranteed you'll hear about it and how extremely unlucky he was. But how often has someone said to you "well what happened to me yesterday.... I went cycling and came home without a flat tire. That's sooooo normal!". Chances are several people heard the first story, and noone ever heard someone telling the 2nd much more common event. The rare events really stand out, but you dont realize how often nothing weirds happens. (almost all the time actually. Look out the window, anything out of the ordinary happening? No?)
I really appreciate you explaining grade level maths to me like I'm an idiot. I know what a percentage is. I understand statistics - I just literally mentioned that this was more likely to be confirmation bias than any foul play on the part of the game.
Also, your "we hear about the outliers" spiel is correct, but completely irrelevant for my case. I myself experienced these 7 failures. I didn't hear about them from anyone else. Explaining to me that this isn't as unlikely to happen as I'd think because I'm more likely to hear about it when it happens is nonsense when it just happened to me.
Thanks for the lesson nonetheless. Maybe tomorrow you can teach me how to ride a bicycle.
Invest in new things, even if those things are expensive. You will need them eventually.
This is pretty close to being the worst advice you could offer anyone playing TSO. Don't ever invest in anything because you might need it in the future. Even the most advanced buildings can be built in about an hour - there's no reason to prepare production chains, tying up building licenses in useless workyards.
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 09:32
I really appreciate you explaining grade level maths to me like I'm an idiot. I know what a percentage is. I understand statistics - I just literally mentioned that this was more likely to be confirmation bias than any foul play on the part of the game.
Also, your "we hear about the outliers" spiel is correct, but completely irrelevant for my case. I myself experienced these 7 failures. I didn't hear about them from anyone else. Explaining to me that this isn't as unlikely to happen as I'd think because I'm more likely to hear about it when it happens is nonsense when it just happened to me.
Thanks for the lesson nonetheless. Maybe tomorrow you can teach me how to ride a bicycle.
Jeez, drama queen is on.
Jeez, drama queen is on.
Bad advice and name-calling? Keep the quality posts coming!
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 10:07
Bad advice and name-calling? Keep the quality posts coming!
I'm sorry, I didn't know that telling people to stay positive and try working together with others in a SOCIAL game is considered as bad advice in your book. And pointing out attitude it's not name-calling.
I'm sorry, I didn't know that telling people to stay positive and try working together with others in a SOCIAL game is considered as bad advice in your book. And pointing out attitude it's not name-calling.
Telling people to build useless buildings surely is bad advice. And saying I'm a drama queen is surely not far removed from calling me "poopoo head". I agree that working together is a good idea. I don't agree that this somehow exonerates Four Winds from the design issues it has.
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 10:29
Telling people to build useless buildings surely is bad advice. And saying I'm a drama queen is surely not far removed from calling me "poopoo head". I agree that working together is a good idea. I don't agree that this somehow exonerates Four Winds from the design issues it has.
Considering you and the other designer professionals, this whole game is flawed, but yet, you all are playing it.
Keeping the above in mind, you will never be happy about the game, but don't blame us, the players who are still enjoying it, with your constant negativism and professional feedback. Keep that to the SUGGESTION forum.
Thank you.
I really appreciate you explaining grade level maths to me like I'm an idiot. I know what a percentage is. I understand statistics - I just literally mentioned that this was more likely to be confirmation bias than any foul play on the part of the game.
Also, your "we hear about the outliers" spiel is correct, but completely irrelevant for my case. I myself experienced these 7 failures. I didn't hear about them from anyone else. Explaining to me that this isn't as unlikely to happen as I'd think because I'm more likely to hear about it when it happens is nonsense when it just happened to me.
Thanks for the lesson nonetheless. Maybe tomorrow you can teach me how to ride a bicycle.
This is pretty close to being the worst advice you could offer anyone playing TSO. Don't ever invest in anything because you might need it in the future. Even the most advanced buildings can be built in about an hour - there's no reason to prepare production chains, tying up building licenses in useless workyards.
Ok let me try to explain this in really easy words.
This is a reaction on a forum. Forum is an old words, much older then you are. Even much older then your parents or your grandma! It comes from the old greeks, where a forum already had the meaning of a public space where everyone could exchange ideas. Not just the highly educated, the wealthy or the powerfull, nope everyone. Even you could have joined!
So now we know that is a forum. That means other people can read too, and they might like a little explanation of statistics. It is a difficult topic for lots of people, and there are also young people on this forum who havent learned about statistics at all.
If you want to adress someone in person, a forum is not a good place. You can use other ways of communication. Direct messages, or a phone. Yup yup, really.
Last thing: It's not really possible to tell before if other players are educated on the topic of statistics. Even if they're utterly brilliant, they still can struggle with topics really easy for much less brialliant people. So I had not really a way to tell EctoRune was in idiot (or not), but a picture is slowly developing.
You're wrong here Bob. When you got drop rate, you will have luck. Combining the quest with luck and put a timer on it (that's still missing, I might add politely) it's the ultimate challenge we, bored people could get! And BB made is sure to be accessible to the other levels.
Some tips on how to stay positive :
- Play with friends
- Invest in new things, even if those things are expensive. You will need them eventually.
- You get a Guild and make a social thing out of it
- Make use of the trade
Understand:
- This quest is a tad different
- There is luck to this, but you need to think and plan the stuff. It's not easy.
- YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT
Wrong? No. I was exactly right. :) I don't know who you think you are giving advice to, but it's really sweet if you think it's me. That has made me chuckle. I'm sorry you don't understand how luck should have no part in a game or quest's critical path, but perhaps a friend can explain it to you sometime, since clearly you haven't understood it here, despite a lot of very basic explanation. Still, you seem happy, so that's fine. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. :)
Sinister-King
08.03.13, 11:03
Hello!
No more bickering please, we've all seen enough.
Thank you,
Sinister-King
- YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT
How can someone know he should not do it if this whole brilliant quest line is based on luck? It seemed doable even at level 38 and without any fast general till i got tit ore fourth time from bandit nest.
I am giving up now.
SettlerPiter
08.03.13, 11:27
During the final attack I had one finger up my nostril and was standing on one leg humming the national anthem and I got granite, so you guys all know what to do.
And this realy works! I had one finger in my nostrill and was singing "Deutschland uber alles" when clicking for adventure loot. It gave me granite, settlers and gold refill :D
BTW - is was 3rd try.
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 12:09
Hello!
No more bickering please, we've all seen enough.
Thank you,
Sinister-King
Explain this to those who think they're in the SUGGESTION forums. I want to enjoy reading a good topic, and not be called ignorant cause I'm having fun with an on-line game.
Ok, failed the Bandit's Nest ( got 1100 exotic wood, 1000 hw planks, 2*1600 horses, 500 beer and 300 coins). Well, i have 60 map fragments and no more Bandit's nest adventures, the price on market is asking 20-30 coins per map fragment or 8000 granite for Bandit's nest adventure, so no way for me to get another attempt on this quest.
(swear words skiped as per request of Sikister-King. Each can add their own versions at will)
You're wrong here Bob. When you got drop rate, you will have luck. Combining the quest with luck and put a timer on it (that's still missing, I might add politely) it's the ultimate challenge we, bored people could get! And BB made is sure to be accessible to the other levels.
Some tips on how to stay positive :
- Play with friends
- Invest in new things, even if those things are expensive. You will need them eventually.
- You get a Guild and make a social thing out of it
- Make use of the trade
Understand:
- This quest is a tad different
- There is luck to this, but you need to think and plan the stuff. It's not easy.
- YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT
Whizkey, we get it, we really do. You love this quest chain. For you there is nothing unfair in doing 11 Motherly Loves before you get granite, even though those adventures now cost upwards of 500gc on NFL. There is nothing frustrating and pointless about dropping 10k of granite on buildings that you neither want nor need, and don't really work to boot. We get it.
But insulting other players and acting like you're the one in the right and we should all shut up is getting you nowhere. I have less and less respect for your posts.
Whizkeyjack
08.03.13, 14:03
Whizkey, we get it, we really do. You love this quest chain. For you there is nothing unfair in doing 11 Motherly Loves before you get granite, even though those adventures now cost upwards of 500gc on NFL. There is nothing frustrating and pointless about dropping 10k of granite on buildings that you neither want nor need, and don't really work to boot. We get it.
But insulting other players and acting like you're the one in the right and we should all shut up is getting you nowhere. I have less and less respect for your posts.
I won't be sorry cause I got tons of friends and a proper guild where we help each other and have fun. It's not frustrating, you know, we play a game to enjoy and not to be in constant agony of paying too much for a building.
But I do respect people who do. But those people are not you guys.
I didn't insult anyone (if you referring to "drama queen", that's not an insult, it's a reaction), and I'm sorry to say, but I couldn't care less about you respecting my posts, no offense :)
So, again :
Work with your friends
Work with your guild
Find ways to complete the Four Winds without losing too much.
Given that we're on the same server I would be more than happy to help you! Just tell me what you need!
Sinister-King
08.03.13, 14:13
Whizkeyjack,
That is enough.
Official warnings will be issued to anyone who continues or instigates anymore arguments.
Each player has their own views, lets respect that.
Sinister-King
franciscraven
08.03.13, 15:55
I enjoyed trying the quest chain but without some luck their was no way I was going to finish this. I'm level 31 right now and got this quest while I was level 28 and I have to say this was going to be really really hard for someone of this level to do alone. At level 28 I was just about to clear two of the last three sectors of my home Island so I still only had 115 building licences and less than 600 population cap (3 weeks playing). I finished clearing the two sectors and I got as far as mission Island of the Pirates but got wood instead of granite, at over 500 recruit losses and 350 gold to buy again. Never mind i still have the next more expensive adventure to finish6 after that I had to give up. If i was perfectly lucky and spent all the gold I have and then some more I don't have this might just be possible still. However I think I am better of clearing my home Island, getting to level 33 (+10 licences) and preparing for the Easter event.
The Level 26-35 mission can be done but if you are level 26-30 when you get it luck will play a big role. I mean can you imagine someone who just hit level 26 getting this mission! You have four home sectors left to clear, very little population or buildings available and you get a mission that if you are perfectly lucky will cost you over 1100 units and min 500 gold. Bearing in mind you still can't build soldiers yet.
That said I enjoyed trying and it was exciting and forced me to change my plans and build, change and optimize my buildings to help hit the goals.
Would agree with the general sentiment cut down on the luck factor, if 50% odds of hitting the resource you should only have to try twice and then you get to move on. Barring that good fun.
Hey guys! Looks like we get another week of this, check out this update here (http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/22924-International-Women-s-day-Crisis-Quest-Update)
Stoothefirst
08.03.13, 16:19
Yup, 7 more days to complete. Only real potential stumbling block for me now is the old friends loot for stage 10.
Nettopp_naa
08.03.13, 16:20
As if a week more should help?
I've already cancelled it.
Good luck (for luck, and lots of resources) is what this quest is all about.
Btw, the roses will be given to my Asmapabe, Lexidh, Skravla & Lomiodien on this day :D
As if a week more should help?
I've already cancelled it.
Good luck (for luck, and lots of resources) is what this quest is all about.
Btw, the roses will be given to my Asmapabe, Lexidh, Skravla & Lomiodien on this day :D
That's lovely of you. :)
franciscraven
08.03.13, 16:49
Another week! I'm going to keep trying in that case.
Juhana_III
08.03.13, 16:59
Yeah already cancelled it. Oh well.
Anyway, if there is some need to get players do Outlaws repeatedly, wouldn't it make more sense to have them do it 3 times instead of having a 33% chance of completion? I can imagine it being utterly frustrating for someone who gets no granite at the 10th attempt or so. I personally thought 'screw it' when it failed the first time.
yeah..like some (most?) ive cancelled that quest, and making it last longer by a week, wont make it rain granite from adventures..so you can as well extend it by a year..
franciscraven
08.03.13, 18:34
Cheer up, on the bright side they listened to the players and extended it.
MuffinMule
08.03.13, 18:39
I won't be sorry cause I got tons of friends and a proper guild where we help each other and have fun. It's not frustrating, you know, we play a game to enjoy and not to be in constant agony of paying too much for a building.
But I do respect people who do. But those people are not you guys.
I didn't insult anyone (if you referring to "drama queen", that's not an insult, it's a reaction), and I'm sorry to say, but I couldn't care less about you respecting my posts, no offense :)
So, again :
Work with your friends
Work with your guild
Find ways to complete the Four Winds without losing too much.
Given that we're on the same server I would be more than happy to help you! Just tell me what you need!
Ok, get the devs to put granite back into the game.
11 days with 5 explorers going full-time, before one of them finally coughed up 10 granite. That's just to complete Stage One!
At this rate, I'll still be doing the adventure section at Christmas, praying for a random loot drop to go my way.
so bb have added a week to the quest still glad i kicked it after 2 days not like them to back down still no good to the high level player all that granite to build buildings and never use
good one bb
Lord_Dircus
08.03.13, 22:56
5 times i've failed to get Granite on Bandits nest now. 3x exotic logs and 2x titanium ore. It would be nice to complete this soon as i was enjoying the quest chain. Its getting boring now.
I played a lot of games but it never happened to me... I could not finish the event. Motherly love titan,titan.... neverending story.
JUST2Quick
09.03.13, 09:27
And this realy works! I had one finger in my nostrill and was singing "Deutschland uber alles" when clicking for adventure loot. It gave me granite, settlers and gold refill :D
BTW - is was 3rd try.
Well i'm now 6 Bandits Nests down and still no sign of granite. I've tried humming the national anthem with one finger up my nostril but it hasn't helped. So i'm now going to grow a beard and not shave until the granite arrives!
Just going out on number 7 now...
JUST2Quick
09.03.13, 09:28
Oh, the pain of it all... end it now.
extended time joke ;)
How many players end this game?
depression
Big joke daily quest Complete The dark brotherhood. ;D
Nashius-Maximus
09.03.13, 10:19
I think i'm done with this game..
Like anyone up-there cares but this last event shows nothing but contempt for the users. Difficult quests are enjoyable but ones that test patience by being repetitive and vastly resource consuming seem purely done to stimulate the economy to such an extent that it can only be done with real-world revenue creating in mind and not for the enjoyment of the players. Not to mention quests where the outlay dwarfs the reward.
Do the developers play the game? Do they know whats fun? Doing one quest over n over to use up map fragments and gold that's fun aint it? Do they think that forcing players to make hundreds of useless troops is a fun quest? or just one that consumes time and resources their database shows as under used?
I've never played an online game, and I've played many, where every event is ineptly thought out and so poorly rewarded. Where the Developers are so hands off they willfully ignore questions and problems behind a wall of indifference... and when they do accept some responsibility with a belated 'sorry gift' it's always buried behind statements of 'it was mostly user fault.. you didn't understand which is also your fault'.
I think i'm walking away now.. and that's after sticking around for a year of daily play.
Bandit nest 10/0 (5 woods and 5 titanium)-looks impossible, but it really happened.
After that, I basically destroyed my island, sold out everything that is sell-able for nothing/I guess it was feeding frenzy today at the market/ and I'm leaving this game for good after I burned bridges/ships behind me.
Again-great job BB guys-I enjoyed this game, spending time and money on it because it was just relaxing and fun for me after hard day job. And this event quest really killed&bored it all. I'll find some something else to do, but this was enough for me...
I was here around half a year playing almost every day and there is no more. I have nothing else to write-only to repeat what I wrote few day before:
"Whatever idiot thought this with random awards from adventure gonna be fun-well it isn't and is killing everything I liked it this game.
BB should keep that guy(s) out from development of game because it was a "really good" job done..."
Ende.
JUST2Quick
09.03.13, 14:17
Finally after the 7th attempt at Bandits Nest I came home with 700 Granite which does indeed complete the quest. I was worried as i though twhen it said 600 i might fail as i had more than that but panic not.
I can also neither confirm or deny that standing on one leg with a finger up your nostril and singing "Deutchland uber alles" helps but i was in fact doing this after humming "God save the queen" during attempt 6 did not work. It might be worth a shot.
Anyway, now i'm off to make 10000 Musk buffs and give away 10000 Hardwood planks - great fun!
Wreckless-
09.03.13, 14:30
Hey, I've had to play Motherly 5 times before I got my granite loot. And guess what, I didn't loose one minute of sleep over it.
I don't understand how people can claim this quest "ruined the game" for them. You could have decided not to play it no?
And now with Surprise, I messed up a block and it will take me 2 days to rebuild, using drill plan and these very expensive atm.
Guess what? I can cope with that. [ Censored ] happens, in real life and in this game.
If you can't deal with a small setback in this game, how are you coping in real life?
And I really don't like that we got an extra week. It was perfectly do-able time. Even with a bit of bad luck.
So I suggest you give a nice statue to the people who do finish it in the original time frame.
So I suggest you give a nice statue to the people who do finish it in the original time frame.
Och no comment. Many people ever to finish.
Motherly ONLY 5 times. Lucker.
Well good for you. Shall we throw your party now or after you're done?
I know somebody who has done 4 Surprise Attacks and still had no granite. Those adventures cost him 7k, btw. Enough for 2 silos/watermills.
The quest chain is not mandatory, and as a few ppl have already commented - the amount of resources you would need to expend to complete the chain would more than pay for a silo and a watermill - so why are so many of you moaning about having to do these quests? I for one am enjoying having something a little different to do rather than grinding out quests until I hit 50. The only thing I had issue with is the very tight schedule for completion but BB have sorted that.
Thanks BB for trying something different and taking onboard some of the constructive criticism. Surely this is what being a beta game is about? Finding what does and doesn't work?
The quest chain is not mandatory, and as a few ppl have already commented - the amount of resources you would need to expend to complete the chain would more than pay for a silo and a watermill - so why are so many of you moaning about having to do these quests? I for one am enjoying having something a little different to do rather than grinding out quests until I hit 50. The only thing I had issue with is the very tight schedule for completion but BB have sorted that.
Thanks BB for trying something different and taking onboard some of the constructive criticism. Surely this is what being a beta game is about? Finding what does and doesn't work?
People aren't moaning about having to do them, they're saying that the chain leaves a lot - too much - to chance. A chance your explorers will bring back granite. A chance you will receive granite from an adventure that cannot be brought back by your explorers, and for the lower levels has no lootspot to buy or sell to help each other out. The economy is completely ruined by greedy people who think they can sell Surprise Attack for upwards of 5k, or a lootspot for 3k. And all this right before the Easter event to drain away all those carefully accumulated resources.
Personally I'm tired of the people who like it insisting that everyone else should either do the same, or not have an opinion. I don't see the negative posts shouting people down. And now they've extended it for another week. My joy is unconfined.
And we want new content ... we wait patiently for it ... then we get this drivel. And extending the timescale, though it will undoubtedly help those who have decided to do it, is no answer. Given another week I may have decided to try it, too late now. Far better to getr these things right at the start .... try thinking it through properly next time?
I finished the quest a few days ago - did bandit's nest 2 times and Old friends 3 times.
(btw the chance of getting granite in OF is 44% and not 61% as it is written on the first page of this thread)
Finishing did not bring me any satisfaction. On the contrary - I stopped playing after that.
For me, everyone is loser with this quest line - people who managed to do it and people who didn't.
I got too sick of watching the prices of the adventures on the market
and the frenzy of people offering BN for 1300-1500+ gold coins and old friends for 700-800-1000gc.
I haven't played the game since I finished the quest line.
I got in today just to rebuild 1 or 2 fields - and decided to build the big reward - the water mill.
Got the message "Server zone crashed". And I haven't been able to log in since.
From what I read in the bugs section - the water mill might even be gone the next time the game lets me in.
Ironic, isn't it:D
PS: Some suggestion - such a questline should either not have a deadline or not have a requirement to get a specific reward from an adventure.
PS: Some suggestion - such a questline should either not have a deadline or not have a requirement to get a specific reward from an adventure.
I totally agree with that.
So this quest chain is only good for low level players is what I'm reading....
Yes I had to do ML 11 times to get granite which was hard and not appreciated but have completed the quest and thanks for the opportunity to do something different BB. I appreciated it - although I would appreciate the raising of the level cap more ;-)
you guys aint gonna like this bandit nest done first attempt old friends done first attempt , got me a watermill and 500 gems thoroughly enjoyed the quest chain thanks bb :D
Antilochus
10.03.13, 04:40
(btw the chance of getting granite in OF is 44% and not 61% as it is written on the first page of this thread)
It is actually 61% since you get two loot slots that both have a 37.5% chance to give granite. 1-(1-0.375)^2 = 0.61
dazzerw1970
10.03.13, 09:02
After looking at this thread because my 4 scouts have failed to find 30 granite for the last week, Im really grateful to dialecticus for the complete list of payments you need to complete this rather silly chain. I shall now be abandoning it as i dont want to build the entirely useless damascene sword maker and titanium smelter at a cost of 7.5k granite just to get a few gems and a couple of buildings i can buy from trade a lot more cheaply.
It is all about state of mind-
You don't need to buy adventures at inflated prices on the market- You can just buy fragments fro some and buy em in shop or play the adventures to get the follow up adventures. You have time if you just focus yourself a bit. I am playing WOTS for the OF adventure as i refuse to pay the 1k prices asked in TO and used MF for BN. Quest is still worth it for me, else i would have trashed it long time ago.
And now that the duration is 1 week longer, getting the follow up adventures yourself is really no problem anymore unless murphy and sod conspire against you.
Yes- if you want to run through the qustline in 4 days or so and end up buying everything for inflated prices etc you will get frustrated- but although the questline is not perfect and can be improved upon, it isnt that frustrating that it should cause people to quit over it- There is more at play than the questline when u quit- like other things you dont like and/or your own state of mind and actions re the questline
It is actually 61% since you get two loot slots that both have a 37.5% chance to give granite. 1-(1-0.375)^2 = 0.61
My bad - did not realize that the 8 kinds of loots are not equally probable to get.
Nettopp_naa
10.03.13, 10:26
Dear BlueByte.
What I would like to see is the statistics for this quest chain after the allotted time is up.
It would be nice to see how many who started it and how may that canceled it during each step, and lastly how many who finished it.
If possible divided into the different level.
It would also be nice if all the players could get a short end report, summarizing your experience of this quest chain, and what your conclusion is for more quest chain(s) in the future.
Till I hear from you in this matter.
Yours
Nettopp_Naa
Hall of Aasgard
As a Level 50 player i have no intention of doing Surprise attack three or more times to get my silo or watermill. I know one player in my guild who managed to get it done, but he wasn't and EOC yet. Most of our others didn't really bothered with it. Why should i waste 1500 or more mapfragments for 3 SA's which gives me bad loot and no XP when i can just do a bunch of Dark Priests or SFTR and sell the lootspots??
mrfatalerror
10.03.13, 11:13
This Four Winds quest is build to force people to pay real money. It's ok, BB has to make money.
The difficulty of quest makes nonpaying people upset. But who cares, right?
Sad ... .
I need less luck to win the lottery than get granite from Bandit Nest. I have started the 9th Bandit Nest today. Not for the loot, for the "fun" . :)
I feel very different for the event than most posters here.
I would like to thank BB for this quest chain. For me it was very much fun and brought some variety to the game. Especially since the stuff I needed to do was different from the stuff usually done. The only concerns for me were the amount of luck involved and the chosen levels for my bracket 36-45. The difficulty level was okay for people like me on level 43 but the players near levels 36-39 are struggling especially if they are unlucky with Bandits Nest. Doing it is a major stress to their economy let alone buying the necessary map fragments or doing it multiple times. Same goes about old friends which has inflated in price. What's worse they are both solo adventures so they cannot cooperate or ask for help. Also if you are unlucky on any of the quests requesting specific resource it can jeoparize getting the chain done within time limit (not as big issue now when the event was extended).
So maybe next time you could:
1) divide the 36-45 bracket in half around level 40.
2) think carefully about the luck factor.
I would like to thank BB too much fun. Today I finished the 4x Old Friends and the result is the loss of 1360 R, 260 Cav, 370 LB, 370 B, 80 S and granite anywhere. Only EW and saltpeter. Much fun.
edit: 11.3. next old friends (5) - 2x slot EWs ... no comment .. 61% chance?
edit2: Today, mission accomplished ... thankfully ...
Done the quest and completed it in a week like at lvl47, needed 2 swaps on SA for it (so a total of 4 SAs), rest were first timers.
To the ones complaining about the titanium smelter and the damascene swordsmith.... errmm, there are other quests and sidequests doable after you build them each granting their own rewards (more or less satisfactory), so they aren`t built only for this questchain.
The titanium smelter (produce 170 titanium bars) has another 2 quests in More units quest chain = own a titanium smelter and produce 400 titanium bars.
The damascene swordsmith (produce 20 damascene swords) has 2 other too: own a damascene swordsmith and produce 300 damascene swords.
well, I'm level 45, been trying to get granite off bandits nest, 4x and nowt, spent 6000 gold on getting the adventures, no map frags. pretty cheesed off now.
Boldogar77
10.03.13, 21:55
I'm done with this game. BB.
I see lots of pp bashing BB
Doing qwestchain is a choice!
No granite after after 10 or even 20 adventures is that news?:confused: You started qwestchain knowing the risks,buying a watermill and silo shall be cheaper for most people no1 said is was easy.:rolleyes:
Building "useless" buildings? good way of loosing those titanores and ewl from all those granite lacking adventures.:D
You made a CHOICE by starting qwestchain dont come crying on forum if you fail :mad:
Its a game lighten up you made bad choice it happens,grow over it or go play a discgame with cheat option:cool:
;)yay for BB smileys
(happilly providing stocks,mapfrags and adventures for daring gmates)
I think i'm done with this game..
Like anyone up-there cares but this last event shows nothing but contempt for the users. Difficult quests are enjoyable but ones that test patience by being repetitive and vastly resource consuming seem purely done to stimulate the economy to such an extent that it can only be done with real-world revenue creating in mind and not for the enjoyment of the players. Not to mention quests where the outlay dwarfs the reward.
Do the developers play the game? Do they know whats fun? Doing one quest over n over to use up map fragments and gold that's fun aint it? Do they think that forcing players to make hundreds of useless troops is a fun quest? or just one that consumes time and resources their database shows as under used?
I've never played an online game, and I've played many, where every event is ineptly thought out and so poorly rewarded. Where the Developers are so hands off they willfully ignore questions and problems behind a wall of indifference... and when they do accept some responsibility with a belated 'sorry gift' it's always buried behind statements of 'it was mostly user fault.. you didn't understand which is also your fault'.
I think i'm walking away now.. and that's after sticking around for a year of daily play.
I agree with that. I'm done with this game.
can you check the "10. Pay 1000 steel bars, get 600 granite loot from Surprise Attack (33% chance)." 33/% again?
i enkpoyed it
It isnt perfect but better desigend than eotw was. 2 weeks maybe a bit short for some aspects
I hear/see lots of complaints about it being too costly. i sure don;t know how people are doing it
4 x bandits nests and u spent 6k coin to get em? U are to blame yourself for being in a rush, badly informed or lazy. The adventure is buyable for map fragments in the shop and with the price of fragments it will be 1k at most per adventure-
But if you quit over this questline you would have quit anyway over something else so shrug - enjoy the next experiment i'd say
Whizkeyjack
11.03.13, 09:39
I think i'm done with this game..
Like anyone up-there cares but this last event shows nothing but contempt for the users. Difficult quests are enjoyable but ones that test patience by being repetitive and vastly resource consuming seem purely done to stimulate the economy to such an extent that it can only be done with real-world revenue creating in mind and not for the enjoyment of the players. Not to mention quests where the outlay dwarfs the reward.
Do the developers play the game? Do they know whats fun? Doing one quest over n over to use up map fragments and gold that's fun aint it? Do they think that forcing players to make hundreds of useless troops is a fun quest? or just one that consumes time and resources their database shows as under used?
I've never played an online game, and I've played many, where every event is ineptly thought out and so poorly rewarded. Where the Developers are so hands off they willfully ignore questions and problems behind a wall of indifference... and when they do accept some responsibility with a belated 'sorry gift' it's always buried behind statements of 'it was mostly user fault.. you didn't understand which is also your fault'.
I think i'm walking away now.. and that's after sticking around for a year of daily play.
Keep in mind, please, that there a lot more people who enjoy this quest that the ones that don't. Forums of course have the ones that don't, as you can see.
The game is still up and running, is successful many new guilds appear and recruiting, global channels are filled with chat, so the devs must be doing something good.
You obviously din't play too much of them. I mean starting from Evony up to Travian and most of the bigger names do the same things. They don't even have this much content, you're doing the same thing over and over again.
Keep in mind, please, that there a lot more people who enjoy this quest that the ones that don't. Forums of course have the ones that don't, as you can see.
source of this information?
Whizkeyjack
11.03.13, 09:48
source of this information?
Source? Check you global channel :) (we got a lot of new members for example, and this is true for other, ally guilds).
The new player is the "best" sample for the survey. lots of experience,many years played
and global channel just a lot of spam.
Only trade chat - wtb loot spot... wtb loot spot ...
Whizkeyjack
11.03.13, 09:57
The new player is the "best" sample for the survey. lots of experience,many years played
and global channel just a lot of spam.
Only trade chat - wtb loot spot... wtb loot spot ...
We're still talking about Newfoundland. You're on Northshire. And yes, new players are not burned out, and help us, who still can enjoy the game, have fun :)
Source? Check you global channel :) (we got a lot of new members for example, and this is true for other, ally guilds).
The reason you have new members is that we have a lot of new players. And the quests are so ridiculous that people need help, and are forced to join a guild to get it.
Don't forget that we are on the same server, and I don't see these thousands of delighted and satisfied players. I see people who are doing it, and STILL whining about it.
I've got to love your tenacity, and the fact that you seem to think you speak for the masses.
Whizkeyjack
11.03.13, 10:48
The reason you have new members is that we have a lot of new players. And the quests are so ridiculous that people need help, and are forced to join a guild to get it.
Don't forget that we are on the same server, and I don't see these thousands of delighted and satisfied players. I see people who are doing it, and STILL whining about it.
I've got to love your tenacity, and the fact that you seem to think you speak for the masses.
This is a social game, it would be normal to people help each other and encourage more Guild Activities. I don't see that as a problem!
Thank you for pointing out that we're on the same server. It seems we're not reading the same chat. When it comes to Four Winds, it's usually friendly talk, and there are some complaints about not getting the resource, but it never gets so toxic like here. But yes, I'm not spending all my life in the game, so those moments that I do, I like to read the chat. Also, I never said they never bash, I just didn't experienced it yet.
You confuse my tenacity with my struggle to get people feel more positive (and it does fail when it comes to the forums), you can't blame me for that. Since I do that, I got a lot of friends and people who I could help out in-game!
That's a plus in my book!
it is funny to see that people with negatives do like to point out that people with possitives do not speak for the server, implying that they do
Where did they get their info from? Same sources or the same 20 or so people posting and reposting on the forums
There are 3 Euro English servers posting on these boards- thats a fair few 1000 players-most of whom do not post on these forums and a fair chunk don;t even read the forums
One point for the satisfied with quest-line players, is that they feel little need to post here that they are satisfied - unless they think it was great- which it wasnt. It is not as bad as many point out though- at least imo :P
I had no issues finding all the pieces needed for the quest- including adventures- pressing a few wots got me the OF needed and fragments the bandit nest and with quest running 3 weeks, there is enough time to do the adventures without crazy time pressure
I think the even quest is ridicilously hard for lvl47-50. I wouldnt' mind building useless damascene weaponsmith, crossbowsmith and titanium smelter, and buying lots of granite, but you really can do months the same adventure without ever finding granite. I've heard about the people who have never won granite from the same adventure even if they did that tens of times. So it is a real gambling with all the useless effort. But I'm building all those ridicilous things for future event quests and keep them shut down.. Perhaps I might have a better luck then.
I'm still trying to find granite from ML but feeling rather pessimistic. Right now I'm playing ML to win titan.. That seems to be the most common good to be found in any adventure...lol My economy right now is based on winning titan from adventures.. I can always count on that..;) And the time limit gives really a pressure. So if you're lucky you can get all things done in a good time.. But if now, then it is all lost.. I think this is a great game but the rewards (for all the great effort) are really puny and only trying to encourage people to buy things with gems or gold. You cannot really earn gems within a reasonable effort. If you're smart you never do any quests and just trade things..
Ah, timing. I saw ambadil's post then walked into this in our Help:
Player 1: any one completed the event quest? crisis quest?
Player 2: granite crisis got a member in the guild who already tried 20 times
Player 3: me its killing me ha ha ha
Player 4: i stopped crisis quest last week
Most people don't chat in g-1 or on the forum at all and I sincerely hope the three servers have more than 1,000 players between them. While the players quoted above are chat regulars none of them post regularly, if at all, in the forum but Global 1, Help, Guild chats and Whispers have been filled with many of their same sentiments.
It's very nice that some people have enjoyed the event but Four Winds is flawed at its core and a number of posts commenting on how good it is have insisted there's nothing at all wrong with it which just isn't so. It's difficult I think, if one has grasped the luck problem and some of the other issues to post how lovely it is to have shiny new gems and pretty buildings for relatively little cost and effort when many other, initially very enthusiastic, players haven't had luck on their side.
The week's extension came eight or nine days into a 14 day timeframe, it's done nothing at all for those who've already canceled the Quest based on the original time and very little for those who may still be emptying their Stores for their Nth attempt at Granite. The extension also runs Fours Winds right smack into Easter which is not so nice.
Huzzah for those who've enjoyed it, grats to those who've finished it, and tyVm to all those who have been successful and still managed to realise there need to be some serious adjustments made before the next Crisis Quest rolls out.
it is funny to see that people with negatives do like to point out that people with possitives do not speak for the server, implying that they do
Where did they get their info from? Same sources or the same 20 or so people posting and reposting on the forums
There are 3 Euro English servers posting on these boards- thats a fair few 1000 players-most of whom do not post on these forums and a fair chunk don;t even read the forums
One point for the satisfied with quest-line players, is that they feel little need to post here that they are satisfied - unless they think it was great- which it wasnt. It is not as bad as many point out though- at least imo :P
I had no issues finding all the pieces needed for the quest- including adventures- pressing a few wots got me the OF needed and fragments the bandit nest and with quest running 3 weeks, there is enough time to do the adventures without crazy time pressure
I don't claim to speak for the server and I never have.
What if only have time do to adventures on weekends. You think it's possible to do 11 Motherly Loves to get granite then?
I had no issues finding all the pieces needed for the quest- including adventures- pressing a few wots got me the OF needed and fragments the bandit nest and with quest running 3 weeks, there is enough time to do the adventures without crazy time pressure
That is not even a little bit of truth. Can not you understand that there are people who have "just" reward exo or titan. Only one possibility - trade system, but new event does not have this option. I dont want to play a game based only on the random generator.
I think the main issue with most people here is the 'randomness' aspect from an adventure:
Do an adventure, 33% chance of getting granite.
Need to get granite to continue.
Forget that it costs 1500gc/2000gc/6000gc to get the adventure. It's the thought that it may take forever (or more than the allotted time) to get lucky and get the item to continue.
It does not help that (for some of us) the last step also includes an adventure with a random% drop that we could fail and not succeed in time.
Aside from that I think the quest line is fine. If they would tweak it so all you had to do was win (or not loose more than x amount of soldiers, etc.) then I doubt there would be that many complaints.
Or if they were insistent on the random drop% then at least make it a cheap quest that can be done quickly (horseback, witch, etc. which can all be found by explorer and completed in an hour or two).
I tried once (paid 1500gc worth of map frags to get the adventure), used up all my resources to win the adventure. Did not get granite. Decided to give up on the quest :( (it was either let my island suffer for a week or try one more time... trying two more times is not an option due to lack of resources :( )
Oh well, c'est la vie :)
Dont know for sure, but looks like schools and or love potion are not counted also for the produce settlers quest?
Ok, I'm going to post something just to brag...
I JUST COMPLETED FOUR WINDS QUEST !!!!!
And within the original timeframe. FYI I'm level 43
How I did it : focussed all ressources on that since day 1. Bought maps, love potion, drill buff. I did 7 treasure searches, 1 Outlaws, 3 Bandit nest, did numerous Wich of Swamp in between to get Old friends, and by a crazy luck only 1 Old friends. It cost me ressources like I would have never imagined : about 30 000 bronze sword ! Imagine the brew and the coins to buy it all !
But the secret to my success : I had 3 days off devoted to the quest ! Without that, I can't imagine someone doing it within the original timeframe.
Did it worth it ? I'm looking to buy a VET GEN. That's the only reason why I did it. So yes the 400 gems worth it, but if you are not looking for Gems to buy a VET, why the heck would you do the quest ??
for the challenge maybe.
Cinoche.
Event was not well thought through.
If you'd created it as a sort of 'Hardcore' Event or even made it so that it wasn't against the clock, you would have gotten much better feedback.
Sultan_Halid
11.03.13, 20:44
I am trying to complete this quest but i have huge problem in bandit nest.done it 3 times and havent got 600 granite i need to proceed. is there any specific time in day or something like that you have to finish it to get granite?dont know what to do
Aadu_Onnelemb
11.03.13, 20:59
Dissapointed about the granite part, just quit the quest. Just not worth killing so many solders on a small chance that on next time it will end with granite. Good luck to all you still trying :)
got a quick question , im doing the last part ( sunny day) so in the dark priests do you have to destroy all small camps as well to get the granite? and does it matter if u lootspot the 2nd place in the adventure ?
You just have to get the right loot. It can be via lootspots or any way of finishing the adventure.
Stoothefirst
12.03.13, 16:06
I just completed the quest chain, took 2 shots at Bandits and 2 shots at Old Friends to do it :)
reubenater100
12.03.13, 20:43
i compleated an adventure for one of the quests yet it said i hadn't so now i have to do it again
i´ve done the pirates adventure 7 times now, and still no granite. the chance of that happening is less than 1%. getting REALLY frustrated now....
franciscraven
13.03.13, 15:15
Done pirates twice and still no luck was going to try it a third time only to discover that a couple of players (Stariqkech, Buntuu) have bought up at least 5 of the pirate maps and and selling them at inflated prices. While simultaneously offering to buy any pirate maps for slightly below the inflated prices that they are asking to ensure they maintain a monopoly. Must admit it's a smart plan, now while I was enjoying doing this quest I'm not paying these players it would suck the fun out of it for me.
So I'll keep an eye out for a couple of days but I think I'm done with this, on the plus side I learned a few things playing this.
Thanks for the quest was fun.
Sekonda-Zvolfe
13.03.13, 20:18
I need someone to help me do Dark Priests adventure so i can complete four winds quest. Any takers?
So nodody is doing surprise attack anymore? I'm surprised that I got too late, even when the event lasts a week still..:( Last mission to win granite, but there are no lootspot swappers..
persistence in global 3 will eventually pay off
JimTudeski
14.03.13, 11:17
I've done the pirates adventure 3 times and still no granites!!!!!!!!!! This is a [ Censored ] quest and i hate this game now! I haven't more pirates adventure and more money to buy another. This is very aggravating thing and i'm getting frustrated!!!
Lol, after many sweaty hours of anxiety I finally got the event done and lootspot swapped.. I'm not sure if I want to do another event like this very soon..phew..
Dreamxcape
14.03.13, 18:20
I dont think I will ever do another event like this again... it is [ Censored ] ... I am all the way at the end. I never found the Old Friends adventure, even with 2 explorers looking every day. I had to buy it 3 times from market, not to mention the loss of resources in battle. CANT SEEM TO GET GRANITE. Seems like a [ Censored ] thing to do!
Please be careful how you express yourself,
peck_ed
I guess nobody told you that `old friends' comes as a bonus adventure occasionally in loot from `witch of the swamp' then? You need luck to be on your side with that as well as for the granite, I had to do eight WotS.
Dreamxcape
14.03.13, 19:43
No I was not aware of that. However, it says 61% chance of receiving granite. I am not a mathematician but to me that seems like a 2 out of 3 chance. Hmmm 8 times does not seem like very good odds.
MotherAegypt
14.03.13, 20:50
So, any ideas how that granite chance work? If it were ~50% chance adventure guides talk about, i can't imagine how so many people can fail it 5(3% chance), 8(0.4% chance), 10(0.1% chance) times in row. There must be some code:
If(onquest) Then realchance=listedchance/Select(TryCount,1:100,2:50,3:10,4:5,.....,10:1)
As a lvl 50 player i felt this is a total waste of time.
All you have to do is read what BlueFairy put on page 2 and that is exactly what i felt about it, why should i bother to build a DS maker?
Another poorly thought out Event.
Dreamxcape
14.03.13, 21:34
Mother that is my point, how is it mathematically possible? http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/22656-Four-Winds-Quest?highlight=friends the middle of this first page there is the list of what you need and what is the % of receiving things.
In my case and I quote ....
10. Pay 3000 meat, get 400 granite loot from Old Friends (61% chance).
PFTTT! I think either they need to up these % so that "certain" players dont have to do the same adventure 4,5,6,7 times :( when the odds should be almost 2 out of 3 you get it :(
Peck_ ed sorry for my 2 letter expression but this is really frustrating, on a time frame and down to the wire on the last thing I need to do. Just wasting resources doing the same thing, not to get the prize.
I feel wronged but I am so far in on loss of resources that I feel like I just have to keep trying. It would be like running a marathon and seeing the finish line just to up and quit.
Dreamxcape
14.03.13, 21:48
well here I go again on Old friends, maybe just maybe there will be an end to my agony!
I know the feeling. Finnished 10 Surprised Attacks now without any granite.
Stariqkech
15.03.13, 09:31
Done pirates twice and still no luck was going to try it a third time only to discover that a couple of players (Stariqkech, Buntuu) have bought up at least 5 of the pirate maps and and selling them at inflated prices...
This quest is a joke. I won't even start it or do it. I don't like it. Don't waste your time at the end you will lose much more than you can win... make a simple calculation and you will see that the reward is like 1/5 of this you spend at ressource and time.
look at the poll results- obviously more agree than disagree- so pick and chose if u want to participate or not- it isnt mandatory and for each the cost vs benefit equation is different.
Simply put- gem rewards are pretty priceless as items like licenses can only be bought with gems- and saving em from quest lines and weekly rewards is very slow. That leaves buying gems or getting em from these special events on forums and in game
Scarcity in sourcing means high relative value and with no real means to trade gem vouchers in game these are pretty much all the game in town for the non money spenders/low money spenders
franciscraven
15.03.13, 11:02
This quest is a joke. I won't even start it or do it. I don't like it. Don't waste your time at the end you will lose much more than you can win... make a simple calculation and you will see that the reward is like 1/5 of this you spend at ressource and time.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you are max or close to max building licences and have a few nice generals and such hanging around.
Simply put- gem rewards are pretty priceless as items like licenses can only be bought with gems- and saving em from quest lines and weekly rewards is very slow. That leaves buying gems or getting em from these special events on forums and in game
Scarcity in sourcing means high relative value and with no real means to trade gem vouchers in game these are pretty much all the game in town for the non money spenders/low money spenders
Yeah it's 11 weeks worth of gems all at once and having 10 extra buildings 11 weeks sooner how much is that worth? Having a go at this quest is worth it for non/low spenders.
MotherAegypt
15.03.13, 11:28
Yeah it's 11 weeks worth of gems all at once and having 10 extra buildings 11 weeks sooner how much is that worth? Having a go at this quest is worth it for non/low spenders.
Just "gems" and "having" are purely virtual - you simply don't get them. 5th granite fail atm, and reading forum I know it will take at least 3-5 more. This obviously have nothing to do with "luck" - just greedy algorithm. I think its something like:
If(spent_gems_during_event OR more_than_8_tries) Then basechance Else basechance/100
Actually I dont even want these gems, I like playing in conditions when strategical planing of limited resources (buildings) count, just this grind algorithm kill all fun.
Going to try Salem
Sauronamon
15.03.13, 15:04
I have come to voice my disapproval in regards to the random granite element of this quest. If it had no time limit I would not be as annoyed but being a player that has bought 4 bandit nest for 1500+ gc I am at a loss of why it would be engineered in such a manner as having a chance never to be able to complete it...
I'm from the .net servers (forum) in the US.
I came to post my feedback. Four Winds Quest is a terribly designed event because it has a time limit. If it didn't have a time limit, it wouldnt be as bad.
What really bothers me is that people are confusing "challenge" with "luck". These quests are LUCK based. There is no planning involved no skill involved when it comes to getting stones/marbles/granite from searches. And definitely luck when it comes to getting granite from adventures. Specifically the 33% chance granite and the double luck factor of getting old friends AND granite.
Four Winds - Various Quest Chains Evaluation
Level 16-25 - This quest requires no adventures. And is the most easiest to do for 500 gems. And 4 noble houses.
(in fact any player could probably 'reroll' a new character and get this done if they just wanted 4 noble houses.)
Not to mention the amount of gems you get from rerolling You could in fact gift yourself the silo or watermill almost in theory if you loggin for a week.
Level 26-35 - This quest line sucks because of the granite requirements of repeating island of pirates (which has a really bad return on the resources spent to finish it.) BUT its not terribly bad with dark priest since its a 2 player questline that you can share with another player and piggy back off their quest completion without wasting your own troops to finish the zone (if you're low on troops and don't need xp).
Level 36-45 - This questline is the WORST of all of the different levels. Why? Bandits Nest is very hard to get from adventure if its even acquireable from adventures. Cost too much in map fragments. Has a poor return. Chance of getting granite is 33%. Can NOT be done with 2 players. And on top of that the last chain getting granite from "old friends" which can only be obtained as a "drop" from Witch of the Swamp. This means you have to 3 different adventures for this questline minimum. And if you're very unlucky, the old friends may not drop. And if it does, and you don't get granite it. You have to do witch of the swamp again. and then old friends again. Witch of the Swamp is a 1 player map, same as old friends. You can not share the resource load/burden with anybody else.
Level 46-50 - This questline is not terribly bad as it has 2 adventures that are shareable with 2-3 friends. And the reward for doing them is not terribly bad. But its jsut as frustrating as the previous as it requires granite.
You guys really really need to fix your game design. Possibly give players a choice to which quest chain they'd prefer. Maybe allow players to choose a quest chain to do once. It's unfair to have 4 quest chains that I'm forced into the hardest one when I never got a chance to do the easiest one because I passed that level already before you introduced these quest lines.
I think that we should be allowed to do the first 'tier' of quest chain if its our first time doing it. And then the second tier etc... later. etc.
For example, there are a lot of quests for new players right now that give great decoration rewards. But this was introduced way after I had surpassed that level and now I can't get those decoration rewards unless I start over and make a new account. We should be allowed to do quests even easy ones that were introduced later.
Developers: How to Fix BAD LUCK in Quests
You guys need to program in a 'fail safe' for the worst case scenario of Bad Luck. These Quests that require "X" granite for adventures is an example of really bad design.
Some people might get it in their first shot. But some people might never get it at all if they keep getting strings of bad luck. Especially the ones where granite is 33% chance instead of 50% chance.
Failing the first time is okay. Failing the second time starts becoming frustrating. Failing the third time is demoralizing. After that it becomes rage quit territory. Since its theortically possibly to never get granite at all with strings of bad luck.
I would fix this the require of the quest says get X granite in 1 adventure or Y exotic wood in 3 adventures.
Or generically "X" granite OR "Y" exotic wood. Where the X value is the minimum value you can get from adventures. and the Y value is the minimum cummulative total of 3 adventures of exotic wood combined.
At least this will ensure players to get the quest done in a timely fashion.
Also- I prefer Silos as a reward over Watermill, as watermills are easily obtainable from easter event. Last year there was an unlimited purchase of watermills, and the egg requirements are cheap enough that you can get it from trade. Silos are very hard to get and its limited quantity during halloween.
Getting Water from trade is cheap too. Getting Wheat is not. I don't even know why Watermill cost so much in gems. Watermills have been given freely as rewards in the past during Xmas event and other events. Silos not so much.
I hate to say this but the designers are so out of touch with the game mechanics.
Actually, offering watermills over silos was presumably a decision made for financial reasons which BB would have plenty of knowlegde of: lots of people buying silos, but nobody buying watermills? Might as well give watermills away as a prize for an event. Simple and perfect business decision
Because, let's be honest, the only guiding principle is pushing people into buying gems to buy the buildings they actually need.
Actually, offering watermills over silos was presumably a decision made for financial reasons which BB would have plenty of knowlegde of: lots of people buying silos, but nobody buying watermills? Might as well give watermills away as a prize for an event. Simple and perfect business decision
Because, let's be honest, the only guiding principle is pushing people into buying gems to buy the buildings they actually need.
When I say I prefer silos over watermills is because they're offering silos to the people in the 26-35 bracket. 36-45 got the watermills.
So that's why I am saying its quite unfair that the lower level folks are getting the silos.
Sharpielein
16.03.13, 14:08
Currently running my THIRTEENTH Witch of the Swamp in a feeble attempt to get Old Friends... 23% chance, my goodness!
If the quest chain demanded me to complete WotS and Old Friends ONCE each, I would have been finished ten times over.
But like this?
The current TO prices for Friends are ludicrous, but my luck in (not) obtaining one is even more so!
BB, this quest is simply broken due to the element of luck.
How can it be other players do EXACT the same thing I do ONCE and complete the quest, and I have to do it 12 times and STILL NOT completed?
Sharpielein
16.03.13, 14:12
Next time BB does a quest series, they may as well make stuff like "Obtain a Flowered Stone from Horseback" - some people will get it in a day (lootspotting) and others will not get it in 10 years.
Or they could just make a quest where once a day, you roll a 100-sided dice: if it lands on 1, you beat the quest.
Is this good design?
Overall as a player I have enjoyed trying to complete this crisis quest. However as a player I also got frustrated about the randomness and luck involved.
As a player I do have a viable way to do this kind of thing in the future that may appeal to all, but then again it may not.
I think a fairer way to do it would be to experience one discoverable adventure with under x number of losses, 1 premium adventure like Bandits Nest and then a discoverable multiplayer adventure for a luck drop resource.
Yes I know some will be outraged at the prospect of the luck/randomness but if they are multiplayer adventures that are discoverable then it gives 2 bites of the cherry at each adventure for those who have friends at the same level or even in a guild.
You are totally wrong in suggesting that even a multiplayer luck element would be acceptable. It's utterly outrageous on a time-limited event in any form.
I can't say I'm outraged by MOD_Gytha_Ogg's suggestion but I do think taking a group of players, offering them all the same thing and then having them roll dice again and again to see who gets it for a cost of 1,000 resources and who must pay 10,000 or more (for example) if they manage to get it at all due to time restrictions is not in the spirit of the game I've been playing.
That neither the size of the gamble nor the time limits were made clear at the outset of this Event is just ridiculous but even if they had been and an Official List of all the Quests and accurate, confirmed droprates made players able to make informed decisions about the 'lottery' it still wouldn't feel particularly TSO. "Coins in the Street" and certain other Quests rely on luck but they have no end date and will be completed if one just bashes away at them long enough, the introduction of potentially impossible tasks in any form is something I also find entirely unacceptable.
I agree. It's fine to do adventure once, twice, or even 10 times if you like, but at least I need to let my economy rest for a moment in between. And now I'm doing adventure for a third time without really restoring my island, because I don't have time for this. And given the number of resources and troops I'm loosing, I really think that this may be my last attempt. And I'm really sorry, because I don't have any super-general (which makes doing adventures over and over again even more irritating), I wish to collect gems for one and would really appreciate 500 of them.
mrfatalerror
17.03.13, 15:25
So, I finished Bandit Nest adventure. Lost almost whole my army. And guess what? Yeah, I didn't get needed amount of granite. It means I can't finish the Four Winds quest at all. Thank you.
Next time, feel free to base the chain quest on probability again. It's really uberfunny.
</sarcasm>
Whizkeyjack
18.03.13, 08:11
I'm from the .net servers (forum) in the US.
I came to post my feedback. Four Winds Quest is a terribly designed event because it has a time limit. If it didn't have a time limit, it wouldnt be as bad.
What really bothers me is that people are confusing "challenge" with "luck". These quests are LUCK based. There is no planning involved no skill involved when it comes to getting stones/marbles/granite from searches. And definitely luck when it comes to getting granite from adventures. Specifically the 33% chance granite and the double luck factor of getting old friends AND granite.
Four Winds - Various Quest Chains Evaluation
Level 16-25 - This quest requires no adventures. And is the most easiest to do for 500 gems. And 4 noble houses.
(in fact any player could probably 'reroll' a new character and get this done if they just wanted 4 noble houses.)
Not to mention the amount of gems you get from rerolling You could in fact gift yourself the silo or watermill almost in theory if you loggin for a week.
Level 26-35 - This quest line sucks because of the granite requirements of repeating island of pirates (which has a really bad return on the resources spent to finish it.) BUT its not terribly bad with dark priest since its a 2 player questline that you can share with another player and piggy back off their quest completion without wasting your own troops to finish the zone (if you're low on troops and don't need xp).
Level 36-45 - This questline is the WORST of all of the different levels. Why? Bandits Nest is very hard to get from adventure if its even acquireable from adventures. Cost too much in map fragments. Has a poor return. Chance of getting granite is 33%. Can NOT be done with 2 players. And on top of that the last chain getting granite from "old friends" which can only be obtained as a "drop" from Witch of the Swamp. This means you have to 3 different adventures for this questline minimum. And if you're very unlucky, the old friends may not drop. And if it does, and you don't get granite it. You have to do witch of the swamp again. and then old friends again. Witch of the Swamp is a 1 player map, same as old friends. You can not share the resource load/burden with anybody else.
Level 46-50 - This questline is not terribly bad as it has 2 adventures that are shareable with 2-3 friends. And the reward for doing them is not terribly bad. But its jsut as frustrating as the previous as it requires granite.
You guys really really need to fix your game design. Possibly give players a choice to which quest chain they'd prefer. Maybe allow players to choose a quest chain to do once. It's unfair to have 4 quest chains that I'm forced into the hardest one when I never got a chance to do the easiest one because I passed that level already before you introduced these quest lines.
I think that we should be allowed to do the first 'tier' of quest chain if its our first time doing it. And then the second tier etc... later. etc.
For example, there are a lot of quests for new players right now that give great decoration rewards. But this was introduced way after I had surpassed that level and now I can't get those decoration rewards unless I start over and make a new account. We should be allowed to do quests even easy ones that were introduced later.
Developers: How to Fix BAD LUCK in Quests
You guys need to program in a 'fail safe' for the worst case scenario of Bad Luck. These Quests that require "X" granite for adventures is an example of really bad design.
Some people might get it in their first shot. But some people might never get it at all if they keep getting strings of bad luck. Especially the ones where granite is 33% chance instead of 50% chance.
Failing the first time is okay. Failing the second time starts becoming frustrating. Failing the third time is demoralizing. After that it becomes rage quit territory. Since its theortically possibly to never get granite at all with strings of bad luck.
I would fix this the require of the quest says get X granite in 1 adventure or Y exotic wood in 3 adventures.
Or generically "X" granite OR "Y" exotic wood. Where the X value is the minimum value you can get from adventures. and the Y value is the minimum cummulative total of 3 adventures of exotic wood combined.
At least this will ensure players to get the quest done in a timely fashion.
Hey, welcome :)
We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.
This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.
So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy :(
Third BN and no granite. I can't afford another go, not to mention I have no chance of finishing on time. So I cancel this quest and feel quite bad. Funny, that everyone who is fine with the chain seems to have been lucky enough to get resources required at 1-2nd time they tried... lucky you.
Had to do 9 old friends. Beat that ;)
As it says, I have 61% chance to get granite doing it first time. Honestly I don't believe anyone who is is going to say that it was bad luck.
Hey, welcome :)
We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.
This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.
So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy :(
It doesn't matter how you dress it up, it is bad game design.
I am in the 36-45 bracket and I have give up trying to complete this quest line. In truth, I wish I had listened to others and not even bothered trying to complete it.
You are right, they can't make everyone happy. However, they could implement a design philosophy that doesn't include luck.
Random rewards are fine as a loot reward, but it's not okay to then have quests that require you receive one of those random rewards, especially when the adventures that you are asked to complete are so expensive.
Many players who weren't lucky enough to get what was required have been left frustrated by these quests. They may not be a requirement of the game, but they are an important part of it because they give players something to do and thus add to the longevity of the game.
I do not mind a quest line that is difficult, but it should be difficult in a non random way. Once a player has completed a task, that should be it, move on to the next quest. It should not require a task to be completed and then RNG decides if the player can move on or not.
I have seen many players reporting it took them several loot spots before they got the required reward. At least you have that option. Many people don't.
Congratulations those of you who have managed to complete this chain.
Hey, welcome :)
We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.
This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.
So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy :(
BB admitted EotW wasn't what they'd intended. So, actually they don't know what they're doing... stop trying to defend the indefensible
I agree with the bad design, Im stuck on the dark priests after 5 attempts still no granite :( and from what i can see the odds should be 50%. i'll give it one more go then cut my losses and time and spend my efforts on another game.
I deleted my Four Winds Quest and immediately felt much better. I don't mind working for achievable challenges, but adding luck in is irritating.
I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.
I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.
All of what you say is fine, except for one thing - all of what you liked could have been achieved without the luck element. Good design would have achieved the fresh challenges, but using a critical path that did not involve luck. Having rewards based on luck is fine, having progress in a quest's critical path based on luck is not fine. There really isn't any question about this - any professional developer knows that critical path progress based on luck is bad design. The quest may be a sub-element within the game, but it still has a clear critical path to follow to complete it. If you think we're wrong in calling it bad design, then please show me any examples of good games where progress through the game's critical path is based on luck? I think you will struggle to find any, I really do.
I don't need to provide examples of games to make my point.
There was an element of luck, not in being able to complete the quest, only in how simply it could be completed. Removing any element of luck would only make it a simpler and less interesting do A, do B, do C type experience which is no different to the game. I fail to see really how your point does not translate to anything other than expecting the rewards without having to put the effort in. So BB didn't provide everyone with gems, silos and watermills on a plate with a 'good job'. I've seen plenty of people complaining during FW that they have done 1 or 2 of X adventure with 33% chance of completing requirement, not got granite and thrown their toys out of the pram.
I seem to find these events polarise people into two camps, the people who enjoy a challenge, see it adds to the game and succeed and the others who decide it's not worth their time and then complain about BB's decisions and trash the event. This was a big improvement over EOTW and I hope they keep up the progress.
Please don't try to patronise me, it doesn't help your argument. :) The key statement you make is this:
There was an element of luck, not in being able to complete the quest, only in how simply it could be completed.
And this is where you are wrong. In order to complete the quest you HAD to be lucky enough to get more than one specific reward drop. Without them you could not complete the quest. As you can see, many players completed many, many adventures without getting the necessary reward. Getting lucky is not a challenge, it's just random chance with no regard for skill or dedication.
I'm really not trying to be awkward here - the quest required random luck to be completed and random luck on the critical path of a game design is bad design. That's all there is to it. I very much hope BB have learned from their mistake, because it really is a bad mistake and not only should it not happen again it should never have happened in the first place. In future quests I expect them just to require us to complete a specific adventure (preferably hard to get or hard to complete ones) or complete it with certain new restrictions (soldier loss limits and so on). If they continue relying on blind luck, then I will again simply cancel the quest.
Yes, the need to get lucky was there to stand in for a challenge. An imaginative design team would have developed an actual challenge.
I wasn't remotely "challenged" by the event, even though my supply chain migt have been. But there was never any difficulty in deciding what I needed to do to meet the requirements of the quest chain.
I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.
So you had to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through the quest chain. Please could you post how many of your attempts were via loot spots?
Please don't try to patronise me, it doesn't help your argument. :) The key statement you make is this:
And this is where you are wrong. In order to complete the quest you HAD to be lucky enough to get more than one specific reward drop. Without them you could not complete the quest. As you can see, many players completed many, many adventures without getting the necessary reward. Getting lucky is not a challenge, it's just random chance with no regard for skill or dedication.
I'm really not trying to be awkward here - the quest required random luck to be completed and random luck on the critical path of a game design is bad design. That's all there is to it. I very much hope BB have learned from their mistake, because it really is a bad mistake and not only should it not happen again it should never have happened in the first place. In future quests I expect them just to require us to complete a specific adventure (preferably hard to get or hard to complete ones) or complete it with certain new restrictions (soldier loss limits and so on). If they continue relying on blind luck, then I will again simply cancel the quest.
what will be with players who can not finish "four winds" because there is no Old Friends adventure available? will we get any reward because we finished 9.5/10 of quest
and I finished adventure 2 times ( <--- strike that - 3 times done) and I did not get granite
You didn't finish the chain, you won't get the final reward. It's that simple.
Except that BB will probably realise their mistake, give a half hearted apology and a consolation prize to everyone just as they did after the EtoW disaster.
(I would add that, personally, I didn't mind EotW, it was just really dull having one large adventure with huge amounts of walking to do! This is just an epic disaster)
I do think the design of the event was poor (being polite) and imo that was largely due to the luck element, but also that the original time scale was just 2 weeks. Extending the time frame did not help much for those that looked at the chain and "knew" there was no realistic chance to complete in 2 weeks.
TSO is not a game that requires you to log in for 4-5 hours a day, every day, to play the game successfully. Some might choose to, but it is not a necessity. I think this aspect is one of the reasons why the game is as successful as it is. Many players that are short on time were alienated by the original short time frame.
Challenging... yup parts of this quest could be considered challenging by some. I object to that word being used. Chess is a challenging game, Bingo is not. This chain had more in common with Bingo. No insult meant to those that enjoy a sociable game of Bingo as I myself have enjoyed a few ;)
I just find it the whole "luck" aspect of it grossly unfair. Some people are failing - not because they have not put the effort in, but because luck were not on their side.
I applaud and congratulate those that have completed the chain, and have heartfelt sympathy for those that put time, effort and resources in, but are unable to complete the quest chain through no fault of their own. I understand how disheartening it must feel.
I loved the idea of EotW, and I loved the idea of 4 Winds, just not the execution of it. I think we need events throughout the year apart from Halloween, Xmas and Easter. I am hoping that we will have more events, but - also hoping that what should be valuable lessons and feedback from the player community will be taken into consideration before the next one is let loose on us.
Blue:)
Just to add a point ... after 5th attempt in Old Friends I've dont' found any granite .... GRRRRRRR!
nothing more to add I think ....
I completed the quest after having to do 11 bandit nest to get granite, i was lucky with old freinds i got granite first time. had BB not extended i would not have been able to finish. If luck is to be a part of these events then there needs to be no time limits as not every player is able to play for hours everyday or they risk alienating a lot of players who have real life commitments
Friedewart
19.03.13, 20:13
just started the 4th time Dark Priest, i hope i will get the granite this time. Took me already 2 pirates to get the first granite. many thanks to my guilde otherwise i would be able to do it 4 times in a row. Who designed this?
You should hurry, Friedwart. The Four Winds quest chain expires in a little over 28 hours...
Lovrek1983
19.03.13, 20:52
they should seriosuly extend it..... by like a weak or something.....
they should seriosuly extend it..... by like a weak or something.....
Easter kicks in this week! Should be pretty fun!
They already did once, and the extra week allowed me to complete it (although I did get the correct granite loot first time whenever it was required, I realise I'm in a minority with this).
Personally, I hope that they do more of these quests, but maybe make the adventure loot quests easier (e.g. Receive granite from 'Witch of the Swamp' - not specify 400 or 500 granite, so raising the chance to 50%, and for an easy-to-get/easy-to-complete adventure).
Easter kicks in this week! Should be pretty fun!
Woo! Looking forward to it...
I played the Easter event on the test server, and I enjoyed it. I didn't like getting one quest chain every 5 days though - hope they made them more frequent...?
I didn't like getting one quest chain every 5 days though - hope they made them more frequent...?
Quite the opposite unfortunately.
During the Easter event, all active Lvl 17+ players will be able to interact with a new NPC: he will assign them one quest chain every 6 days.
Quite the opposite unfortunately.
Hmm, that sucks...
It means you only get a couple of quest chains in before the whole event ends, and each quest chain can be done in 10 minutes...
Hmm, that sucks...
It means you only get a couple of quest chains in before the whole event ends, and each quest chain can be done in 10 minutes...
That's not how the quest chains work - there are 4 of them and they can take the full five days to complete since they include various stages requiring you to produce x amount of resources or settlers or to send your explorers out on particular searches. There are no "get resource x on adventure y" fortunately...
franciscraven
20.03.13, 04:11
Just finished Four winds and what ever way you want to call this the quest it totally changed the way I play this game. My entire economy is now war focused.
Was around level 27/28 when I started, had three sectors left to clear in my home zone and one general. After 20 days, clearing 2 home zone sectors, 4 Island of Pirates, and 2 Dark Priests I am finally finished. No help and no loot spots. Currently level 33 with three generals and a military surplus of 10000 horses and bronze swords. Only 225 population in star menu left but the crystal I gained = +10 buildings which will add another bread and brew chain.
All my building resources bar tools are less than 800+ every 12 hours which is as it should be, I have 1 scout and 2 Geologists, this really needs to change now i can relax a bit.
This quest made me focus on what was important in this game Bread, Brew, Bronze swords and some horses. For that this quest was an amazing eye opener for me.
That said if I failed to get granite on my second Dark Priest attempt and the third attempt I was gearing up for with the 20 hours I had left I would have been very very annoyed. Great quest, loved it, finally finishing it felt great but the luck element needs to be reduced/removed putting in lots of time and effort and failing through no fault of your own would burn.
Thanks for the good times TSO team you have my love for this quest.
three Bandits nests completed with no quest reward.
no chance of finishing now /sigh
Did 6 Bandit's Nest in total and didn't drop granite, gave up a few days ago as the remaining requirements weren't possible to do in a few days even if I dropped it on my 7th try.
In the form it was presented I would have to give it a sideways thumb. It's not terrible but not great, very resource hungry but also forced me switch my map up so I can do more adventuring so in the long run that's not a bad thing, worth a try but the random factor(s) being so restrictive meant that the attractiveness of the final reward diminished with each failure to get lucky. Switch out the "Get X granite from a specific adventure" for either "Complete adventure Y losing less than X {troop type}" or "Get X granite from adventures" so you're reducing the overly prominent luck element and I would give it a thumbs up.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.4 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.