Lucky Explorer Buffs

[Alsh]

I love my Luckies- they are a great addition to the game, making the rarer buffs more available without affecting the basic gameplay. But please, please, could BB seriously consider adding Medipacks to their list of possible finds? There is no doubt that this would be well received, and would make a very-difficult-to-come-by buff more available. As this buff is only usable on adventures, it would not notable affect anyone's gameplay nor give certain people an unfair advantage, as excess ones would be sold in TO in the same way as any other buff or resource.

Thanks!

[TheVoid]

Good idea !! i second the motion :D

[Kit_]

Excellent idea, would love to be able to get more medipacks, has always seemed strange to me to have a tutorial quest showing you how to use one, but no way to get them in game except buying the spares the new players put on sale from completing that one quest.

[Brayarg]

Although I like the idea of medipacks being available within the game, I think it would need to be done right (very very rare drops). Seeing as we now have the MMA, couple him with medipacks, I can see that getting abused.

edit: Unless they just make the medipacks not useable on the MMA

[Tierarzt]

or only allowed to be used once per adventure like the other adventure only buffs. Ideal for getting that emergency heal when time is running short.

[SmurfAsH]

or only allowed to be used once per adventure like the other adventure only buffs. Ideal for getting that emergency heal when time is running short.
+1

[Brayarg]

or only allowed to be used once per adventure like the other adventure only buffs. Ideal for getting that emergency heal when time is running short.

Yea, how is for the powers that be to decided, the bottom line is limitations. You cant have an MMA used with medipacks if medipacks are as common as red flying settlers. We would be back at the point where nukes where used and BB need to act to fix the balance again.

[Alsh]

Agreed, the discovery percentage chance should be only 1-3% as it would only be of real value without tipping the game too far if it remains quite rare.

[Sharpielein]

Actually, I don't even see the problem with making medipacks usable on the MMA as often as you want, as long as they're not all too common.

Supply and demand would do the rest.

Imagine that Medipack prices settle at 500 coins. That would allow you to do adventures like Mother Love with very little troop losses "near instant", but at a cost of 3500 coins. Broken? As in: how?
I can imagine that the price of Medipacks would settle to create an economic equilibrium:
(Adventures complete with Medipacks)*(Loot value - Cost of Medipacks) = (Adventures complete without Medipack) * (Loot Value)
That said, the equilibrium will be determined by the most-played adventure where the Medipack is most valuable.

In fact, we have Assassins, Rain of Arrows - and Medipacks would just become the low-level version thereof: Significantly less flexible, significantly less powerful, but available to everyone.

Wouldn't that be great?

[urgabel]

Actually, I don't even see the problem with making medipacks usable on the MMA as often as you want, as long as they're not all too common.

Agree.

I would not limit it at all, and if some limit should be present it could be 1 use per general, instead of 1 use for the whole adventure.

[Brayarg]

Agree.

I would not limit it at all, and if some limit should be present it could be 1 use per general, instead of 1 use for the whole adventure.

I already mentioned rare drops as a possible solution, there are many solutions. It needs to be limited otherwise players would finish DB with nothing more than a handful of recs a few medipacks and a MMA. That in my opinion is broken gameplay.

[Sharpielein]

I already mentioned rare drops as a possible solution, there are many solutions. It needs to be limited otherwise players would finish DB with nothing more than a handful of recs a few medipacks and a MMA. That in my opinion is broken gameplay.

If Lucky Explorers had a 10% chance to return a Medpack on a Very Long Search, that would mean that players would get an average of 1 Medpack per week - to do "DB with nothing more than a handful of recs, and a MMA" would still require the medpacks obtained by maybe 5 players over the course of 1 month.
And that's not like saying you couldn't obtain the cavalries required to complete DB "the regular way" with losses a little bit faster ...

If medpacks would cost 1000 a piece, then doing "DB with MMA and a handful of recs" would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 15000 coins - I'd say "Let them", because I can buy 5-8 DB lootspots for that same price ...

Consider:
What is the reason why Flying Settlers are not worth much? Because they are too common - or because it's not possible to use them in any form or fashion to make more than like 300 coins profit? Why would someone pay 500 coins to earn 300 coins? Not really many sensible people.
However, if you could use an MMA to save you 2 hours of your real time, the calculation looks different: If you value your time at 1000 coins an hour, then the upper limit is higher than RFS.
Next thing: RFS is limited by the amount of buildings you have plus the fact that you can only use 1 per day per building. So most players can't even USE more than 1-2 of them per day!

If Medpacks were not limited, then people *could* use 10 or more of them within 1 hour, driving up consumption (without increasing supply) - and you know what happens with prices when demand is high but supply is limited.

I wouldn't be concerned about game balance. I would think that price alone will make "medpack hunts" a rarity, because loot value will not go up and the amount of medpack adventuring would be far and inbetween on a large scale of things.


It was somthing completely different with the Weak Point Potion: 3 WPP would take out an entire *sector* full of tough camps, sometimes saving 1000+ troops.
Not so with Medpack+MMA: You still need to clear your way to the boss --- and no matter how many times you send the MMA with 1r, the Dark Magician won't die :D

[IndianKid]

+1 for med

[Brayarg]

If Lucky Explorers had a 10% chance to return a Medpack on a Very Long Search, that would mean that players would get an average of 1 Medpack per week - to do "DB with nothing more than a handful of recs, and a MMA" would still require the medpacks obtained by maybe 5 players over the course of 1 month.
And that's not like saying you couldn't obtain the cavalries required to complete DB "the regular way" with losses a little bit faster ...

If medpacks would cost 1000 a piece, then doing "DB with MMA and a handful of recs" would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 15000 coins - I'd say "Let them", because I can buy 5-8 DB lootspots for that same price ...

Consider:
What is the reason why Flying Settlers are not worth much? Because they are too common - or because it's not possible to use them in any form or fashion to make more than like 300 coins profit? Why would someone pay 500 coins to earn 300 coins? Not really many sensible people.
However, if you could use an MMA to save you 2 hours of your real time, the calculation looks different: If you value your time at 1000 coins an hour, then the upper limit is higher than RFS.
Next thing: RFS is limited by the amount of buildings you have plus the fact that you can only use 1 per day per building. So most players can't even USE more than 1-2 of them per day!

If Medpacks were not limited, then people *could* use 10 or more of them within 1 hour, driving up consumption (without increasing supply) - and you know what happens with prices when demand is high but supply is limited.

I wouldn't be concerned about game balance. I would think that price alone will make "medpack hunts" a rarity, because loot value will not go up and the amount of medpack adventuring would be far and inbetween on a large scale of things.


It was somthing completely different with the Weak Point Potion: 3 WPP would take out an entire *sector* full of tough camps, sometimes saving 1000+ troops.
Not so with Medpack+MMA: You still need to clear your way to the boss --- and no matter how many times you send the MMA with 1r, the Dark Magician won't die :D

I do believe I have already stated "very very rare drops" (more than once now) before you entered this thread as a potential solution, along with other potential possibilities (please check the first page). Surly by making this suggestion it should be quite apparent that this would be a form of limitation by itself and I am aware of this? Why else would I be making it.

My entire point is, If no limitations are put in place at all, Then this would have a detrimental effect on the balancing. We seem to be agreeing that drop rates are one form of control and I'm not sure why we are even having this discussion as you seem to be trying to resell my own suggestion back to me???? quite odd really. Unless you think that I don't class drop rates as a limitation.

RFS & DB specifics are irrelevant here, The example could have been any buff that luckys return in abundance ((whips and carrots/Harvest ritual)) to name but two, and there are now many very common triples and a few common quadruples. DB could have quite easily been DP RB or anything for that matter. As for MMA + 1 rec for bosses this shouldn't even need mentioning, goes without saying of course.

[Sharpielein]

I do believe I have already stated "very very rare drops" (more than once now) before you entered this thread as a potential solution, along with other potential possibilities (please check the first page). Surly by making this suggestion it should be quite apparent that this would be a form of limitation by itself and I am aware of this? Why else would I be making it.
"Very very rare" is something subjective, as there are things in this game with probability of <1%, and frankly - in statistics, something like 10% is more or less common.
In a game where maybe 1000 active players on one server send out 2 explorers daily, 10% is still a big supply (e.g. 1400 per week).
Hence I was arguing from the different side, i.e. that even "fairly common" availability will not have serious effects on the game.
As long as there isn't like a 100% chance, supply and demand will settle the score.



My entire point is, If no limitations are put in place at all, Then this would have a detrimental effect on the balancing

While my point was that in the big scheme of things, the balance effect of medpacks becomes fairly irrelevant, because "balance" would be created by players and market demand. In the end, a medpack doesn't save you more than 50 coins.


RFS & DB specifics are irrelevant here
No, they are not - at least not to the extent I was mentioning.
If the amount of consumption for an object is limited (RFS), then as soon as supply exceeds consumption demand drops to 0 and the item becomes worthless.
If consumption is potentially infinite (MED), then value is first and foremost a subjective function of perceived utility.
Since we both agree that perceived utility is also quite high, the final price tag would become the one limiting factor to practical utility.

"Balance" will become achieved through the fact that some players have such a high time-value for their real time that excessive use of Medpacks will be unfeasible for all but the most wealthy players, even if they are fairly common.

[Brayarg]

"Very very rare" is something subjective, as there are things in this game with probability of <1%, and frankly - in statistics, something like 10% is more or less common.
In a game where maybe 1000 active players on one server send out 2 explorers daily, 10% is still a big supply (e.g. 1400 per week).
Hence I was arguing from the different side, i.e. that even "fairly common" availability will not have serious effects on the game.
As long as there isn't like a 100% chance, supply and demand will settle the score.


While my point was that in the big scheme of things, the balance effect of medpacks becomes fairly irrelevant, because "balance" would be created by players and market demand. In the end, a medpack doesn't save you more than 50 coins.


No, they are not - at least not to the extent I was mentioning.
If the amount of consumption for an object is limited (RFS), then as soon as supply exceeds consumption demand drops to 0 and the item becomes worthless.
If consumption is potentially infinite (MED), then value is first and foremost a subjective function of perceived utility.
Since we both agree that perceived utility is also quite high, the final price tag would become the one limiting factor to practical utility.

"Balance" will become achieved through the fact that some players have such a high time-value for their real time that excessive use of Medpacks will be unfeasible for all but the most wealthy players, even if they are fairly common.

A 10% chance wouldn't have a serious effect no, but who are you arguing with? show me where I said 10% was a game changing percentage?? You cant because no such thing happened. What I said was if no limitations where in place (Basically they drop like pins in a bowling all) then it would effect balancing. There has to be some form of control regardless if that control derives from: drop chance, mma exclusion, once per adventure, a timer or anything else I may have missed.... The bottom line is "control".

DB and flying settlers may have been relevant to you, But neither play any part in what I'm discussing and where just used as random examples.

Supply and demand will control it to a certain point, unless the market is saturated with the buff, At that point the market crashes, Now if BB did decide to implement this, Would 1% be acceptable in my opinion? or 5% or 10% 15%? I believe they are all fine, Im really not to fussed, as long as BB don't do anything silly like 75%+ but they are still setting limitations by keeping the drop rate low.

[Sharpielein]

Since BB intends to make Medpacks available from Collectibles, we will see how that works out anyways.
Maybe collections will already be so available that potentially getting medpacks from explorers become irrelevant.

[Durin_d]

Since BB intends to make Medpacks available from Collectibles, we will see how that works out anyways.

Where did you read this?

I hope that you didn't break the NDA on the New Battle System.

[unicornlinzy1]

I have been looking for any information on this as well, but can't find anything :(

[fishslice]

Yes come on Sharpielein please tell us all where this information has come from?

[Sharpielein]

Ok, there was something going around in the forums (http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/28698-Feedback-Granite-Pit-new-Special-Goldmine-Quest-Experience-Points-to-Starcoins/page7) but maybe I misinterpreted it.

[ElMagnifico]

+1 for medipack