View Full Version : Re: Weapons in Loot
Dear BB,
Even though I have no idea why you felt the need to take weapons out of adventure loot, it is now becoming apparent to many players that this wasnt a good idea. Even at level 50, it is difficult to get your elite weapons balanced and also to get enough of them.
The weapon issue then flows down the levels to the newbies, they are having a great deal of difficulty with iron and steel swords which at the best of times are expensive to buy in TO and slow to produce.
It is my suggestion that you put the weapons back into adventure loot as it will then balance things out again, including cutting back the ridiculously high weapon prices in TO.
Thanks in advance.
Kindest Regards,
missy1962
Sharpielein
27.12.14, 07:40
Maybe make an additional weapon slot where a -low- amount of elite weapons is awarded, maybe 100 Xbows/Dams/Cans.
I do not see much of a problem for lowlevels: losing militia or soldiers on lower levels is rare anyways: the main difference is while in the past, losing militia or soldiers was unattractive, now it's prohibitive. The result, however, is the same - players lv40 will hardly use these troops in anything that would lose them.
What I do see a problem with is crossbowmen for midlevels (40-47) as in the past, Crossbows were glorified bowmen, now they'll soon be nearly impossible to obtain.
I wouldn't mind occasionally losing cannoneers, but I've lost over 500 of them (=5k cannons) thanks to, ehum, "features" of the game like general multiattacks, random troop reassignment, hopping generals and whatever. I do have a problem with a game that makes you lose months of work due to bugs, then removes any and all means to recoup your losses.
I am seriously afraid of the long-term price of crossbows and cannons. If I didn't miscalculate, 1 Crossbowman will cost roughly 100 coins and 1 Cannoneer roughly 300 coins in about 6 months: Losing a batch of 200 cannoneers will cost roughly as much as upgrading an entire island from level 3 to level 4.
I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.
The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.
Additionally people have said many times on this forum that they no longer feel the need for the large bread lines they once had due to the number of settlers dropped from adventures and the extra settlers available from Village Schools. Also with the inclusion of grout many buildings are able to be upgraded to Level 6. These factors mean that many people will be complaining about loss of weapons but still have islands that overproduce lots of basics which they are happy to sell for profit. Maybe people will realise that they cant have an island that over produces in one area for trade purposes but then under produces in another area such as weapons without having a price to pay.
I don't even see Iron production being an issue, lots of iron is now becoming available with extra Iron or Iron Fillers being dropped in loot. I do think coal will be a problem but then again this is where those that have the Epic Workyard (or 2) will be at an advantage and as such those that invest in Gems will again see them selves at a time advantage over free to play players.
We are getting to a position where Epic Adventures truly are truly Epic (with the XP and Star Coins being the main reward and not just a profit source) whilst Fairytale Adventures are the types of adventure that cant be done in 3-4 hours anymore but do become the Adventures for those that are not faint of heart and have the resources to undertake a deed of hardship and worthy of Fairytales in the quest for those mythical rewards. Rather than the situation today where a decent player is able to get all the items worth having from beans and beanstalks within a month.
People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.
Regards
fish
People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.
Regards
fish
Which people were that? The ones that were level 50 already and felt they have nothing more to do and also probably felt that it is too easy to come to level 50 while they already become one. I would love to see those that wanted this to be reset back to level 33 and their stocked weapons taken away from them. I think they'd love it. If what you say is true, is there a reason why they wouldn't love it?
Hmmm
I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.
The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.
Additionally people have said many times on this forum that they no longer feel the need for the large bread lines they once had due to the number of settlers dropped from adventures and the extra settlers available from Village Schools. Also with the inclusion of grout many buildings are able to be upgraded to Level 6. These factors mean that many people will be complaining about loss of weapons but still have islands that overproduce lots of basics which they are happy to sell for profit. Maybe people will realise that they cant have an island that over produces in one area for trade purposes but then under produces in another area such as weapons without having a price to pay.
I don't even see Iron production being an issue, lots of iron is now becoming available with extra Iron or Iron Fillers being dropped in loot. I do think coal will be a problem but then again this is where those that have the Epic Workyard (or 2) will be at an advantage and as such those that invest in Gems will again see them selves at a time advantage over free to play players.
We are getting to a position where Epic Adventures truly are truly Epic (with the XP and Star Coins being the main reward and not just a profit source) whilst Fairytale Adventures are the types of adventure that cant be done in 3-4 hours anymore but do become the Adventures for those that are not faint of heart and have the resources to undertake a deed of hardship and worthy of Fairytales in the quest for those mythical rewards. Rather than the situation today where a decent player is able to get all the items worth having from beans and beanstalks within a month.
People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.
Regards
fish
+1 and well said.
IMO this game has struggled in the past to balance giving entertainment whilst providing a challenge.
TSO is a long-haul game and too many rewards were given too soon. Some players became bored.
The point is to USE high-level production chains, not find a way round them.
OK, you can argue that resources needed, production times and upgrades could be tweaked or better balanced and that is what BB should be monitoring and making those changes where necessary.
We have all these great buildings to play with so BB has now got to make it appealing to do so.
Dropping specific resources is a good idea (if balanced), but they could drop the odd specific buff too (ie damascene hammer etc) to help out further
I find it appealing that there is now a more "settlement managing" way to progress than just endless adventuring and giveaway lootdrops
Thanks for the feedback guys, however I have just today reached level 50 for the third time in a little over 2 years....as I came back before the weapons were taken out of the loot it wasnt so hard. However, my daughter is playing settlers now and is nearly mid range in levels and is struggling with getting weapons. For those of us that have played since the inception or just after of the game, its not hard for us to adapt to the changes that have been made, although it would be nice to see the elite weapons (xbow, dammy's, and cannon's) put back into the adventure loot. Even if its only 100 of each or just of one. Its truly hard to balance your cannon production to get a good result. In saying that I'm not giving up on settlers.
Sharpielein
27.12.14, 13:13
I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.
The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.
... due to errors, bugs, glitches, server-side messups and not to mention glitches and whatever ...
I would totally agree with you if it was not for things that are (at least from my side) obviously problems caused by BlueByte totally outside the sphere of control of the players.
Why should players be tremendously punished for things they can not control?
Taste:
Major had 150 Cannons, 12 Recruits and 1 Elite left from previous kill.
Unload Major. Assign 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons for next kill.
Exit assignment menu.
Wait.
See that Major shows up in the adventure with mouse-over of 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons.
Triple-Check confirmed.
Assign Major to attack camp.
Major travels, showing 188Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons.
Major attacks.
"Your general has been defeated ..." --- What ???
Combat log: Major engaged combat with 12 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons - and got smacked.
Send ticket to Support.
BlueByte stance: "You could try exiting the browser, clearing the cache and reloading between each mouse click you make" (in essence)
I am fortunate to have stocked up quite decently before the recent changes, but I pity the new players who have just saved up to get their 200 Cannoneers and have this happen to them - not to mention that it takes roughly 1 day to rebuild 5 Cannoneers if you only have a lv1 Cannon Forge (I didn't have the luxury of owning a lv5 cannon forge until October) --- presuming you have gazillions of resources saved up.
People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.
That would hold equally true if from time to time at unpredictable intervals, there was a meteor shower obliterating your island, destroying buildings and reducing you by a couple of levels. Losing troops to bugs is about as meaningful as losing them due to preprogrammed events that are outside player control. It still doesn't mean that the game becomes more enjoyable because of this.
To be blatantly clear here:
As long as there is the odd random uncontrollable element of losing 1-5 months of progress thanks to whatever game glitch, it's only fair that players have a way to recoup their losses because it's a terrible turn-off to lose so much progress and then get only a "idc, your problem for playing such a bug-ridden game" from BB.
Whilst I stand by my previous post regarding weapons dropping from Loot I do agree you with Sharpielein in that the bugs that BB have introduced into the game make the situation intolerable on high level adventures.
They really do need to sort out this mess as to lose high level troops due to your playing choices is one thing, to lose them due to the incompetence of the game provider is another - and I didn't mention this in my earlier post as I didn't want to detract from the thread. Although if there is anything that will kill this game, its the incompetence of the development community!
Sharpielein
27.12.14, 14:59
Fish,
We can't count on BB to fix the glitches they don't even admit exist or to be problematic.
Therefore, a different solution is required, and as it stands, the only feasible short-term solution is to reintroduce weapon drops.
Mid-term or long-term, that may be a different thing and I am -at least partially- inclined to agree with you that the past overabundance of weapons made the game too easy.
But as it stands now, the inability to maintain a decent army due to problems with the game calls for a short-term solution or new players will leave in frustration and when there is a lack of "fresh blood", the game is dead. And you can't count on the consistent charity of lv50's to keep the game interesting, because that's a poor substitute for proper gameplay as well.
Genuine sincere question : why are those of you who like adventuring still doing them when there are so many bugs causing you problems?
Why don't you concentrate on your home islands (ie producing stuff you'll need etc) until the bugs are fixed, so you don't lose those expensive units?
Because:
a) The game would be to boring
b) There is no recognition from BB that the behaviour that we all complain about is a bug so if we wait for them to fix it we may as well quit now
c) It isn't buggy on every adventure every time so its like a lottery and we do like a lottery
d) We live in hope
e) We are deluded
I for one have stopped doing Fairytale adventures and concentrate on the smaller quicker adventures that don't seem to exhibit the same issues so often. For me that's Pirates, Bandit Nest, Traitors, Surprise Attack and the occasional Black Knights.
Genuine sincere question : why are those of you who like adventuring still doing them when there are so many bugs causing you problems?
Why don't you concentrate on your home islands (ie producing stuff you'll need etc) until the bugs are fixed, so you don't lose those expensive units?
Because of granite. Period
Because of granite. Period
But isn't that becoming a catch-22 situation?
Advs are dropping way less granite, so you have to do more of them, so you experience the bugs more often and lose more units, so you may have to upgrade your weapon production to replace them , so you need more granite, but advs are dropping way less granite so....and on and on
http://static.cdn.ubi.com/0034/int/general/2016_09_ghostevent/ghost_icon_white_black.png
Absolutely, but only because of BBs incompotence to tackle the bugs or to even make up their minds what is it that they want from us.
I see.
This is why I think there should be a far more involved, challenging, resource-rewarding, settlement-managing side to the game.
At the moment we have adventuring (combat) and PVP/PVE (also combat)
Both have numerous problems with playability according to those who do them.
So what can those players do if they can't do combat?
If there was another interesting way of playing/progressing then you could at least do that (assuming it isn't bugged to death as well)
Everyone can do combat, the only thing is, is it rewarding enough to do so? It appears to me that dev team responsible for loot changes and balance of colonies doesn't play the game at all, or they are testing it on test server with full storhouses...basically they live in paralel universe.
Well as I've said, I think the loot changes have been made to encourage players to use those high-end weapon production chain buildings.
What needs changing/balancing now is the amount of resources needed and the production times to make it more fair.
I do agree that wherever the devs make changes there will be knock-on effects and it's in THOSE areas that balancing needs to be looked at.
Perhaps you need some kind of testing area to let them know.............:D
Because of granite. Period
Not for me. I have plenty of Granite so its about something to do inside the game and the Star Coins are the bonus.
This is why I think there should be a far more involved, challenging, resource-rewarding, settlement-managing side to the game.
At the moment we have adventuring (combat) and PVP/PVE (also combat)
Both have numerous problems with playability according to those who do them.
So what can those players do if they can't do combat?
Strange, many think its a economy trading style game - its many things to different people.
I know its already been suggested that a small amount of Epic Weapons could be dropped in some adventures but even then the worry for BB would be that most people continue to not lose the weapons on the non Fairytale adventures and as such even a small amount of these weapons would be enough to ensure nobody bothered to run their Epic Weapon buildings. I am still happy with the balance as it stands. If people don't want to invest in those high end weapon buildings then let them have Soldiers but no Crossbows, Elites or Cannons. In fact it would be nice to see BB tie the use of troops to the ownership of a building. That way everyone at higher levels would at least have to invest in the buildings to be able to use the troops.
Genuine sincere question : why are those of you who like adventuring still doing them when there are so many bugs causing you problems?
Why don't you concentrate on your home islands (ie producing stuff you'll need etc) until the bugs are fixed, so you don't lose those expensive units?
because if you use your head you can avoid all the bugs. sure its tedious but it works. probly why BB isn't in a hurry to fix them, they see 10ppl complain on the forums while thousands are doing them without issues.
because production is mostly irrelevant.
because if you use your head you can avoid all the bugs. sure its tedious but it works. probly why BB isn't in a hurry to fix them, they see 10ppl complain on the forums while thousands are doing them without issues.
because production is mostly irrelevant.
So everyone who was affected by bugs is not using thir heads? Pathetic....
Sharpielein
28.12.14, 08:38
Genuine sincere question : why are those of you who like adventuring still doing them when there are so many bugs causing you problems?
Why don't you concentrate on your home islands (ie producing stuff you'll need etc) until the bugs are fixed, so you don't lose those expensive units?
Genuine answer from my side:
Because the only buildings on my island which aren't lv6 are those which can't be upgraded beyond level 5 (aside from the Nobles, which are still longing to be replaced with Towers) and because the only resources which I still need are Exwood, Titanium and Saltpeter - since they don't grow on my island.
And because I'm already running 10 buffed Iron Mines 24/7 and it's a major annoyance spending about 2 hours/day ...
... and maybe because I've purchased Premium for real money and don't see why I should give BB free money for nothing I can use just because they provide inferior service!
Sharpielein
28.12.14, 08:43
because if you use your head you can avoid all the bugs. sure its tedious but it works. probly why BB isn't in a hurry to fix them, they see 10ppl complain on the forums while thousands are doing them without issues.
because production is mostly irrelevant.
Yes. The solution is obvious.
Relocate to a different city, buy a new house, get a new internet connection and buy a new computer after each mouse click in an adventure.
Why didn't I think of that before? :rolleyes:
Or, even simpler:
Avoid this bugged product altogether.
There is not a lot of bugs on adventures. Only one. It's periodical and "only" visual.
The evil thing is that the information given to the player, makes him or her counter act.
Do not trust what you read or see - trust that you did the clicking right, when you sent the attack(s).
Sharpielein
28.12.14, 10:18
We've completely derailed the thread, so let's all just agree to come back to the original suggestion.
In my opinion, weapons in loot should not be removed completely, yet they should be proportional to the difficulty of the adventure and a small "bonus", not as excessive as they were in the past.
Imagine if all adventures had 1-2 "weapon slots":
- Mini adventures: 20-50 Bronze Swords/Bows
- Regular adventures: 50-100 Bronze Swords/Bows or 20-50 Iron Swords/Longbows
- Epic adventures: 50-100 Iron Swords/Longbows or 20-50 Crossbows/Steel Swords
- Fairytale adventures: 50-100 Crossbows/Steel Swords or 20-50 Cannons/Damascene Swords
The math: 50 Steel Swords is 5 Soldiers, a 20 Crossbow reward would barely be enough to produce 2 Crossbowmen, so it would statistically take roughly 150 Epic adventures to build up an army of 200 Crossbowmen and -thinking Roaring Bull- that's well over 3 Million XP, sufficient to get well past level 50!
Wouldn't break the balance, players wouldn't bank millions of weapons, but would be a sufficient influx to make sure that players can occasionally find some on the Trade Office to build up their army without needing level5 forges.
There is not a lot of bugs on adventures. Only one. It's periodical and "only" visual.
The evil thing is that the information given to the player, makes him or her counter act.
Do not trust what you read or see - trust that you did the clicking right, when you sent the attack(s).
Do not trust your eyes eh? What is this game?
Moreover, I had a bug yesterday intercepting my major without single sound, information or message that he was interepted although everything was sent right in an adventure that I do with my eyes closed.....how bout that?
Yes. The solution is obvious.
Relocate to a different city, buy a new house, get a new internet connection and buy a new computer after each mouse click in an adventure.
Why didn't I think of that before? :rolleyes:
Or, even simpler:
Avoid this bugged product altogether.
lol it has nothing to do with your internet connections, computer or mouse :rolleyes: only BB is at fault and we all know it.
instead of triple checking (which does nothing in the current state of things) you could refresh the island by going back home and then back to make sure your troops are still assigned properly (takes about 5 seconds). this way i NEVER got the unloading bug (i got it once then i figured out why).
i might be tedious but it works. takes less time then doing this crap anyways
Unload Major. Assign 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons for next kill.
Exit assignment menu.
Wait.
See that Major shows up in the adventure with mouse-over of 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons.
Triple-Check confirmed.
or just quit i dont really care either way
If the loot for most of the adventures wasn't nerfed when they decided to rebalance, then adventuring the same as before the change wouldn't be so bad.
Its disappointing they totally missed the reason many adventures were undesirable in the first place too, with such high losses, average xp and awful loot.
Also the amount of time required for many adventures is an issue. High numbers of troops needing to be sent over to the adventure island taking many hours unless you have many generals is something I hope they fix.
Lastly, lootspots was never intended to be sold as such, but adventures are almost always completed by 1 player and the other places being sold on trade requiring 1 kill to receive full loot. These are being sold at prices which require premium time to break even or profit. Are BB even aware of this situation?
Salem_Warrior_1
30.12.14, 06:49
I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.
The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.
Additionally people have said many times on this forum that they no longer feel the need for the large bread lines they once had due to the number of settlers dropped from adventures and the extra settlers available from Village Schools. Also with the inclusion of grout many buildings are able to be upgraded to Level 6. These factors mean that many people will be complaining about loss of weapons but still have islands that overproduce lots of basics which they are happy to sell for profit. Maybe people will realise that they cant have an island that over produces in one area for trade purposes but then under produces in another area such as weapons without having a price to pay.
I don't even see Iron production being an issue, lots of iron is now becoming available with extra Iron or Iron Fillers being dropped in loot. I do think coal will be a problem but then again this is where those that have the Epic Workyard (or 2) will be at an advantage and as such those that invest in Gems will again see them selves at a time advantage over free to play players.
We are getting to a position where Epic Adventures truly are truly Epic (with the XP and Star Coins being the main reward and not just a profit source) whilst Fairytale Adventures are the types of adventure that cant be done in 3-4 hours anymore but do become the Adventures for those that are not faint of heart and have the resources to undertake a deed of hardship and worthy of Fairytales in the quest for those mythical rewards. Rather than the situation today where a decent player is able to get all the items worth having from beans and beanstalks within a month.
People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.
Regards
fish
totally agree im balanced so can be done
making the game easier will make it stale
At my point of view (playing lev. 42 atm) Game creator made little hesitate decision to change all loots to be as one.
I would suggest to adjust the loots little bit to meet requirements (levels) and losses.
For example short but great adv ML gives totally nothing valuable at loots anymore. Earlier you at least knew that you will get something special for sure. I don´t think that getting one 300 omniseed deposit/500 golddeposit will cover the loss you do with cavalry and soldiers. Same happened with BK loots, not so great anymore.
It could be that total value of loots is equal with losses, but the loots are so boring atm. No variations, always the same drop.
Also it seems that drop% of rare buildings and follow up adventures has been lowered rapidly. Before changes got at least some of them, but since the changes has been made, nothing.
It is good that players have to produce own weapons, but this total change feels little unfair to new players. Especially when those players who got so much valuable items earlier from loots are pushing TO prices so high.
Suggest: Change loots to be at least little bit more exciting, one drop of 50can/100damsword/150xbow/bookfitting/ etc would do that for advs lev 36 and higher.
150bronzewep/100ironsword/80steelsword/150bow/100lb would be at easy/medium advs.
There are many good points for loots now, but I would still take old ones if it would be possible.
And one thing, I don´t want to do adv I would loose my xbows or elitesodiers because of new loots. Too valuable to loose those troops now, when weapons are so expencive.
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