View Full Version : Minimum level for joining guild
Ok, so guild recruitment via the forums doesn't work terribly well, we all know this. Most people join the game and go straight to G1 or help and almost as soon as they say anything they are spammed with guild requests, many probably think "oh nice" and sign up there and then.
They don't ever find the forums or if they do it's weeks later, it's just not human nature to read the forums before playing the game. Even if pointed to forums when asking about guilds by a mod or more experienced player they still don't go....
This makes recruitment via the official route extremely difficult, I have one member from the post on here, other guilds I've spoken to have done little or no better. This leaves us with the unfortunate choice of not getting any new people or pretty much breaking the same rule the spammers are.
You often see some unfortunate noob asking something in help, then the next day complete with guild tag (one of several that are well known on northisle but I'm not naming and shaming, however ask youself "guild xxx #6?" what's that about?) asking something in help and g1 and when questioned as to why they don't ask in their new guild, they respond "there's nobody there to help....."
The only easy fix I can think of is a minimum level to join a guild, this at least gives new people time to find out how it all works before they get spammed with requests and they can take their time to do it right, which of course is what the official method is supposed to achieve but sadly it seems mostly doesn't. And I don't mean level 5, say 20 or even 30, there is no massive benefit early on to guilds, and many people start this game and give up around then as it's not a fast paced game and they discover it's not for them so it's better for guilds too.
Anyone got any other ideas?
The new guild quest mechanic which is currently on test is a kick in the face for the vampire guilds.
Yes, I think that level 20 should be the lowest level one is allowed to join a guild. In our guild it's the opposite: we have it in our guild info that we only recruit through the forum but our leader still gets spammed by random join requests and they don't even send a mail with it, we can't tell who they are, what level they are, if they even understand English, and we then end up kicking them a few weeks later after never having seen them active while we don't have free space for potential new guild members who might stay in the game.
The other day I saw someone in the help channel asking why their Tavern doesn't produce any stone. They had a guild tag, but barely any grasp of the basics of the game. And clearly not getting much support for the game. That's basically everything that's wrong with the current system right there.
It is frustrating for those of us who help people only to see them "poached" by guilds who you never see anywhere doing anything. Just becasue one doens't spam every poor newbie in chat. Maybe they end up somewhere and get help, one can only hope. But it also means it totally undermines the premsie of how guilds should be operating and the motivation to be a supportive and helpful member of the community.
Bluesavanah
14.12.15, 16:20
I advocated a minimum level in some other thread ages ago. The trouble with guilds recruiting in settlers are multiple.
1. bad guilds pounce on anyone and everyone that speaks in a global channel
2. the forum for recruiting policy doesn't work, probably 99% of players are in guilds by the time they find the forum.
3. the guild shield doesn't really work, people soon get bored of clicking buttons backwards and forwards trying to get info.
Somehow incorporating looking at the recruitment section of the forum into the tutorial and setting a minimum level might work, but honestly I think it's a bit late to be doing it. Once active members really matter the bad guilds will up their game and will be spamming invites even more than they do now.
As examples my Northisle character accepted one of these random invites out of curiosity when I started it a good while ago from a fairly infamous at the time guild, on that day they had sent 42 invites. This character actually applied to a infamous Sandycove guild when I first started and stayed there a few months they regularly sent out 30-40 invites per day, everyday for the entire time I was there.
The new guild quest system will stop the mass invites as every guild member that doesn't complete their quest in 24h lowers the reward that those guild members that complete it will get.
Mortallicus
14.12.15, 17:23
The main problem with Advertising our Guilds is not whether people find the forum or look in their shield but the fact that the majority of us do not know how to market ourselves well. The viewing figures are good. How many guilds do not think about their names and tags and the impact on membership and do not add anything about themselves to the shield.
Also there is not a lot to differentiate between us. We need more help from BB some lists of items that Guilds can choose from to help make their guild a little different. Buildings (decorational is fine). A special buff not tradeable. Cups and awards, etc.
I also think that there should be a raise in the level to join a guild. Maybe at the end of the tutorial quests. Or when you get the Trade Office at least.
Also Guilds bad mouthing and constantly moaning about other guilds is a very bad image to give for your own. Back in the olden days of 2011/12/13 Guilds did not know whether alliances would be important in this game. So a few set up xyz1, 2 etc. Some have gone and others have continued. Whatever is thought of them they have the membership , many stay with them. So just ignore the guild's you do not like. Or join them to find out whether what you believe is true.
Bluesavanah
15.12.15, 00:00
The new guild quest system will stop the mass invites as every guild member that doesn't complete their quest in 24h lowers the reward that those guild members that complete it will get.
under the old system a guild quest is allocated at level 10 or above, I'm going to take a guess and say under level 10 won't count in the score so nothing will change.
The main problem with Advertising our Guilds is not whether people find the forum or look in their shield but the fact that the majority of us do not know how to market ourselves well. The viewing figures are good. How many guilds do not think about their names and tags and the impact on membership and do not add anything about themselves to the shield.
Also there is not a lot to differentiate between us. We need more help from BB some lists of items that Guilds can choose from to help make their guild a little different. Buildings (decorational is fine). A special buff not tradeable. Cups and awards, etc.
I also think that there should be a raise in the level to join a guild. Maybe at the end of the tutorial quests. Or when you get the Trade Office at least.
Also Guilds bad mouthing and constantly moaning about other guilds is a very bad image to give for your own. Back in the olden days of 2011/12/13 Guilds did not know whether alliances would be important in this game. So a few set up xyz1, 2 etc. Some have gone and others have continued. Whatever is thought of them they have the membership , many stay with them. So just ignore the guild's you do not like. Or join them to find out whether what you believe is true.
All of this may well be true, however, if they don't even see your advertising before a vampire guild (nice term), sucks them up (to continue the theme), the point is moot.
Besides, check ours it has a nice artwork by a guildie and everything, we are trying to advertise nicely.
Mortallicus
15.12.15, 16:04
All of this may well be true, however, if they don't even see your advertising before a vampire guild (nice term), sucks them up (to continue the theme), the point is moot.
Well just how many poor new players are there? To make such a broad assumption you must know how many and who are the 'vampire' guilds. So many make these remarks and usually about the 'wrong' guilds. Personally, I would rather accept , ignore and work around then make a mistake and sabotage a guild because i saw a new player 'today' turn into a player with their tag in 10 minutes.
Many new are higher levels on other servers. Most are adults and intelligent but sadly and insultingly assumed not. Also while they are saying in Global that they are only level 5 they are hitting that apply to a guild button. But hey blame the guild that accepts them in public, insult them and the new player. (By the way for those that do not know when the Apply Button is hit the Guild Leader has no idea what level you are until you are in the Guild. We have had levels 1 to 50 apply this way).
They can be better off in a guild if they participate with the other members. The vast majority of guilds are very good it is a small minority that perhaps are not.
The new Guild Quest system i hope will liven all the guilds up. It is not the Guilds fault that up to now there are benefits in having higher numbers in the guild. But I believe having too many non actives far from motivates a guild and actually causes active members to leave.
We have never sent an unsolicited Guild invite. Some of our members have received them though. When they report it I write to the guild concerned politely.Also if it happens more than once i advise our member to report the person for harassment. I will never ever call those guilds names. That is school kid tactics . If you give a guild a bad label then it can take them years to get rid of it and why should up to 100 people who get along and play nicely together suffer for the sins of an old leader. Though i am sure all keep up with all that guild's news and movements within it before you insult them.
I will support an increase in level as i have said before but for vastly different reasons from some who post.
I have said enough about this on other similar threads over the last few months so will say no more. :)
Sure, it works both ways, I for one never assume a person with such a tag is a gullible fool, far from it, I said they were unfortunate, and I wasn't using the term "noob" in a pejorative sense in this case.
But to suggest that you cannot know which these guilds are, is in my view incorrect. I could (but obviously won't here) give you a few names.
Well just how many poor new players are there?
I've seen at least a dozen the last few months.
Many new are higher levels on other servers.
So you are saying the other servers have a completely different game then because the players I see do not manage to complete the tutorial mission yet have been invited to guilds.
Also while they are saying in Global that they are only level 5 they are hitting that apply to a guild button.
Except that many are not. They get invited or even badgered by someone to join. They may even have no idea what it is they are joining.
Case in point from today in chat:
[xx:xx] [GUILDTAG] UserName: I was invited to the guild, I don't even know how to engage with them :(
That's just so wrong on so many levels.
Well just how many poor new players are there? To make such a broad assumption you must know how many and who are the 'vampire' guilds. So many make these remarks and usually about the 'wrong' guilds. Personally, I would rather accept , ignore and work around then make a mistake and sabotage a guild because i saw a new player 'today' turn into a player with their tag in 10 minutes.
Many new are higher levels on other servers. Most are adults and intelligent but sadly and insultingly assumed not. Also while they are saying in Global that they are only level 5 they are hitting that apply to a guild button. But hey blame the guild that accepts them in public, insult them and the new player. (By the way for those that do not know when the Apply Button is hit the Guild Leader has no idea what level you are until you are in the Guild. We have had levels 1 to 50 apply this way).
They can be better off in a guild if they participate with the other members. The vast majority of guilds are very good it is a small minority that perhaps are not.
As for the issue of not knowing what level a player is, for my guild it clearly states that they must supply their level on their application or it will be rejected.
The new Guild Quest system i hope will liven all the guilds up. It is not the Guilds fault that up to now there are benefits in having higher numbers in the guild. But I believe having too many non actives far from motivates a guild and actually causes active members to leave.
We have never sent an unsolicited Guild invite. Some of our members have received them though. When they report it I write to the guild concerned politely.Also if it happens more than once i advise our member to report the person for harassment. I will never ever call those guilds names. That is school kid tactics . If you give a guild a bad label then it can take them years to get rid of it and why should up to 100 people who get along and play nicely together suffer for the sins of an old leader. Though i am sure all keep up with all that guild's news and movements within it before you insult them.
I will support an increase in level as i have said before but for vastly different reasons from some who post.
I have said enough about this on other similar threads over the last few months so will say no more. :)
First naming the vampire guilds will I believe result in MODS removing forum privileges of anyone who does so. Actually I can think of one with a very apt tag.
As for your statement that many new are experienced players is not one I can support. Just to remind you they recently added this game to Steam which caused a large influx of new people and we are still seeing new Steam players even though the game received rather negative reviews on steam.
As for the issue of not knowing what level a player is. Our guild page clearly states that they must supply their player level or face their application being rejected, and they they must be both of a minimum player level and that our chat may not be suitable for players under the age of 25.
Mortallicus
15.12.15, 23:20
The point I have been making is that there are all types of new players, some experienced, different ages etc. What i see is all new players lumped together as a certain type and that I think is so wrong. I am not saying you are all totally wrong. A small minority may need protection of some sort but I believe thats not just our job but BBs. Blaming guilds of doing something wrong because it looks like it when you dont know all the facts is worse still. The majority of guilds are great and most new players can look after themselves. Name calling and joking nastily at both that guild's expense and the new player in global is cruel. Its better nowadays and I want to keep it that way not for myself but for other new guilds who get a bit bored and look for people to chat with in global. All the points i have made are based on my own personal experience.
If you see something wrong then report it, especially you Dorotheus as you seem to feel you have evidence. Everyone should set out to make a good difference not be nasty and name calling. All that genuinely think there is something wrong could really make a good difference for everyone if dealt with in the right way. Report all wrong doing and rule breaking and take the screenshots. Last year i was so bullied and without doing anything wrong I started to believe it was a recruitment tactic by other guilds - chasing out the imagined competition Things have improved vastly as far as I can see dont spoil it by taking a retrograde step.
I have run a guild before on this server for nearly 3 years and reputation is everything to me as I am sure it is to most but the name calling etc some do ruins this for guilds that are doing nothing wrong and it can take a long time to repair. Just make sure you get your facts right , think first and take screenshots. This is what I have done in the past. The new Guild Quests I think will stop a lot of unsolicited guild invites and guilds holding onto empty seats just because they can and it gets them to the first page in the shield.
I think the level for joining or creating a guild could be higher.
I noticed a player in global and help tab had been asking questions on and off for a few days. He had a guild tag.
When we chatted in whisper turns out this L 35 player had never received any game help or in game info from anyone in his guild, no one had explained the lootspot system (or offered him a lootspot). He asked question after question and said that in three hours chatting he learned more from me that he had the whole time he had been in his guild. Needless to say, he dumped them and applied to us.
He was one of those who had been pounced upon when he was still a relatively low level....
On the forum we clearly state we need people to be L 17+ and at least 21 years of age. BUT when people are pounced on and dragged into guilds at anything from L 4 on up just so the guild can make up bigger numbers to get bigger ggc rewards, and the incredibly daft system for guild recruitment does not work......changes would not only be welcome, imo they are essential!!
Yes, incorporate the guild option into the tutorial as a post L 17 extra quest.... add ons are easier than add ins. And add on something that prevents someone joining a guild before L 10 (my preference would be before L 17, if they got that far it indicates some understanding of the game and a willingness to actually play it).
AND introduce a system of bans for guilds who spam invites. Yes, I know there is a system atm, it doesn't work! A guild wide ban of all players in a guild (for one week)who spam invites would soon sort that prob out!
Mortallicus
16.12.15, 13:01
Zeeta
Some months ago i joined Sandycove to see how the game changes affected new players. I must say i didnt receive a single Guild Invite and yes i was using another name :D I did receive friend requests , but not too many. It was so nice i felt an absolute heel experimenting and stopped play not long after the end of the tutorial. I tried to be objective and stuck totally to the tutorial and actually felt a bit lost when it ended. I had little gold coin and the game was not as easy as I thought it would be. But that was my personal experience. I do think Northisle would be a bit different I think there might be more players for one thing. But don't know.
I also agree with the punishing of guilds who spam invites. A guild wide ban of all players seems a bit harsh if they knew nothing about it. I think perhaps a ban for the one that carries out the deed and maybe the leader too as they should have some control. Other guild members would probably leave the guild if it falls into disrepute with BB.
Personally, I'd prefer a system that simply didn't allow a player to join a guild until they were past the tutorial at level 17. At that point, the tutorial could suggest that if they want to join a guild, they could follow the appropriate link (and give link the the recruit section of the forum). Then all recruiting and applying would ONLY be done through the forum, not in game at all.
But since I don't see that ever being implemented the next best thing would be to introduce a minimum level, as has been suggested.
I firmly believe that vulture guilds should be held responsible for looking after their members. If they are doing players, and therefore, the game a disservice then they should be held accountable in some way. Unfortunately, this is also something that is unlikely to occur in any official way. Instead, all that we can do is advise new players against joining them- without naming, of course. But if you lead or are a part of a guild that has a poor reputation, maybe instead of complaining about how players treat your new members when they go into Help and ask a basic game question, you could direct your energies to actually giving them some assistance?
It's also worth noting that if a guild or player keeps sending out random invites, it is considered spam and can be reported to BB who will treat it the same way as chat spamming. Don't forget to screen shot it!
Mortallicus
16.12.15, 17:54
Small guilds would find it hard to man their guilds for 24/7 and I think even the larger guilds do have down times albeit not for long maybe. Also some members are short of time or impatient so they want answers via the fastest route. Waiting another 10 mins for someone to wake up might be too long.
Maybe set up a few guilds for levels 1 - 17 only - run by Mods or players chosen by BB. Of course those running them could not have an interest in any other guild. All new players could be auto tagged and enter a guild as part of tutorial.
The idea of tutorial guilds looks good on paper at first glance, how would you suggest the loot spot problem gets handled.
Dorotheus, I'm not sure I understand your point. Loot spots wouldn't be an issue until level 26+ for a vast majority of players.
I love the idea of a tutorial guild but I think it would have to be run by volunteer players if it were to happen at all. Have the leader and a handful of experienced players as officers who's intent would be to guide new players with advice, links, hints and tips would be a wonderful idea but I would find it difficult to believe BB would consider it in any official way is it would need monitoring and that would be near impossible from their point of view. If I could run a second guild, I'd consider it but my Intel guild comes first.
Ok lets put that one on the back burner for now.
We can't make membership of a tutorial guild mandatory. There are many valid reasons why a player may not wish to join a guild ranging from religious to plain shyness.
Secondly how to know in advance how many of these sort of guilds would be needed. Thirdly there is catering for those who have very little English. Then we have the problem defining the exit conditions, hence me asking about loot spots.
Dorotheus- I see your logic now.
No, guild membership should never be mandatory, I agree.
I'm not sure it would be needful to know in advance how many would be needed. Players would apply as they wished from an early level, if it became full then a new guild would be started (ideally), which brings me to the last of your points- as players level up in the tutorial guild, they would encouraged to stretch their wings after the end of the tutorial. Say level 20 for an easy cut-off marker. With a constant incoming/outgoing of such a guild, there would regularly be spaces available.
I'm not suggesting they'd get booted at level 20, merely encouraged to look for a guild suitable for their needs from the forum info. Or maybe they'd prefer to stay and become some kind of helper- that sort of thing would have to be ironed out if it ever happened. Loot spots wouldn't be an issue until they joined a "real" guild.
I know it's unlikely to ever happen, but I do like the idea of it. I'm certain we'd lose fewer players!
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