Gen Science

[djnelson99]

Been having a look at the new skill tree (thanx BB!), and have come up with the following as my initial thoughts on how best to upgrade (for me anyhow - everyone will be different I am sure).... just interested in any thoughts others may have on what skills they feel is important?

I'll be posting my SLT setups for the skills below, so a comparison to existing setups can be made. Feel free to take and use (at your own risk lol - but I have done quite a few runs on these now), for any gens you have skilled up as mine are. I would not use them for other skill sets.

As an addendum, I haven't really used the following skills:
First Aid - troops production is hardly an issue with L6 barracks, skunks and rec guides available. Actually seeing the benefits of this skill now. I have added 3x First aid for suicide BHGs to give 'savings' on attacks (albeit refunds - the net effect is the same - less losses)
Sniper Training - Figured LB use may be a good one for Nusala only?
Fast Learner - At higher levels, XP gets less and less to go ;o)
Cleave - Don't really have attacks that comprise of many ES
Confident Leader - Happy with my blocks as they are, and if I wanted any that could last longer (as opposed to reducing kill time), I'd just stack another 1R atk into the block.
Lightning Slash - extra atk from gen as Last Strike - when gens have low atk value, it's pointless - good for Champs with high atks only?
Bounty Hunter - once you get Pathfinder, and enough minis from loots, you swim in Star Coins anyway!

Now I've pulled the pin, I'll stand back and read with interest :D

Updated tree 16th May 17. Right or wrong, this is where I am going with this, but may change 1 or 2 MMA to be 'Attack MMAs' and skill accordingly, with Master Planner: Decided that MMAs with 1-up is far better. The question to ask is, 'Do I use MMAs for proper attacks with Cannons/Besiegers (proper full attacks like an MG), or for suicide runs (whether 1R or full of troops)? If mainly suicides, then Master Planner just won't get much benefit (imho!). The argument against is 'Where can you use so many MMA suicides?' I have found plenty and still yet to sim for 2x1R MMA suicides on the same camp to see if that provides good benefits too.
Thanx to all that have input, or posted thoughts in other threads.
https://image.prntscr.com/image/333468df8d5d4b2d9078f59266a7f280.png

[Thejollyone]

If I understood the description correctly, Juggernaut affects the general only, not his troops, for that reason I have chosen to ignore that and use the First Aid instead as the base filler and gain more from it than otherwise.

[djnelson99]

If I understood the description correctly, Juggernaut affects the general only, not his troops, for that reason I have chosen to ignore that and use the First Aid instead as the base filler and gain more from it than otherwise.

You are correct - I have used as a 'base filler' to get to the next level mostly too. It gives a reasonable extra punch to the normal gens, but for the champs it's a small increase in atk damage, and they have splash damage anyway. hmmm, perhaps Va & An would be better placed with only 2x Juggernaught as a base filler, freeing another book somewhere else in the tree....

[BB_Saqui]

If I understood the description correctly, Juggernaut affects the general only, not his troops

This is correct!

[Faststriker]

Just a few thing.. But that is seen from the way i like to play the game.

I almost agree for your setup for MG´s i´m just not sure how much worth those 2 points in UC is. I might go with it, might not.

The suicide gens i´m not going for the JaFW, I have enough gens to not make it worth it. And for the MMA´s most adv. will take less time to complete so will not get to use them a third time. So will just use those points in FA and Jugg instead. But i do see it for people with a lot less gens than others.. And just for that reason i would suggest going for 1-up on normal suicide gens also. Including Garrison Annex. These however when everything else is skilled first as that have higher priority.

Nothing to say to the 3 COA´s other than the same for MMA.. See no use for JaFW on Nusala. Same reason.

And i wont skill any vet or BHG for attacks, i´m happy with only using my MG´s and COA as i would just take the wrong gen for the different attacks.

For the TG and MoD i think the same. And also here when everything else is done i will fill them up and give them full FA, RF, JaFW (just in case of mistakes) and GA, then there is 2 more to use on something that doesnt do anything for blocks and then get 1-up just in case.

[djnelson99]

Thanx Faststriker - good points on JaFW. I am no slouch on advs, so correct - they probably won't recover in time, even with 3 books.
Atk vets are last to do anyway - my main atks are predominantly MG and CoA too.

...and if we get to the point where books are surplus to just fill out the TVG tree and suicide gens, then it's probably time to hand over the account to grandchildren ;o)

[djnelson99]

Additional:

3x Nav Crash Course = fast gens travel time of 8mins 15secs

QMs need to upgrade speed in order to get to adv with fast gens, so am considering:

http://image.prntscr.com/image/1df1f154d0c843a18771078d31939b78.png

This means load capacity of 1350, with a travel time of 9mins 14secs (so the QMs arrive 1min after the fast gens, which means they go to star if LZ full, and you can have had your fast gens land and start to move to positions as they arrive), which seems a fair compromise of speed vs load capacity to me.

EDIT:
Changed to the following to give 10:54 travel time and 1515 load capacity, as my main gens MG, CoA, etc are all on 2x Nav Crash Course, which is 10:30 travel time:

https://image.prntscr.com/image/B24HoFrTS8CgNBaU5tk0vg.png

[djnelson99]

First Aid recovered troops get loaded into the gen that did the killing, so recovering gen = trapped troops. Something to bear in mind.

http://image.prntscr.com/image/e3358774c151446eb73916fd9d3a90f7.png

[Mannerheim]

Additional:

3x Nav Crash Course = fast gens travel time of 8mins 15secs

QMs need to upgrade speed in order to get to adv with fast gens, so am considering:

...

This means load capacity of 1350, with a travel time of 9mins 14secs (so the QMs arrive 1min after the fast gens, which means they go to star if LZ full, and you can have had your fast gens land and start to move to positions as they arrive), which seems a fair compromise of speed vs load capacity to me.

Nice. I was originally going for a full navigation skill set for QM but after your analysis I'm gonna use the one you showed :)

[Satyr1448]

first-aid returns so few troops anyway that its probably only usefull as a filler for tavern gens to be able to teach them navigation

[Bluesavanah]

first-aid returns so few troops anyway that its probably only usefull as a filler for tavern gens to be able to teach them navigation

you might think that, then examine a general doing multiple camp attacks getting 9% of your troops back opens up new possibilities.

If you do a lot of adventures I would seriously get your calculator out and do a rough estimate of what 9% of your bronze sword / platinum sword, brew and breadmen ( if you use them) works out to be over a year.

To the OP consider Fast learner on MG (3/3) and either 2/3 or 3/3 in confident leader (dropping weekly maintenance and master planner), push blocking generals up to Garrison annex.

From a personal perspective I cannot see the point in Navigation crash course in any general other than ls general and taverns. Unless you don't block then it might be worthwhile.

[Mannerheim]

you might think that, then examine a general doing multiple camp attacks getting 9% of your troops back opens up new possibilities.

If you do a lot of adventures I would seriously get your calculator out and do a rough estimate of what 9% of your bronze sword / platinum sword, brew and breadmen ( if you use them) works out to be over a year.


I also think its pretty good and currently plan to skill everyone with it meaning regardless which guide I use or what other skills have I will save ~9% of the total losses. It's a significant amount of resources and barracks time when ie. calculated in Evil Queen chain total losses. It's also pretty fast and cheap skill to get to all gens since I can make the books to max it for ~5 generals per day.



From a personal perspective I cannot see the point in Navigation crash course in any general other than ls general and taverns. Unless you don't block then it might be worthwhile.

This depends of the play style but especially during events its pretty good with small advs as you save roughly ~14 minutes per adventure (to and from adv). It's a significant amount when chaining adventure runs while running on a 1d premium.

[djnelson99]

first-aid returns so few troops anyway that its probably only usefull as a filler for tavern gens to be able to teach them navigation

Correct. FA only as a filler to get to Nav for TVGs - Juggernaught and Rapid Fire may upset blocks, so you can truly only use FA and Jog for manus for TVGs.

...and to be fair, TVGs rarely have any losses as they are Block gens only for me. Once you have enough suicide BHGs/Vets, that is.

[djnelson99]

To the OP consider Fast learner on MG (3/3) and either 2/3 or 3/3 in confident leader (dropping weekly maintenance and master planner), push blocking generals up to Garrison annex.

Perhaps for lower levels. I should be L75 by September if all goes well. TO have FL would be a waste for me.

...That said..... if BB ever raises L75 to Lxxx, I'd want FL on all main atk gens :(

That means either adjusting all books now, just in case, or have to drop books from tree and re-skill later. sigh.


From a personal perspective I cannot see the point in Navigation crash course in any general other than ls general and taverns. Unless you don't block then it might be worthwhile.

True, if you only do advs where the very first attack is a block (SLT for example?). Where you do advs that you can clear a number of camps with Fast Gens, and/or first block with MoD(s), then it makes perfect sense. (3T for example - I can clear with Fast Gens and MoD block, and then wait for first TVG to arrive to block C5 just before the suspicious boulder).

[sparkz]

...That said..... if BB ever raises L75 to Lxxx, I'd want FL on all main atk gens :(

if they do raise it to lets say 80, 75 -> 80 will take twice as much as 1-> 75, so I think people will be looking for better games rather than better ways of grinding exp here.

[t00tie]

For MG (and attack vets): Has anyone had any thoughts on the benefits of Master Planner vs. using a third book on Weekly Maintenance?

Besiegers with 2 books in Weekly Maintenance have AD hit 220, AD miss 120 (I think) and expected AD 220*.9+120*.1=210.
Besiegers with 3 books in Weekly Maintenance have AD hit 230, AD miss 130 (I think) and expected AD 230*.9+130*.1=220.

With Master Planner and 2/3 in Weekly Maintenance expected AD is 220*1+0*120=220 (guaranteed) but your other units in the attack will also be +10% accuracy. Did I just answer my own question and confirm that OPs setup is best here?

Note: All elite units have accuracy 90% so Master Planner guarantees max AD (the opposite in many ways to what Anslem does to enemies).

With 3 books in Weekly Maintenance AD can be higher for some attacks but can also be lower, Master Planner removes variance and pretty much guarantees the result of our attack (but not the enemies' attack).

[cat_flap]

I can see the value of Nav on 30m generals to get them there with the fasts, but using 3 Tomes to bring down fasts from 15m to 7.5m seem a bit wasteful.

[t00tie]

I can see the value of Nav on 30m generals to get them there with the fasts, but using 3 Tomes to bring down fasts from 15m to 7.5m seem a bit wasteful.

I agree but what would you replace it with? I believe the rationale is to enable even faster back-to-back adventures during events.
Nusala could use Sniper Training if you intend to sacrifice lb. Hostile Takeover is silly imho and pointless with lvl6 barracks and buffs (ms mercenaries might have been interesting). Can 2 of the books be put into the next level, I'd possibly like more on Fast Learner.

[LordofEverything]

I've been playing nearly 3 years and I'm still clueless about things like "splash damage" .... but anyway, my thoughts are .....

As you increase in levels, the adventures you do will change .... one year ago I was doing a lot of BK, now I do mostly Alis (Woody / 1st / 2nd / 3rd) with some VLT
And the gens you have and use will change .... and you'll get more gens in the future .... I now have 2 MG, 5 MMA, Vargus, 2 Dracs etc .... I use these for most attacks, with Tavern gens used for blocks

The adventures you do will vary .... the camps you attack in each adventure will vary .... the troops you use and fight against will vary ....
It would be very "fiddly" to use different books in each gen and remember which one to use on which camps / adventures ..... so I'm going to book all fast (attacking) gens the same .... and I'll carry on playing the same as I have done, using the wiki guides .... and eventually I expect some wiki guides will change (as they have in the past) or new versions will come out .... and one way or another, I will save troops / time etc

So for the fast attacking gens (MG, MMA, CoA) I'll be using:
Manuscripts: 3 Rapid Fire, 2 Juggernaut
Tome: 2 Sniper Training, 3 Overrun, 3 Unstoppable Charge
Codex: 3 Weekly Maintenance, 1 Bounty Hunter (for the star coins)
That leaves 4 more books I can add, and thinking these will be Tomes added as 1 Battle Frenzy, 3 Fast Learner

The star coins will be useful especially for buying RoA / Assasin and other buffs for quick kills, or for the weekly gems etc etc etc

I won't book the Tavern gens yet .... will be better used on the next explorers / geos / gens we get ..... I will only use books on Tavern gens when I've fully booked all geos / explorers / fast gens, and that's a long way off .....

[cat_flap]

I agree but what would you replace it with? I believe the rationale is to enable even faster back-to-back adventures during events.
Nusala could use Sniper Training if you intend to sacrifice lb. Hostile Takeover is silly imho and pointless with lvl6 barracks and buffs (ms mercenaries might have been interesting). Can 2 of the books be put into the next level, I'd possibly like more on Fast Learner.

Absolutely agree with yours on Hostile (especially the bit in brackets). Regarding the situation where you need to get 10 books total in Manu and Tome 1 I would prefer stuffing out the Manu level as its a lot cheaper. For my main attacking generals (MG's, 1or2 x MMA, Vargus I think I will be going for 3 Jog, 3 First Aid, 3 Overrun with the final book being a Manu, probably on Rapid fire.

[ChapterIX]

Master Planner 1/1 (for 100% hit chance on elite units)
Garrison Annex 3/3 (for more chances to use Mounted Marksman)
Fast Learner 3/3 (30% extra XP = Level quicker)
First Aid 3/3 (less time producing mounted swordsman)

I intend to max out all low tier jog (2/3)/jugs/rapid fire to make for cheaper and quicker 'research' towards 21/21 spec'd generals where possible.

https://preview.ibb.co/cnbA6Q/Combined.jpg (https://ibb.co/fsnHmQ)

[EasyTarget1]

Fast learner vs Battle frenzy, on Ali's most battles only last 1 round so fast learner, for ft and other adv's the battle frenzy, confident leader and weekly maintenance work better. So 1 guess 1 MG spec for ali the other ft killer.

[t00tie]

My mg has 3 codex on garrison annex. Do I follow evilj with 2 confident leader or djnelson with 2 weekly maint.? Or go for the compromise and put one on each?

[Amazony]

Depends on who's guides you gonna use :)

[Rhylian]

I am amazed how some people undervalue for example Juggernaut. "But it is only 60 damage". ehhh Bosscamps are usually the most expensive in troop losses.
So let's take Vargus: Juggernaut + Overrun + Garrison Annex + Battle frenzy + weekly maintenance + Lightning strike. You LITERALLY TEAR through those camps like there is no tomorrow .... usually because these are also multi combat rounds. That 60 dmg doubles because of lightning strike. Then next round that gets another 10%-30 AGAIN so round 1: 750 - 1250 + 60 X 2. Round 2 10-30% extra etc. Seriously specced like that Boss camps become a WHOLE lot easier.

[tasp]

Because JOG makes adventures faster
evilj ones:
http://i.imgur.com/ewxL3Qj.png

[sparkz]

Fast learner vs Battle frenzy, on Ali's most battles only last 1 round so fast learner, for ft and other adv's the battle frenzy, confident leader and weekly maintenance work better.

Do you have any actual examples ? Regular units dont have splash damage meaning that even 30% damage bonus coming from BF will mean no bonus in most cases.


I am amazed how some people undervalue for example Juggernaut. "But it is only 60 damage". ehhh Bosscamps are usually the most expensive in troop losses.
So let's take Vargus: Juggernaut + Overrun + Garrison Annex + Battle frenzy + weekly maintenance + Lightning strike. You LITERALLY TEAR through those camps like there is no tomorrow .... usually because these are also multi combat rounds. That 60 dmg doubles because of lightning strike. Then next round that gets another 10%-30 AGAIN so round 1: 750 - 1250 + 60 X 2. Round 2 10-30% extra etc. Seriously specced like that Boss camps become a WHOLE lot easier.

Definately not a rule of a thumb.

Things to consider :

- in some cases you have to lose units either way because otherwise you cant defeat the camp (difficulty does not scale linearly). If you clear problematic units boss might aswell be a piece of cake
- Overrun already takes care about a huge chunk of bosses HP and will most likely be one of the primary fillers in the skill tree
- Against high HP targets units without splash damage actually increase in their power (because none of their damage is lost)

So after all its not like bosses are an actual problem, and certainly a 60 damage increase, even if multiplied by 20, would not help much if it was an actual problem.

[Emou]

Hello,
Got a question about Fast Learner.
The XP gained from ABYW is 139.962
So, with +30% it should be 181.950
But its not. Here it is with blocks:
http://i.imgur.com/WzAyJp6.jpg

So, i decide to play without blocks and kill almost all camps (6 camps less), here is the result:
http://i.imgur.com/17roxOc.jpg

The question is - is it bug? or it is intended to kill everything without blocks to receive the full +30% from the adventure?

Regards

[Koraku]

you only get bonus xp for the camps you KILL, blocked camps that just dissapear because you killed a leader dont earn bonus xp (only regular xp.. for that logic.. ask BB)

[Flubbervius]

I believe that fast learner only applies to the camps that you actually kill, so the blocked camps will not give the extra XP.

[EasyTarget1]

Good to know, not be using this skills that often then.

[tasp]

I believe that fast learner only applies to the camps that you actually kill, so the blocked camps will not give the extra XP.

+1
this is why I didn't picked this skill .. :)

[djnelson99]

Starting to appreciate the First Aid skill...
Whilst my initial thoughts are that it's not so important as troop production is fast enough with Skunks, Recruit Guides and L6 barracks, it is effectively the same end result as having a skill that makes combat troops have less losses. So lose less troops with a good combat skill, or have them refunded after the battle has the same result... less losses (guaranteed!) and only manuscripts too.

[Fanfas]

Good to know, not be using this skills that often then.

It is still one of the best skills to have on your attack generals, specially on big exp adventures like FT and Arabian Nights. And specially when you need millions to level...

[EasyTarget1]

It is still one of the best skills to have on your attack generals, specially on big exp adventures like FT and Arabian Nights. And specially when you need millions to level...

Agreed.

[cat_flap]

On the same issue, does the "rule" that you only get credit for the leader XP rather than for all villages that die with it, extend to other skills such as Hostile Take Over. Do you only get the mercenary R based on the XP from the leader village or also from the other villages that die with the leader?

[EasyTarget1]

Hostile Takeover
When this army wins a battle, gain 1 Recruit mercenary * for every 600/300/200 XP worth of enemies defeated.

hmmmm interesting. Not 100% sure as they are enemies defeated but they weren't in the battle. Have to test this if you wanna use that skill.

My thought is that recruits train fast so you are prolly better using the books on other skills.

[cat_flap]

Hostile Takeover
When this army wins a battle, gain 1 Recruit mercenary * for every 600/300/200 XP worth of enemies defeated.

hmmmm interesting. Not 100% sure as they are enemies defeated but they weren't in the battle. Have to test this if you wanna use that skill.

My thought is that recruits train fast so you are prolly better using the books on other skills.

Yeah, that had been my thought as well but another guild member who has it skilled mentioned that a lot of R had been put into the star. Just thought I would check out the methodology for it as you never know where something may be hidden :).

It appears that the Hostile Takeover is somewhat better than First Aid at telling you the number of troops recovered or gained.

[t00tie]

I'd like to point out some things I don't necessarily agree with especially for MG:

You put 2 books on
Unstoppable Charge
Increases the maximum attack damage of your swift units by 1/2/3 and their attacks have a 33/66/100% chance of dealing splash damage.

This effects cavalry, knights and mounted marksmen.

Cav gain 10/20/30% and splash damage which is significant but:
- nobody over lvl 58 really cares about cavalry
- cav have such a weak hit they are already kind of splash damage anyway, you need 12-24 to kill one elite soldier

Knights gain about 2-3-5% and splash damage. The AD gain is very small, splash might make a difference against the weakest ali enemies but:
- I use way fewer knights after the CoA gens arrived, I mostly use them on Anslem
- MM on Vargus are way better, I don't think I'll ever use Kn on vargus

Mounted Marksmen gain 1-2-3% AD, they already deal splash damage
- Not nearly enough to be worth the books IMNSHO

I will definitely choose 3/3 on First Aid instead of one of the books you put on Unstoppable Charge. The other one I'd prefer to have on either navigation (for even faster back-to-back adventures during events) or Fast Learner for the xp (but I understand why OP didn't get this).

[t00tie]

The other interesting thing I'd like to point out is the difference on codex tier one between evilj and OP at least for main attack gens.

Only 2/3 on garrison annex is the wrong choice, the effect for cannoneers and besiegers of choosing garrison annex or weekly maintenance is the same. For other units only garrison annex helps (more MM is very nice).

Evilj is the king of tight blocks so he chose 2/3 on confident leader. I suspect not having this might break some new blocks he makes in the future but I can live with that,I prefer blocks where only the leader camp rainbows.

Personally I think I'll go 3/3 on garrison annex and one each on the other two. Cleave is of course nonsense.

[djnelson99]

Thanx t00tie, some valid observations. The skills you (and I) choose are what we feel are best for our own situations, gameplay and advs we do, so there is no real right or wrong, but for me, the unstoppable charge was just as valid as another First Aid for me, and having 8m15s MG travel time when all my other gens are on 10m30s seemed a waste for my setups.

True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it :D

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1. I have plenty of setups where this is the case for SLT, and I'll endeavour to list my setups here at some point very soon, so you can compare with Evil's when he posts, and who knows, his may be better :D

One of the main setups I disagree with Evil over was the use of 1-up for MMAs. he went with Master Planner instead, but I ask: When does your MMA actually get used for a main full attack to gain the benefit of this vs suicide runs. Mostly suicide runs, so 1-up means more suicide runs, and whilst the argument was he couldn't find many uses for MMAs, you'll see in my SLT setups that for the four I currently have upgraded to 1-up, I make a good use of them.

As an idea, before I post setups, my typical loss on SLT is down to 125M, 842B, and approx 1445R, which I think isn't too shabby for an adv I now routinely complete in well under 1h.

Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.

[Lord-Nazgul]

Thanx t00tie, some valid observations. The skills you (and I) choose are what we feel are best for our own situations, gameplay and advs we do, so there is no real right or wrong, but for me, the unstoppable charge was just as valid as another First Aid for me, and having 8m15s MG travel time when all my other gens are on 10m30s seemed a waste for my setups.

True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it :D

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1. I have plenty of setups where this is the case for SLT, and I'll endeavour to list my setups here at some point very soon, so you can compare with Evil's when he posts, and who knows, his may be better :D

One of the main setups I disagree with Evil over was the use of 1-up for MMAs. he went with Master Planner instead, but I ask: When does your MMA actually get used for a main full attack to gain the benefit of this vs suicide runs. Mostly suicide runs, so 1-up means more suicide runs, and whilst the argument was he couldn't find many uses for MMAs, you'll see in my SLT setups that for the four I currently have upgraded to 1-up, I make a good use of them.

As an idea, before I post setups, my typical loss on SLT is down to 125M, 842B, and approx 1445R, which I think isn't too shabby for an adv I now routinely complete in well under 1h.

Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.


Good point and agree with u about MMA and 1-up skill,most of my mmas will be like that for sac.Thinking to leave only one for attack MMA for Easter events and that's it.

[SmurfAsH]

I'd like to point out some things I don't necessarily agree with especially for MG:

You put 2 books on
Unstoppable Charge
Increases the maximum attack damage of your swift units by 1/2/3 and their attacks have a 33/66/100% chance of dealing splash damage.

This effects cavalry, knights and mounted marksmen.

Cav gain 10/20/30% and splash damage which is significant but:
- nobody over lvl 58 really cares about cavalry
- cav have such a weak hit they are already kind of splash damage anyway, you need 12-24 to kill one elite soldier

Knights gain about 2-3-5% and splash damage. The AD gain is very small, splash might make a difference against the weakest ali enemies but:
- I use way fewer knights after the CoA gens arrived, I mostly use them on Anslem
- MM on Vargus are way better, I don't think I'll ever use Kn on vargus

Mounted Marksmen gain 1-2-3% AD, they already deal splash damage
- Not nearly enough to be worth the books IMNSHO
..
What if those few extra AD is enough to take down a boss without losses?
tsotesting.com/threads/22575 - discussion about last camp in woodcutter (http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/22575-FINAL-skill-tree-setup-what-do-you-think-about-it?p=46296&viewfull=1#post46296)

[SmurfAsH]

..
True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it :D

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1.
..
..and there those 5 extra would be neat to have. :cool:

[SmurfAsH]

..
Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.
I think Erevan made some good points in thesettlersonline.net/threads/24350 - Getting the most out of Anslem (http://forum.thesettlersonline.net/threads/24350-Getting-the-most-out-of-Anselm) ..

..
I’ve seen comments dismissing this skill for all but sacrifice generals. Actually, it makes more sense to put Confident Leader on Anslem, whose attacks can easily last 10 rounds, than on a general that dies after one round. With other skills like Battle Frenzy significantly reducing the time it takes Anslem to kill a camp, I expect Confident Leader would present opportunities for even more creative blocking. But I couldn’t test the hypothesis in the scope of this demonstration.

In this test case we could apply 2 codexes to Confident Leader and shorten Anslem’s 6-round victory to the same duration as 4.2 rounds. Considering we started with 17-19 rounds, that’s pretty awesome. How much opportunity do you want for better blocks? This is your call. If any general will benefit from Confident Leader, it’s Anslem.
..

[djnelson99]

Agreed SmurfAsH, and this is one of those discussions where BB have so got it right... The diversity of skills and the situations they can be good for is so diverse and the opportunities aplenty that there is no true right or wrong, but trying to strike a personal balance for which books to use. If only we could skill all skills, but we can't hehe, so we have to choose what would be best for us, and it is a hard choice sometimes, but all you got to do is make an informed choice, skill it, and live with it :) Loving these books

[djnelson99]

My setups (currently!) for SLT with fully skilled MGs, CoA, 1x Atk Vet, 4 MMAs, and 3 sacrifice BHGs with 3x Rapid Fire and 3x First Aid as a minimum:

I have omitted block camps - this list is just for comparison of attack camps with other guides, using Evil's camp numbering for ease of comparison :

All MMA attacks are skilled MMAs with 1-up unless stated otherwise).

Start:
L1 - 92R, 1E, 102K(Va)

Right side:
C17 - 115B(BHG) || 134R, 1E, 127C, 18K(MG)
C18 - 145R, 1E, 19K(An)
L7 - 1R(MA) || 67R, 1E, 153C, 39K(Atk Vet)

C20 - 131R, 1E, 103K(MA) - the only time I use a MMA for an attack on this adv, but 1-Up still here as he gets to die twice later ;o)
C21 - 1R(MA) || 96R, 1E, 98K(Va)
L8 - 1R(MA) || 155R, 1E, 124K(MG)
C24 - 1R(MA) || 1R(LD) || 250C(V)
L9 - 1R(MA) || 105R, 1E, 54C, 120K(MG)

Centre:
C10 - 124R, 1E, 80C, 75K(MG)
L5 - 1R(Nu) || 142M, 1E, 137K(MG)
C13 - 175R(MA) || 82R, 45C, 1E, 26XB, 26K(Nu)
C14 - 80B(BHG) || 141R, 88C, 1E, 50K(MG)
C15 - a block camp, and here is where I prep camp for my block setups with 2x unskilled 1R(MA)... just how I do it :P
L6 - 180B(Nu) || 135B(MA) || 16R, 1E, 178K(Va)

Left Side:
L2 - 155B(BHG) || 69R, 23B, 1E, 166XB, 1K(Atk Vet)
L3 - 200B(BHG) || 60R, 40B, 1E, 158XB, 1K(Atk Vet)
L4 - 61R(An) || 35R, 1E, 244K(MG)

Typical loss each time has been 125M, 842B, ~1445R.

you will see there are 8 MMA 1R attacks due to 4x 1-up. I am sure there are more opportunities for savings by using 1R MMA attacks to weaken camps if you get more skilled MMAs allowing for more sacrifices.

Note the use of Cav for MG and Atk Vet - this is where Unstoppable Charge has assisted?

I am not saying these are the best setups, but these are what I have simmed so far with my skill sets from Page 1. Happy killing!

A final note - I tend to run advs for speed - I do not use necessarily the best gen for each attack, so where a MG may give a slight saving over Vet, it may be the vet is concurrently attacking whilst MGs are in use elsewhere, etc. So you may find better setups if you are prepared to do advs slower and wait for right gen each time!

[SmurfAsH]

Agreed SmurfAsH, and this is one of those discussions where BB have so got it right... The diversity of skills and the situations they can be good for is so diverse and the opportunities aplenty that there is no true right or wrong, but trying to strike a personal balance for which books to use. If only we could skill all skills, but we can't hehe, so we have to choose what would be best for us, and it is a hard choice sometimes, but all you got to do is make an informed choice, skill it, and live with it :) Loving these books
Though I think they could have done better when it comes to diversity.. Garrison Annex on 4th row is choking it - I would rather have it on the 3rd row - and some skills are not worth investing in.
But as..


..
There are some rough ideas on possible ways to increase the value for some skills.
.. (http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/22575-FINAL-skill-tree-setup-what-do-you-think-about-it?p=46240&viewfull=1#post46240)
..I wouldn't be surprised if they would do some more changes and gave us a "free-reskill-week" upon that.

I guess guidemakers wouldn't be that happy about it, but if the changes atleast would not affect the combat mechanism then any useful combat simulator would still be useful.
I mean, adding some after combat functions to some skills (eg a first aid or hostile takeover function to Weekly maintenance and Cleave) and switching skilltree location between Garrison Annex and Battle Frenzy are some things I would really like to see.

[Dorotheus]

Though I think they could have done better when it comes to diversity.. Garrison Annex on 4th row is choking it - I would rather have it on the 3rd row - and some skills are not worth investing in.
But as..

..I wouldn't be surprised if they would do some more changes and gave us a "free-reskill-week" upon that.

I guess guidemakers wouldn't be that happy about it, but if the changes atleast would not affect the combat mechanism then any useful combat simulator would still be useful.
I mean, adding some after combat functions to some skills (eg a first aid or hostile takeover function to Weekly maintenance and Cleave) and switching skilltree location between Garrison Annex and Battle Frenzy are some things I would really like to see.

Seeing as they have mentioned a jog buff I would not be surprised if we also got other skill based buffs. This would negate the need for changes thus negating the need for matching free re-skills.

[SmurfAsH]

Seeing as they have mentioned a jog buff I would not be surprised if we also got other skill based buffs. This would negate the need for changes thus negating the need for matching free re-skills.
And that's wrong thinking.
The need for matching free re-skills is because of the increased value of some skills and that leads to revaluation of previous choices.

[Dorotheus]

And that's wrong thinking.
The need for matching free re-skills is because of the increased value of some skills and that leads to revaluation of previous choices.

Did we get a free re-skill when the second science tree was introduced ?
Did we get a free re-skill when they changed the Explorer skills ?
Did we get a free re-skill when this third science tree was introduced ?
Do you see the pattern emerging here, this is why I believe the buff route negates a free re-skill, it's based upon BB's history. Your argument is based on wishful thinking.

[Mannerheim]

After BB_Alex reply at test and options for it was pretty clear they do not want to do one for free. There have been a lot valid reasons for a reset in the past but it never happened after several requests.

[djnelson99]

For anyone interested, I have simmed the setups for the Evil Queen adventure chain with the skills used at the start of this thread, and they can be found here:

http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/34938-Evil-Queen-chain-with-skilled-gens