MG: 2maintanace+3garrison vs 3maintenance+2garrison.

[The_Sarmatian]

So, I'm about to invest codexes into MG. However I have big issue. All guides for skills suggest putting 3 maintenance+2 garrison.

My problem is that you never use more then max 200 artillery (most often like only 100 besiegers are used on MG) and only on few of the camps. Though smaller camps probably are taken out more efficiently by ANS or VAR. So 2 maintenance + 3 garrison are better on champions rather then on MG? Still, there are adventures nord-like, which go rather with xbows. I fail to see any xbows or mounted marksmen skills in general science. Having 2 MG+champs usually speeds doing the adventures. For sure there are few camps, where +10 dmg to artillery will give huge boost, but in majority? Plus I never do evilj guides. I do only wiki ones.

What should I pick for best long run, for best overall performance? Should I set for 3 maintenance+ 2 garrison on my MG or 2 maintenance +3 garrison?

[Dorotheus]

Way I see it, it's not just those 2 skills which count, there is also Confident Leader which reduces round times thus making blocks safer if you block. That said with 2 MG I think the prudent option is to have one with 3 in Maintenance and the other with 3 in Garrison thus giving you maximum flexibility even if it does mean sometimes you will be attacking a chain of camps with one while the other is idle.

[EasyTarget1]

With the extra damage the fighting rounds drop bigtime, don't really need the Confident Leader. Check out whats best for you on fast sim (http://settlersonlinemaps.com/fastsim.php?LangCode=2). Suggest VLT sector 1 leader as that takes some rounds to kill. Then test that skill set on your favourite adventure.

The idea that new guides will come along with blocks that need certain skill sets is a little hard to believe. Yes you can create your own and find that you could block x too but looking at the maps there aren't gonna be many of these. More damage, lose less troops and adv more is the way I wanna play.

[TheVictorious]

With the extra damage the fighting rounds drop bigtime, don't really need the Confident Leader. Check out whats best for you on fast sim (http://settlersonlinemaps.com/fastsim.php?LangCode=2). Suggest VLT sector 1 leader as that takes some rounds to kill. Then test that skill set on your favourite adventure.

The idea that new guides will come along with blocks that need certain skill sets is a little hard to believe. Yes you can create your own and find that you could block x too but looking at the maps there aren't gonna be many of these. More damage, lose lesstroops and adv more is the way I wanna play.

in most of alies, I'm using Swift units not heavy (btw AM is swift, heavy o just normal?), because of vargus even less use for heavy units, so it become almost not a big deal, also reduce block time if you do block, will make more blocks become possible and less risk to fail on other tight blocks, if you looking for fewer losses, think out of the box here (the box here is the general on certain attack).

this is my setup, not applied but what I'm thinking about:

http://i.imgur.com/sycUwbw.png

[Areop-Enap]

I'm using Swift units not heavy (btw AM is swift, heavy o just normal?)

Swift units = First strikers (Cavalry, Knights, Mounted Marksmen)
Heavy units = Last strikers (Cannoneers, Besiegers)

There are no skill that affect AM beside the top skill Master Planner.

[numa]

Well, I wouldn't go with Confident Leader myself, because of the same reasons people already mentioned (the number of rounds already reduces with the extra damage). I agree with the 3 maintenance+2 garrison setup because, from what I tried simulating, these few more troops don't make that much of a difference, but it depends on the camps that you do your simulations on. I'd like to hear from other people who tried simulating...
The_Sarmatian, what other skills did you put on your MG? I think that could also be an important factor.

[EasyTarget1]

AM are normal troops. With Ali's most battles are over in the first round if using swift, MM units. If you are going to go for Garrison Annex for more swift units think about adding 1 lvl to unstoppable charge.

I always block so thought that Confident Leader was a must but I thought out of the box and saw most tight blocks were reduced anyway making them way easier. So save those codex slots for other maybe cheaper books.

[TheVictorious]

Well, I wouldn't go with Confident Leader myself, because of the same reasons people already mentioned (the number of rounds already reduces with the extra damage). I agree with the 3 maintenance+2 garrison setup because, from what I tried simulating, these few more troops don't make that much of a difference, but it depends on the camps that you do your simulations on. I'd like to hear from other people who tried simulating...
The_Sarmatian, what other skills did you put on your MG? I think that could also be an important factor.

Confident Leader 100% reduce rounds, whatever the units you are using, maintenance is just reducing rounds if you using heavy units, also, sometimes it is not made really a difference, maybe 1 round less save 20 seconds but with leader skill, 30% of time whatever could be better even more than 20 seconds.

[TheVictorious]

AM are normal troops. With Ali's most battles are over in the first round if using swift, MM units. If you are going to go for Garrison Annex for more swift units think about adding 1 lvl to unstoppable charge.

I always block so thought that Confident Leader was a must but I thought out of the box and saw most tight blocks were reduced anyway making them way easier. So save those codex slots for other maybe cheaper books.

skills mentioned here using codex + you almost use these skills on main attack generals anyway not all generals, also, I know the troops' types, I just ask to show that there is almost no use as a "heavy" units only cover 1 elite type, 1 normal type.

Sharing thoughts helpful for all anyway, so as I think I really made long discussion with these skills with guild mates and in global channel.
Anyway, I, saw many builds, I got my own (but based on Evil_J's setup as well).

About unstoppable charge, 1 dmg is not really a big deal especially in Arabian adventures, also, splash dmg is already low chance for MG and useless for already splashed CoA generals, in case it save 1 or 2 units, I could save more by more opened blocks.

[The_Sarmatian]

I am considering following skills on my MG. lv3 first aid, lv3 jog, lv3 juggernaut, lv3 overrun, lv3 battle frenzy...but on codex levels besides lv1 master planner there are issues what to pick as priority nr1.

Unstoppable charge utterly useless. MM (=100dmg) have splash ability already. Also MG is not VAR.

So I should worry not only about garrison, maintenance, but also confident leader?

On 1st thief last block (wiki guide mg+ans+var+nus+besiegers) is tricky and you can't really shorten attack in rounds. It is like 5 secs touch and go lag-situation. Confident leader would make there some improvement like -2/-4/-6 secs maybe, but is it worth it. I didn't fail that block yet, though I didn't enormous amounts of ali thieves yet either.

[Bluesavanah]

Hard to give advice on one general in isolation, without too much play style information but based on your last post I'd say drop 2 points from juggernaut, how many times does your MG fight more than a round or two. My own play style dictates maintenance is a waste also based on fact I'm running YWC, VLT, SLT and evil Queens the most, I'm finding I'm using MM over Besiegers for the majority of attacks on elite adventures and losing a few extra recruits on ft adventures isn't exactly a crisis.

Camps that take multiple attacks probably benefit more from confident leader, put it on enough generals you can fit another one into the attack if your blocking.

Maybe consider picking up the extra xp skill or mercenary recruit skill or both. I went with the xp skill it's enough xp that it worthwhile to me. the accuracy skill means all my elites hit for atleast full minimum damage so it seems best unless you need sc.

Lastly I'd never follow one set of guides usually I use a mishmash of all available then do my own, you can sometimes even find novelty posts like the guy who does the last camp on a YWC without losing elites.

[EasyTarget1]

Done some testing using wiki guide numbers for 1st t, 2nd t, 3rd t and ToW. It is surprising how little difference using any of the codex skills on the MG does. Yes Unstoppable charge is useless, sure I saw it save MS in a few sims but not on any tested today. So now I'm thinking maybe 1 lvl in Garrison Annex for the extra MM is all thats needed. Most of the time the MG is used fighting the bosses and the amount of rounds cannot be changed with a few extra this and that so why bother.

More XP, more mercenaries and rapid fire so it can be used as part of a multi wave kill.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/5a16d9f5ea934b61bf5dcfd6b0eb780d.png

[sparkz]

Unstoppable charge utterly useless. MM (=100dmg) have splash ability already. Also MG is not VAR.

MM have splash, knights dont.

3/3 in charge leaves you with knights being pseudo-MM type of units that have enough HP to protect your besiegers from Attacks Weakest type of units, as well as splash alone giving you a huge damage increase against those units (since they usually had somewhere around 30-50HP, splash alone is like 30+% damage increase on average).

Situational, but not to be underestimated.

Also, mercenary skill giving recruits when you already transition to arabian knights adventures makes as much sense to me as hoarding fish when you can make steaks. And will make even less sense in future when we can expect the number of epic ads will even increase.

[EasyTarget1]

Compromise

https://pegasustso.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/4d33f12852d845be8130be00dceb98b3.png

Seems good in both ali and ft.

[TheVictorious]

once you enter elite are, why you care about normal troops, they always cheap to train and fast, what I mean here, some skills make sense for lower level, but the higher level does not make sense at all.

if you entered the elite troops' area that you use most of the times, then normal troops become minor.

Why I do care about saving some Recruits! if I can save more MS when I do a real specialist, the middle solution is a big waste for me.

[EasyTarget1]

Are you talking with me?

If so I am talking about elites mainly, normal troops are a bonus but saving MS is the highest priority.

[Bluesavanah]

Also, mercenary skill giving recruits when you already transition to arabian knights adventures makes as much sense to me as hoarding fish when you can make steaks. And will make even less sense in future when we can expect the number of epic ads will even increase.

Personally still sacrificing recruits in Ali adventures so how does the skill make no sense and do you leave your normal barracks empty ? that also makes no sense.

[sparkz]

Personally still sacrificing recruits in Ali adventures so how does the skill make no sense and do you leave your normal barracks empty ? that also makes no sense.

If you are capable of making a couple thousands of recruits every day in regular barracks, then the miniscule effect you get from the skill makes no sense to me, considering the limitation on the books you can spend.

[The_Sarmatian]

I agree. There is some sense moving 2 skill-books from juggernaut to fast learner. It gets more xp. It can be even huge this way. On other hand lv3 juggernaut is like having almost +1 MM in every fight.

My personal situation on bronze sword production is: 3 ecm -> 8 c-smelters -> 8 bronze sword smiths. All of my barracks are also lv6. Hostile takeover skill gives only recruits so... This is not a skill for my MG.

[The_Sarmatian]

OK.
I gave it some consideration and I went finally for evilj skills on my MG, though I will never do evilj guides. EVER. I did it for the same reason I picked lv3 jog. Not to have lesser losses, more xp, but to faster get it over with. Plus none was making overwhelming arguments about putting skillbooks into maintenance... It doesn't seem to be much useful skill.

[EasyTarget1]

link the setup pls

[TheVictorious]

link the setup pls

http://i.imgur.com/ewxL3Qj.png
(http://i.imgur.com/ewxL3Qj.png)
Personally, I prefer lvl 1 navigation and Lvl 2 fast learner.
Also for nusala lvl 3 just a flesh wounds, instead of Juggernaut

[The_Sarmatian]

I am so so so not using evilj setup for nus or mma. I want that lv3 recovery so badly. :) Also 1-up seems nice to have, but... with lv3 recovery maybe planner better on nus like it is on evilj's mma.

[TheVictorious]

I am so so so not using evilj setup for nus or mma. I want that lv3 recovery so badly. :) Also 1-up seems nice to have, but... with lv3 recovery maybe planner better on nus like it is on evilj's mma.

Yes, same here, I think getting 45% less recovery time for Nusala is helpful, but for 1-up, it is really helpful too.

[EasyTarget1]

Nus + planner is not that useful. On ali you rarely use Nus with a full load of bows anyway and on normal adv's saves a few r..... Using the skills in recovery and 1 up is the way to go I think, use Nus a 3rd time......could prolly make a few savings there.

Not really a fan of nav in fast gens either. For a ls gen maybe but you usually have to wait for taverns anyway. Even if you have camps to kill before tavs arrive you can get them done.

[Ammok]

I use 3 codex on annex for major and two on weekly. Extra troops come in handy if using crossbowmen or armoured marksmen etc
If using cannons or besiegers the two codex on weekly still useful, as is the extra 5.

I think skilling to suit your style is most important thing, doubt if there is a genuine "best" load out with only 21 spots available.

[TheVictorious]

Nus + planner is not that useful. On ali you rarely use Nus with a full load of bows anyway and on normal adv's saves a few r..... Using the skills in recovery and 1 up is the way to go I think, use Nus a 3rd time......could prolly make a few savings there.

Not really a fan of nav in fast gens either. For a ls gen maybe but you usually have to wait for taverns anyway. Even if you have camps to kill before tavs arrive you can get them done.

Exactly !

[The_Sarmatian]

Nus + planner is not that useful. On ali you rarely use Nus with a full load of bows anyway and on normal adv's saves a few r..... Using the skills in recovery and 1 up is the way to go I think, use Nus a 3rd time......could prolly make a few savings there.

Not really a fan of nav in fast gens either. For a ls gen maybe but you usually have to wait for taverns anyway. Even if you have camps to kill before tavs arrive you can get them done.

Master of Defense. Woodcutter's first two blocks can be done on MD.
NUS+1mm with master planer = 1600dmg

Though my guild mate says that simulator using skills shows him NUS with lv3 frenzy, as a super beast. Even on ali better from ANS and VAR. I am still not even considering lv3 frenzy on NUS. Maybe we need guides first, right?

[TheVictorious]

Master of Defense. Woodcutter's first two blocks can be done on MD.
NUS+1mm with master planer = 1600dmg

Though my guild mate says that simulator using skills shows him NUS with lv3 frenzy, as a super beast. Even on ali better from ANS and VAR. I am still not even considering lv3 frenzy on NUS. Maybe we need guides first, right?

How 1600 dmg? her max dmg is 1500 ! if she main attack, this could be helpful, but if she mostly for suicide attacks, you can do nothing with it, 90% accurancy is good enough.

Yes Battle Frenzy is powerful, but not really sure if she got the same skills as another Major and CoA generals, does this make her better or not?

[Dorotheus]

How 1600 dmg? her max dmg is 1500 ! if she main attack, this could be helpful, but if she mostly for suicide attacks, you can do nothing with it, 90% accurancy is good enough.

Yes Battle Frenzy is powerful, but not really sure if she got the same skills as another Major and CoA generals, does this make her better or not?

That's 1500 from Nus+100 from the MM