View Full Version : The ore mining limitations
Dear Game Developers, Moderators, Settlers and Mining-Enthusiasts,
I really like this game, and wish it a long life and constant growth, therefore I am here in a hope to hear BlueBytes thoughts and fellow settlers support.
The Problem
This game is all about maintaining the economy, production and expansion and that is great and what we love.
As our island expands, we constantly build and upgrade buildings that produce products or other resources, so we can fairly generalise that there are 2 types of resources in the production lines (we can argue regarding the names):
1. Active/Core Resources - are used to produce more resources (i.e wood, ore)
2. Passive/Final Resources - are used on upgrades, buffs & troops, but are not actively taking part in other production lines (i.e. weapons, planks, tools )
It feels unfair if the game limits us on obtaining the Active/Core Resources.
The example: If you need increase bows or coal production, you also increase the wood production and freely can do so by building more woodcutters and foresters (only limit are the licenses, but only after all possible upgrades are done.) This is a good model (in my opinion).
However, the ores are a completely different story, as we have limited number of spots on our island for the deposits.
And the production line where ores are taking main part we are quickly becoming their slaves that we need to rediscover the deposits every 12-14 hours.
The example: If you need increase weapons (swords) production, you need more ingots, and to have more ingots you need more ore, so you need to start upgrading the mines (only makes it faster to deplete) and/or refilling them. This is a bad model. (in my opinion)
Yes, we DO have the following options:
1. Refills
2. Colonies
3. Geologist Skills
but, to get refills you need to do addies, which are tied to your troops production (which also drain ores). To get Colonies you need to do another weapons & expedition troops production (which also drain ores) and finally to upgrade Geologist Skills you (surprise, surprise) need ores to build manuscript, tome, codex.
This begs for a solution to escape this endless loop of spending ore to get more ore.
The Solution
I would suggest to include another upgrade to the deposit/mines that would use food (i.e wheat, water) to "drill mines deeper" which would refill the deposit by +X amount.
Which would have the following limitations:
1. You cam drill deeper only 6 times, each drill also more expensive.
2. By drilling deeper you lose maximum possible mine upgrade. (of course until deposit rediscovered).
3. You can't drill deeper for Industrial or Special mines, so they only accept refills.
So how that helps?
Lets see in the following example:
we have 6 newly discovered iron mines, we upgrade them to lvl2 and buff (we have enough output to keep other production alive) but they would deplete in 14h. So you spend "food" to "drill deeper" and increase deposits by +300 ore, you gained more hours before it depletes and wont need to lose sleep over it, the maximum upgrade of mine drops to 6 and so on until eventually you can't neither upgrade or drill deeper and deposit depletes.
This should not break the balance of the game and will not collapse refills marketing as everyone would ever use them on industrial mines anyway.
Thank you for reading this far.
Thejollyone
19.10.18, 14:06
I've been playing over 6 years and do not have an issue with mines or any other resource available on our islands. I trade or adventure for refills. With the exception of copper - i got all 3 endless mines as I knew from the start I would be playing a long time.
I know also there are many other players who have played this game for free without too much of a problem on the mines..
For these reasons, Im sorry but its a -1 :(
Thejollyone, thank you for your opinion.
I perfectly can understand that there is a segment of players, that are content with the way things are, especially veteran players.
But if things won't make any difference for you, why not to think a bit about new players (i.e lvl 30 - 50)?
It's not like I am proposing to have things for "free", just an alternative to refills that is affordable to lower levels.
Trading for refills works only if you have gold, to have gold you need:
1. Gold Mines (expensive to even build on low levels)
2. Gold Tower (not available until lvl 45)
3. Trading (low lvls have barely anything to offer that nets more than 50g).
Archipelago is closed until lvl 50 that would have more deposits.
I've got 14 lvl2 ironmines running on main islands. Or thereabouts. I was and am making a useful net positive in ore I trade for other stuff I don't make enough of. Even as a lvl69 player.
The game is "balanced" around the idea that you cannot produce everything of everything yourself and must trade to some degree. Or accept slightly lower economic output. Which is good because none would trade otherwise and only in exorbiantly priced rare items.
If you suddenly need more ingots you trade for them for something else (in fact, why not trade for swords directly?). If you are low level you trade lots of low value resources (that's the way life is), or alternatively, some of they key items everyone get equal amounts of that you don't really need.
The new Iron experts are very nice in that they create double sized deposits. But I managed equally well before them as a lower level player. Making and selling iron ore was a great cash business for me at sub-50. Fact is if you only think you can trade by using coins you are really missing a trick. Usually not trading in coins give you much better deals. It's arguably irrational that "coins" are considered currency (technically a building material!), but can't fight human nature.
What you propose here is actively detrimental to people engaging with the other players in an economy. Therefore -1 from me.
In fact since some of the new content was added, me and others have had to more actively engage in the trading economcis because we specifically do not have the behemoth 1%:er economies some people playing for 5+ years do. To the general benefit of the game IMO becasue it creates more market for low level goods too.
A lot of what you describe is also deliberately done for various gamerelated reasons.
Hi SnowBlizz, thank you for your opinion.
I understand what you are saying about large role in being an active trader.
However, I believe that there could be some alternative to the players who want to play at slower pace and no need to rediscover iron ore so frequently to keep production at +1 rate and that is the main point of my suggestion.
The behemoths shouldn't gain much benefits from the suggestions I made as upgrades as I proposed above not only shouldn't work on special and industrial ores, plus I proposed they "break" the max. upgrade mine lvls. So by paying "food" to prolong mine you gain hours until they deplete/need to rediscover.
Here is an example of table, lets imagine by "drilling" you gain +50 ore (I lowered +X ore than I made in first post example to make it more balanced).
Currently:
lvl1 Iron mine has 500 ore x1 rate, and roughly ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 54 hours.
lvl2 Iron mine has 500 ore x2 rate, and roughly ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 27 hours.
lvl3 Iron mine has 500 ore x3 rate, and roughly ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 18 hours.
lvl4 Iron mine has 500 ore x3 rate, and roughly ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 13,5 hours.
Any further upgrades make no sense in the game, but people would go for industrial or special mines.
The Suggested Idea: drilling
lvl1 Iron mine (Deep Drilled 1lvl) now 550 ore x1 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 59,4 hours. ( +5,4 hours compared to current)
lvl1 Iron mine (Deep Drilled 2lvl) now 600 ore x1 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 64,8 hours. ( +10,8 hours compared to current)
lvl1 Iron mine (Deep Drilled 3lvl) now 650 ore x1 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 70,2 hours. ( +16,2 hours compared to current)
lvl1 Iron mine (Deep Drilled 4lvl) now 700 ore x1 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 75,6 hours. ( +21,6 hours compared to current)
lvl1 Iron mine (Deep Drilled 5lvl) now 750 ore x1 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 81 hours. ( + 27 hours compared to current)
Ideal for people who are OK to spend some "food" in exchange to delay the time until rediscovering.
Now example of combo mine lvls + drilled upgrades:
2lvl Iron mine (Drilled 1lvl) 550 ore x2 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 29,7 hours. (+2.7h)
2lvl Iron mine (Drilled 2lvl) 600 ore x2 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 32,4 hours. (+5.4h)
2lvl Iron mine (Drilled 3lvl) 650 ore x2 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 35,1 hours. (+8.1h)
3lvl Iron mine (Drilled 1lvl) 550 ore x3 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 19,8 hours. (+1.8h)
3lvl Iron mine (Drilled 2lvl) 600 ore x3 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 21,6 hours. (+3.6h)
3lvl Iron mine (Drilled 3lvl) 650 ore x3 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 23,4 hours. (+5.4h)
4lvl Iron mine (Drilled 1lvl) 500 ore x4 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 14,8 hours. (+1.3h)
4lvl Iron mine (Drilled 2lvl) 550 ore x4 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 16,2 hours. (+2.7h)
4lvl Iron mine (Drilled 3lvl) 650 ore x4 rate. ~6:30 production time so it fully depletes in 17,5 hours. (+4h)
This is the maximum you can achieve in combo - lvl4 mine, if you try to drill further, you will gain +50 ore, but mine will drop from lvl4 to lvl3 and so on.
Like many things in game a solution to the problem has already been implemented but you have to wait until the right event comes around to be able to take advantage of it your self.
As you have not given any details such as player level or what exactly your using your ore on it's difficult to give you any advise which may help you with your situation until such time as the right event rolls around.
Personally, I would love to have a bigger or better supply of iron ore, also titanium and saltpetre while we're at it. But having these limitations in place stops over production of final resources also players need to make choices on how to best run their economy. We would end up with too many final resources in TO and no one buying or selling ores or deposits. Also there would be less need to run adventures etc. So its a -1 from me also.
Having said that +1 for endless irons mines :D (Just a few anyway)
Thank you for your opinions, so far the overwhelming minuses :)
I wonder if would hear any thoughts from BB. I also fixed my time calculations.
Dorotheus, I reached the 44lvl recently, so my suffering would soon be ending, but every single day I logged in from lvl 32 to lvl 44 I was thinking "what am I doing with my life, rediscovering the mines every single morning..".
The game is "balanced" around the idea that you cannot produce everything of everything yourself and must trade to some degree. Or accept slightly lower economic output. Which is good because none would trade otherwise and only in exorbiantly priced rare items.
Which, ironically enough, is not true.
Everyone who put in some effort in game is perfectly capable of being self sufficient, at least within the realm of producible goods. Not exactly unexpected as the game was slowly moving in that direction ever since watermills made wells obsolete.
Also, what I think is the bigger problem here, the game is not balanced :)
As for the proposal, Im all for any solution that would reduce the time I waste on everyday chores. At this point its nothing more than artificial inflation of time spent in game.
Apart from copper ore, I found the rest of the ores were not really needed in huge quantities. Once you have enough militia/soldiers you only need small amounts of iron to replace any losses of them. I can sometimes go months without building new iron mines.
My biggest drain of iron and titanium has been from unbuffed buildings being accidentally left running for weeks.
Copper on the other hand is a massive pain, the amount consumed by recruits/tools/nibs makes me wonder how people cope without endless copper mines.
My suggestion would be a few more Geologist specialists with extra skills:
1) double sized copper mine size
2) nature's gift (chance to refill a deposit to its original size)
Maybe the Conscientious Geologists could be converted to something with a useful skill.
Sparkz, Kotuko thank you for your opinions.
As for the proposal, Im all for any solution that would reduce the time I waste on everyday chores. At this point its nothing more than artificial inflation of time spent in game.
Fully agree, I understand they try us to login every day and such, but god they actually throwing me away by that. I play daily more for the crystals, guild coins and such already, and they are great and not rage inducing as they don't break whole game for me if I wont do them.
Apart from copper ore, I found the rest of the ores were not really needed in huge quantities. Once you have enough militia/soldiers you only need small amounts of iron to replace any losses of them. I can sometimes go months without building new iron mines.
I might be wrong, but sounds like you don't play PvP.. I do, and I like the tension that it could be taken from me or very happy when someone fails the attack.
I equally love both PvP and Addies.
it seems to me all u want is bigger ore deposits. we would all like something changed in game but this is a very subjective and personal thing.
Perhaps u could find a resource(s) that u can trade for ore deposits. After all this is the current game model which seems to work for e1 else.
lordloocan1
23.10.18, 14:08
Get over it. We now have extra deposits on the archipelago and geologists that find double the size deposit. How's about if BB simply add 5/10/100 extra deposits for you?
You have what you have, learn to work with it, as the vast majority seem to do.
Jeez the guy was only making a suggestion that suits his way of playing. I too wish iron mines lasted longer but i am a lazy player playing for fun and not bothered about getting to lvl 75. Doubt BB will listen to you though unless you are on the favourites list they seem to run ;)
...
Yes, we DO have the following options:
1. Refills
2. Colonies
3. Geologist Skills
I think you're forgetting the most important option; buffs. I use steaks, but that's only a 100% buff. You could go as far as using a rainbow (or even upgrade to max and drop oil on it), if you want more ore. Sure there's up's and down's, but as you said;
...
This game is all about maintaining the economy...
I apreciate new ideas, it keeps the game going. I'm not in favour of this one though.
Thank you for your opinions.
it seems to me all u want is bigger ore deposits. we would all like something changed in game but this is a very subjective and personal thing.
To summarise, yes, but I tried to suggest something that we can "pay" than just asking bigger deposits. Other aspect, reduce grinding for the main resources of the game.
How's about if BB simply add 5/10/100 extra deposits for you?
You have what you have, learn to work with it, as the vast majority seem to do.
If you really care about the game you should provide the feedback, it's up to BB to decide where is simply asking for freebies, and where players try to point out problematic/unfun aspects of the game.
Every game maker have to maintain the balance between fun and grinding. You can't sway too much into either side.
Have game too easy, we would have everything too quickly and would get bored and lose interest, have the game too grindy - and we would be tired quickly.
Having the something to work towards is perfectly fine and healthy for the games, as long as you see the light at the end of tunnel. However, limiting one of the basic resources that are actively used in fun aspects of the game and then provide a lousy solution (refills0 that you have to grind to avoid the other grind is unhealthy. Especially if the game positions itself as "strategy" game.
Doubt BB will listen to you though unless you are on the favourites list they seem to run
I think it's always better to provide the feedback if there are problems and gain the chance that there would be changes, than remaining silent and having zero chances. :) Plus they are reading, but they have the rights to disagree.
I think you're forgetting the most important option; buffs. I use steaks, but that's only a 100% buff. You could go as far as using a rainbow (or even upgrade to max and drop oil on it), if you want more ore. Sure there's up's and down's, but as you said;
No, I haven't forgotten about buffs, if take my island as example, my ores are always lvl2 and always buffed with Irma, that is barely makes + trend in economy.
I might be wrong, but sounds like you don't play PvP.. I do...
I also play Colony Mode, though only started to recently after the Water Castle was changed to a population building. Since starting I haven't felt the need to up my iron chain at all. I am still running the same number of iron smelters as before - with the same buffing regime - and whilst it does take some work building the mines to keep them fed with ore, I certainly don't need to rebuild them daily. As it happens, I had so much excess ore in stock at the beginning of the anniversary event that I took a break from building iron mines for a while and only started up again last week.
I guess that makes my production chain beastly compared. I use the fancy iron willed geo(double deposit size). I upgrade them to level 3, and drop a steak. That fits nicely with the "small" deposits. The 3 big deposits on the archipelago I upgrade to level 4, and steak. My overall iron stockpile is growning, albeit quite slow.
If you dislike rebuilding, you can upgrade the mines to level 5 and drop a bigger buff, that has a shorter duration. That would mean overall more income, which inturn means more time untill you have to rebuild again.
If you are not worried about income, you could stop upgrading the mines, which would lead to the mines lasting longer, but with less output pr hour.
I have a guildie, that has been around... probably since the internet was born *grins*
She flat out refuses to rebuild iron mines anymore, and buys the iron she needs.
You have many options at your disposal. Hope you find one that works for you.
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