View Full Version : Christmas Market - how to use?
Dent_Arthur_Dent
15.12.18, 08:49
Hi everyone,
I can't see that my Christmas Market makes any difference. I placed it in the middle of workyards and the green zone popup indicates 7-8 workyards are in the zone, yet when I turn it on I see no change to production, including:-
1) no visual indication on the map that the building is buffed by the market
2) no indication in a buffed building's popup that it is producing more than normal
3) no indication in the economy overview that the building (or total for that item) is producing more than normal.
Although not mentioned in the Dev Diary, I read in a forum post that it only works on buildings which are not otherwise already buffed. I haven't tested this myself yet, but surely that must be wrong, it is too much of a fundamental limitation for it to have been overlooked in the Dev Diary.
Am I missing something, or is it broken? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Dent_Arthur_Dent
it will not buff buildings that are already buffed
Dent_Arthur_Dent
15.12.18, 10:13
Thanks Kit_ for your reply.
What a useless building then as even at L3 it only breaks even with Aunt Irma's Feast buffs given it can only operate for 12 out of 24 hours. I have asked BB to confirm via support system as frankly I am gobsmacked and furious by this omission from the Dev Diary - I've asked for a refund.
On a related front, does anyone know if the Gingerbread Storage can replace an Island Storehouse? Dev Diary doesn't say it can so presumably it can't, but given the above omission I thought I'd double check.
Wulfmeister
15.12.18, 10:34
I'd assume the gingerbread store can't replace a normal/island/improved store, given that it is a movable building, and therefore opens the possibility of accidentally removing the last store from an occupied sector.
As for the market, I'd guess you have to weigh the relative costs of producing the market buff against the individual buffs for all the affected buildings
I'd assume the gingerbread store can't replace a normal/island/improved store, given that it is a movable building, and therefore opens the possibility of accidentally removing the last store from an occupied sector.
incorrect
gingerbread storage is NOT movable
and it CAN replace a regular/island storehouse
I'm disappointed too. I thought 5x5 would mean buffing 16 tightly packed workshops. It is actually only 8. Having said that, the buff itself is not all that expensive. I'll probably make a permanent position in the middle of, say, my bronze & iron swordsmiths for occasional use. The worst problem is the cost of moving them to make the empty spot. I'm not sure I'll upgrade unless I'm awash with presents at the end of the Event.
https://forum.diesiedleronline.de/threads/135751-Optimaler-Platz-f%C3%BCr-den-Weihnachtsmarkt helped my understanding.
just built mine and fully upgraded it will take a day to fully upgrade buildings already moved so it will cover 30 buildings in my case gold smelters well worth the effort couple with a bucket of sweets more then happy
Wulfmeister
16.12.18, 11:35
incorrect
gingerbread storage is NOT movable
and it CAN replace a regular/island storehouse
OK, I stand corrected. I was sure I'd read somewhere that it was movable, though - I remember being surprised when I read that.
Thejollyone
16.12.18, 17:38
OK, I stand corrected. I was sure I'd read somewhere that it was movable, though - I remember being surprised when I read that.
thought I saw it was movable too... maybe it was on test and they changed their mind
Mannerheim
16.12.18, 17:45
It was never movable but maybe the dev diary tip caught you guys: "While it can't be upgraded, it does make it a perfect candidate for a storehouse you can move around very easily!" which essentially just means than you can quickly demolish it and rebuild it without losing anything.
Wulfmeister
16.12.18, 18:47
It was never movable but maybe the dev diary tip caught you guys: "While it can't be upgraded, it does make it a perfect candidate for a storehouse you can move around very easily!" which essentially just means than you can quickly demolish it and rebuild it without losing anything.
That was probably it - although obviously the "easy" move depends on other stores existing in the sector.
Dent_Arthur_Dent
19.12.18, 08:27
On the basis of Kit_'s post on the 15th, I risked buying the Gingerbread Storage and can indeed confirm that it CAN replace an Island Storehouse. By providing a +50% (6000 unit) storage capacity increase over an L6 Island Storehouse, this building is IMO worthwhile.
I'm still very unhappy with the Christmas Market given its incomplete description in both the Dev Diary and Shop (ie no mention of unbuffed buildings only!). Still waiting on BB to respond fully to the support ticket, although they have actually acknowledged that their description isn't full/complete in this regard.
My issue is that only at L3 does it equal the performance of a standard +100% buff (eg Aunt Irma's Feast) which I use every day on (basically) every workyard on my island. At L4 it does outperform, but the upgrade cost isn't worth it IMO and if I new of the unbuffed limitation at the outset, I would not have bought one.
So far it seems BB's attitude regarding such matters is caveat emptor - I hope to be proved wrong.
Mannerheim
19.12.18, 10:31
I'm still very unhappy with the Christmas Market given its incomplete description in both the Dev Diary and Shop (ie no mention of unbuffed buildings only!). Still waiting on BB to respond fully to the support ticket, although they have actually acknowledged that their description isn't full/complete in this regard.
Well technically it's not completely incomplete as it does what the description says and buffs works like the old ones do. They don't mention it being a buff over a buff nor saying it will replace any buff which would be a new mechanic to the game and would require a mention. It could have been more descriptive that it works to regular buildings only and not for Epic buildings for example.
My issue is that only at L3 does it equal the performance of a standard +100% buff (eg Aunt Irma's Feast) which I use every day on (basically) every workyard on my island. At L4 it does outperform, but the upgrade cost isn't worth it IMO and if I new of the unbuffed limitation at the outset, I would not have bought one.
Level 3 is +200% which means it's a 3x buff, level 4 is +300% which means 4x and is identical to zombie for example.
Dent_Arthur_Dent
19.12.18, 11:05
Thank you Mannerheim for your reply, however, I'm afraid I am going to have to reject everything you have said:-
1) I am not rating HOW complete/incomplete the Dev Diary is, only that it is NOT complete - for me it is a binary thing, it is either right or wrong and I maintain it is wrong because it is NOT complete (as BB have admitted to me via support - I still await their promised full response).
2) I maintain that the Christmas Market does NOT do what it is advertised to do. It says it "buffs workyards", but it should have said it "buffs unbuffed workyards".
3) As Epic builldings are "Epic Workyards" (ie not just "Workyards") I found no confusion there and hadn't expected these buildings to be buffed if inside the Market's "zone". The need special buffs too which only adds to their different status reinforcing their exclusion from Market buffs.
4) Given the Market is the first area buff BUILDING (I believe), it needed to be fully described as to its mechanics. Without any information to the contrary, its operation would be more logical if it operated like the Footie Pitch or Spring Park - ie zone wide buff buildings which ADD TO whatever the workyards are already doing regardless of their buff status (or have I got the mechanics of these buildings wrong all this time?).
5) In terms of performance, you need to factor in that the Market only buffs for 12 hours per day. At L3, +200% for 12 hours and +0% for 12 hours is the same daily production as +100% for 24 hours (ie the same as an Aunt Irma's Feast buff).
6) When comparing performance of the Market I believe you should only consider buffs that last 24 hours and can be produced by the player themselves. Shorter/longer buff durations (inc friend's +50% bonus) undermines the comparison and to buy shop buffs isn't realistic for large quantities or extended use. This limits meaningful comparison to Aunt Irma's Feasts as neither Red Flying Settlers, nor stadium Snacks can be produced in sufficient quantities for daily use on the number of workyards the Christmas Market is intended to work on (let alone two Markets given one comes with the main Christmas Event Quest too).
Sorry I couldn't agree with your post, but I don't think it portrayed the situation correctly.
Mannerheim
19.12.18, 11:26
5) you can run it 24/7 if you want to as with 2 markets the cooldown is 10½h
6) There is not much point to even try to compare to self made buffs since the market outperforms all of em due the high percentage and almost "free" usage cost.
Dent_Arthur_Dent
19.12.18, 11:58
5) You make a very good point about the cooldown period and this is something I hadn't considered (or even noticed actually - see point 5a).
5a) In checking out this issue I was alarmed to discover that once again both the Dev Diary and Shop listing are woefully incomplete. Neither mentions a cooldown period at all.
6) I accept that the Market induced buffs are (almost) free, but I'd argue that home produced buffs such as Aunt Irma's Feasts are sufficiently cheap (at least for mid to high level players with well developed islands) to be suitable for comparison purposes.
6a) My point though was that your comparison used Zombie buffs and I believe it is wrong to compare the Market to buffs you have to buy.
In conclusion, given the halved cooldown time making the Market's performance at L3 significantly superior to Aunt Irma's feasts, I think the Market is now a worthwhile building providing you get two and upgrade them to L3 and I sincerely thank Mannerheim for pointing this out.
I do think BB need their wrists slapped for their woefully incomplete information and strongly urge them to fully describe the mechanics of every new feature in future, especially new concepts such as the Market.
Mannerheim
19.12.18, 12:12
Also note that you do not need to upgrade both unless you want to use them on different locations in different times (cooldown is shared). You can place the other one to the map edge at level 1 just to halve the cooldown. The other one should be upgraded to level 4 if possible since the buff is so good and will help in multiple things later, eg. with Halloween cemeteries.
will help in multiple things later, eg. with Halloween cemeteries.
This one got me excited. Brilliant thinking. :)
will help in multiple things later, eg. with Halloween cemeteries.
ridiculous, i put bags of snow on mine. gl with ur puny market!
so now ur all gonna buy 2 markets and upgrade em both? I'm guessing it still wont stack with zone buffs. BB have lured u all in :D
The description should have explained the non stacking buff system. BB knew exactly how it worked and exactly what they were doing. Usually I put this kind of thing down to ambiguity possibly occurring during translation, but this combined with a gem sale so ppl can buy more in game items is blatant deception.
ridiculous, i put bags of snow on mine. gl with ur puny market!
so now ur all gonna buy 2 markets and upgrade em both? I'm guessing it still wont stack with zone buffs. BB have lured u all in :D
The description should have explained the non stacking buff system. BB knew exactly how it worked and exactly what they were doing. Usually I put this kind of thing down to ambiguity possibly occurring during translation, but this combined with a gem sale so ppl can buy more in game items is blatant deception.
as the market gives the same buff as a rainbow as in +300% when fully upgraded it isnt that puny at least it will never run out like u can when it comes to buffs and it acts like any normal buff so if a zone buff was to affect then it still will....and why would u need both markets upgraded one is enough as long as you have two you will never need to be unbuffed again
i'm not ruling it out altogether, i'm still thinking about where i might use a market. however, consider...
the market isn't mobile. if u want to use it for cemeteries, or regularly change which buildings u want to buff, ur gonna have to do a lot of moving around or leave it idle 50 weeks per year! we all have plenty of explorers, good buffs r just as easy to come by as the resources needed for better market buffs. for many ppl, the market will take up a spot usually reserved for a prod building. How many presents will Hades' plan require? gone r the days when we bought everything in 1st 2 days of event. pop isnt the issue it used to be, but i could use those presents on gb houses and floaters and maybe trade and carry on using the old skool system of buffing.
tbh, i think i just convinced myself.. the market is not for me, but settlers is a very individual game and no doubt some ppl will enjoy using it :)
Mannerheim
20.12.18, 18:03
It costs less than 1k gc in materials (on our server) to move the market at lvl4 so moving it to different places wont be an issue at least anyone lvl 60+. I have 34 explorers all max skilled to artefact search and I would not say that rainbows, for example are that easy to come that you could slap them anywhere anytime. The market buffs 20-30 buildings with a couple of clicks for nearly free "24/7", while those 20-30 rainbows are worth 60k-120k coins (on our server) per the 4 days.
lordloocan
20.12.18, 20:51
Maybe the best way to use it is to leave it in the shop?
hades plan lol ....i just knocked down 46 gbh and been selling them for 750 presents each i am already done with event cleared the shop out of anything of value to me ...i guess it depends on your island no two are the same we all make them work in our own ways ..for me its making coin for others its weapons...i wieghed up if it would benefit me and it has ...
What a worthless building for the amount of presents we had to spend. Both the Christmas Market and the Christmas Tree. Pointless for high level players, not clearly described by the developers and very expensive in gifts. Thus I call this a BB scam, to force us spend on them, and then need to buy presents with gems in order to get something worthy. BlueByte SHAME ON YOU!
Wulfmeister
26.12.18, 10:46
What a worthless building for the amount of presents we had to spend. Both the Christmas Market and the Christmas Tree. Pointless for high level players, not clearly described by the developers and very expensive in gifts. Thus I call this a BB scam, to force us spend on them, and then need to buy presents with gems in order to get something worthy. BlueByte SHAME ON YOU!
OK, so I currently have a market that can buff several buildings around it at +200% for 12 hours, every 12 hours, for a cost of paper and sausages. I have spent a grand total of ZERO gems to get the presents for the upgrades. Most of my presents have come from my explorers, but I have also use the TO. All being well, I'll be upgrading it to L4 in the next few days.
I will need to spend some considerable time and resources to get the optimal outputs from my market buffs, but in no way do I see it as pointless or a scam. Actually, I'm quite enjoying the puzzle of which workyards to place around it.
Brotherjon
26.12.18, 11:29
What’s the resources/cost of moving the market at level 4 please? Can’t seem to find this info...
Mannerheim
26.12.18, 13:25
What’s the resources/cost of moving the market at level 4 please? Can’t seem to find this info...
It's in the dev diary, 2k ewp and 2k granite so it's very cheap to move.
Brotherjon
26.12.18, 16:37
Ah great, thanks
MeneerHepatica
27.12.18, 11:56
What is bothering me is that you can only use 1 christmas market at the time.
In the dev diary nothing is mentioned about that. Now i have two standing but can only use 1 at the time.
Okay benefit is that i can use 1 every 12 hours instead of waiting for 24 hours.
But still it's a bummer....
Wulfmeister
27.12.18, 16:43
What is bothering me is that you can only use 1 christmas market at the time.
In the dev diary nothing is mentioned about that. Now i have two standing but can only use 1 at the time.
Okay benefit is that i can use 1 every 12 hours instead of waiting for 24 hours.
But still it's a bummer....
Yeh, that kinda threw me too - as it stands I've decided to upgrade one and just shove the other one out in a corner somewhere out of the way just to reduce the cooldown. I see no benefit in trying to place it where I can surround it with workyards for buffing 'cos all the buildings I want buffed will be placed around the upgraded market.
MorellaCarter
29.12.18, 09:56
I usually read stuff in here, but haven't had time this christmas because of RL. Obviously I should have, have been using my christmas market ever since I got it in the beginning of the event apparently to no effect. Haven't bothered to check if it works before, just took for granted that it did. Very unneccesary. Agree with everyone who's said that it should be in the description that it doesn't work on buffed buildings.
Wulfmeister
29.12.18, 10:26
Agree with everyone who's said that it should be in the description that it doesn't work on buffed buildings.
But why? The only buffs that have any impact on buffed buildings are zone buffs - none of the other area buffs such as Kitty Lure and Effective Traps have an impact on buffed buildings. Nor do any of the standard buffs you have in your star menu. It's completely consistent.
Brotherjon
29.12.18, 12:30
There was plenty of opportunity to test it in the test server, didn’t take long and worth doing for the cost involved.
What is bothering me is that you can only use 1 christmas market at the time.
In the dev diary nothing is mentioned about that. Now i have two standing but can only use 1 at the time.
Okay benefit is that i can use 1 every 12 hours instead of waiting for 24 hours.
But still it's a bummer....
why did you expect BB should change the way all recent buff-buildings works. More buildings mean faster production or shorter cooldown.
MorellaCarter
29.12.18, 22:22
But why? The only buffs that have any impact on buffed buildings are zone buffs - none of the other area buffs such as Kitty Lure and Effective Traps have an impact on buffed buildings. Nor do any of the standard buffs you have in your star menu. It's completely consistent.
Well for the same reason that I think that other area buffs should be described as well, I thought they too had an effect on buffed buildings. :P I thought area buffs worked the same as zone buffs, but for a smaller zone. Haven't even noticed that they don't work that way though, but with this christmas market it's a lot of presents, so naturally it impacts me more.
Dent_Arthur_Dent
30.12.18, 11:00
Haven't revisited my thread for a while and I see that others have now discovered another undocumented mechanic - that you can't use both Markets at once as they share the cooldown. Fortunately, I hadn't upgraded my second Market and so can just relocate it out of the way as others have suggested, but still - poor show BB for yet another undocumented mechanic, although here I accept it is at least consistent with how other cooldown buildings work - I remind all though that the Dev Diary fails to mention the Market has a cooldown mechanic at all!
My main reason for posting is to find whether anyone else is having issues with the L4 11x11 buff area. 11x11 isn't big enough for three full "rings" around a market, but it is big enough for half a third ring and based on the centre square being the the bottom square of the 2x2 Market size, this should mean the third half ring on the FRONT L+R sides. Problem is that despite the green 11x11 popup grid suggesting that, it doesn't buff the third half ring here - has anyone else found this themselves?
I'm currently waiting on cooldown to finish to test whether it buffs the third half ring on the BACK L+R sides and will report back, but my fear is that the effective centre square for the 11x11 isn't the same as for the 5x5 or 9x9 grids.
My main reason for posting is to find whether anyone else is having issues with the L4 11x11 buff area. 11x11 isn't big enough for three full "rings" around a market, but it is big enough for half a third ring and based on the centre square being the the bottom square of the 2x2 Market size, this should mean the third half ring on the FRONT L+R sides. Problem is that despite the green 11x11 popup grid suggesting that, it doesn't buff the third half ring here - has anyone else found this themselves?Not certain what your issue is as it's not very clear to me. I get this with the one by mayors house prnt.sc/m19iu2 and this with one in S9 prnt.sc/m19j44 I am not interested in using them to buff minor buildings, only the major ones.
topgearfan
30.12.18, 14:15
Haven't revisited my thread for a while and I see that others have now discovered another undocumented mechanic - that you can't use both Markets at once as they share the cooldown. Fortunately, I hadn't upgraded my second Market and so can just relocate it out of the way as others have suggested, but still - poor show BB for yet another undocumented mechanic, although here I accept it is at least consistent with how other cooldown buildings work
Why on earth would you want each market to have independent cooldown? You would have to pay 9000 presents for each market to make them useful! Also you would not get 24h buffing with single market. 12 buffed and 12 hour non buffed cycle - that would be a real pain and make the market useless imo. Only way would be to have 2 upgraded markets side by side. Then some buildings would still not get 24h buffs. Awful in every way I can think of.
Haven't revisited my thread for a while and I see that others have now discovered another undocumented mechanic - that you can't use both Markets at once as they share the cooldown. Fortunately, I hadn't upgraded my second Market and so can just relocate it out of the way as others have suggested, but still - poor show BB for yet another undocumented mechanic, although here I accept it is at least consistent with how other cooldown buildings work - I remind all though that the Dev Diary fails to mention the Market has a cooldown mechanic at all!
My main reason for posting is to find whether anyone else is having issues with the L4 11x11 buff area. 11x11 isn't big enough for three full "rings" around a market, but it is big enough for half a third ring and based on the centre square being the the bottom square of the 2x2 Market size, this should mean the third half ring on the FRONT L+R sides. Problem is that despite the green 11x11 popup grid suggesting that, it doesn't buff the third half ring here - has anyone else found this themselves?
I'm currently waiting on cooldown to finish to test whether it buffs the third half ring on the BACK L+R sides and will report back, but my fear is that the effective centre square for the 11x11 isn't the same as for the 5x5 or 9x9 grids.
check this link for how to check covering - Christmas Market fails (https://forum.thesettlersonline.com/threads/36684-Christmas-Market-fails)
Dent_Arthur_Dent
30.12.18, 21:40
Thanks to halv12 for the link to the "Market Fails" thread, this identified that Market buffs only apply to workyards with their bottom corner within the buff area. Therefore, the L4 11x11 grid, being only 1x square ALL ROUND bigger than the L2/L3 9x9 grids, forces you to waste 3x potential building slots - the attached screenshot will hopefully explain what I mean.
Here you will see my L4 Christmas Market surrounded by a regular(ish) grid of workyards. The outer red line indicates the workyards that are within the Market's 11x11 buff grid. Those on the bottom L+R sides are fully within the buff grid, whilst those on the top L+R sides are only within for half their building footprint, but including their all important "bottom corners".
The purple lines indicate a 1x square empty space all around the Market - ie the Market is positioned in the middle 2x2 squares of a 4x4 grid thereby wasting three potential 2x2 building slots if you were to place the market in the corner of the 4x4 grid. However, if you move the Market one square in any direction the 11x11 grid then fails to cover the bottom corner of all the workyards it moves away from.
I don't think I am missing anything obvious here, but it seems to me that it is simply not possible to cover more workyards that "two rings" around the Market because of this. The theoretical maximum number of 2x2 workyards an L4 Market could possibly buff is therefore 32, but I dont think there is anywhere on the island that can accommodate that. Here I've managed to get 26 workyards and I think that maybe the max possible, even with cleared mountains in zone 9.
Thanks to halv12 for the link to the "Market Fails" thread, this identified that Market buffs only apply to workyards with their bottom corner within the buff area. Therefore, the L4 11x11 grid, being only 1x square ALL ROUND bigger than the L2/L3 9x9 grids, forces you to waste 3x potential building slots - the attached screenshot will hopefully explain what I mean.
Here you will see my L4 Christmas Market surrounded by a regular(ish) grid of workyards. The outer red line indicates the workyards that are within the Market's 11x11 buff grid. Those on the bottom L+R sides are fully within the buff grid, whilst those on the top L+R sides are only within for half their building footprint, but including their all important "bottom corners".
The purple lines indicate a 1x square empty space all around the Market - ie the Market is positioned in the middle 2x2 squares of a 4x4 grid thereby wasting three potential 2x2 building slots if you were to place the market in the corner of the 4x4 grid. However, if you move the Market one square in any direction the 11x11 grid then fails to cover the bottom corner of all the workyards it moves away from.
I don't think I am missing anything obvious here, but it seems to me that it is simply not possible to cover more workyards that "two rings" around the Market because of this. The theoretical maximum number of 2x2 workyards an L4 Market could possibly buff is therefore 32, but I dont think there is anywhere on the island that can accommodate that. Here I've managed to get 26 workyards and I think that maybe the max possible, even with cleared mountains in zone 9.
i have 30 gold smelters covered by my market quite happy with that makes me more enough gold bars coupled with a bucket of sweets and frees up the 30 snacks i was using
Dent_Arthur_Dent
31.12.18, 07:21
hades8840, please could you post a picture of your 30x smelters
topgearfan
01.01.19, 00:44
whats the walking times like with this setup? how long is the worst one?
whats the walking times like with this setup? how long is the worst one?
the worst smelter is 13 mins 20 secs but is only 1 like that but the smelters make just under 100k bars a day
In s2 you will find space for 30 buildings, here you go :)
https://prnt.sc/m2byak
lordloocan
02.01.19, 23:09
Looking for clarification please. If got a market at level 4 and have a 2nd market is there any gain to be has levelling up the 2nd one?
Looking for clarification please. If got a market at level 4 and have a 2nd market is there any gain to be has levelling up the 2nd one?
No they will have a shared CD so i see no point in upgrading market nr 2, simply just place it to half CD ..
lordloocan
03.01.19, 16:13
No they will have a shared CD so i see no point in upgrading market nr 2, simply just place it to half CD ..
Cheers
Did I got it right? The markets cannot be used to boost already buffed building. If that is true, than it is as useful as flowerbed, since there are much better buffs.
Can I remove building without loosing those expensive upgrades?
Did I got it right? The markets cannot be used to boost already buffed building. If that is true, than it is as useful as flowerbed, since there are much better buffs.
Can I remove building without loosing those expensive upgrades?
No idea how you can say that this can buff upto 30 workyards if fully upgraded with a x4 buff same as a stadium snack or rainbow for basically nothing resource wise ...common sense tells you its not on top of buffs as its not a zone buff
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