A new thread by BB to compile a list of currently undesirable adventures or problems

Yep. And then a place to politely respond (by the community) as to why adventure X is simply not worth doing and what might be changed to make them more interesting. That way they can interact with the community (I would seriously like to see more response from BB tbh ....) while getting ideas to fix things and people can actually read they are heard.
The thread starts with of course a post from BB. Then the next response will be from someone having played adventure X and finds it is terrible to do. He then explains as to why it is terrible and then suggests a fix.

Example:

Island of the Pirates.
Problem: regular part of guild quests: too high cost in guild coins
Suggestion: Lower the cost or remove it from guild quests.

or

Dark Priests
Problem: regular part of guild quests: Can only be found with a very low drop chance.
Suggestion: Add it to the map fragment section, gem section and/or Guild Coins

or

Dark Brotherhood
Problem: Massive cost in units vs a not reasonable return in resources
Suggestion: rebalance the enemies

These are all examples (well some of them are actually true -_-) and they need to be fixed.
We had weapons removed, epic buildings drop chances highly nerfed, some adventures removed from place where we coud get them as needed for guild quests and Fairy tales made a lot harder.

BB it is time to step up and fix this and talk to us I'd say.

Whilst I agree with what many are saying regarding adventures and especially those needed for guild quests I think its always going to be subjective on many others.

Something may be very difficult at Level 32 but too easy at Level 50 so who do you please? Take the example of Dark Brotherhood you mention above, this adventure is easy for a L50 who buys a weapon buff or 2 from the Epic shop in exchange for otherwise useless Star Coins and yet that person could do three adventures (if swapping) and have 3 chances for a Witch Tower that can be sold for 50k coins fairly easily or alternatively can sell the 2 loot spots for around 7k coins and still have a much smaller chance of the Witch Tower. Either route they still get a significant boost on their xp / star coins. As such its not an unreasonable adventure.


To many people are spoilt by thinking every adventure should give decent loot and xp and opportunity for profit, all for low losses - that's never been the case.


One adventure I would love to see BB remove (but they wont as to many will quit) is Roaring Bull. For me this adventure is the key adventure that provides to many, a means to cheaply level up, lose a low amount of troops and make massive profits. Getting rid of this adventure would do more overnight to rebalance people views of reward / experience based adventures.

your star coins are better spent buying SoLT adventures then running crappy DB. if u want a witch tower just do RB anyways. and even with buffs the adv is still terrible. and is horrible to level up. DB loot should really be improved so its actually worth doing.

why have all adventures worth doing, that's crazy talk right. way better to use up twice more resources then what you get, cuz adventuring is so fun and not repetitive at all.

we know you've been playing the game for nearly 3y and have millions of everything so you dont care what adventure drops, well thankfully not every1 is like that.

No you totally didn't get the point of my response.


Adventures are subjective and mean different things to different people. Here is an easy example - I do Secluded Experiments now and again. I do it for fun. I generally give away the loot spots or swap them. I don't care about the troops lost or the rewards. I don't even do it for the Angel Gate as the last one I had got given away to a friend that collected them - he paid a stone for it and I was happy. Yes I am fortunate in having an economy that supports this approach but does that mean that as 90% of people wont ever do SE because it has a bad reputation or because its to hard should it get binned by BB? I hope not.


Adventures become easier the further you advance - Example, I can do Island of The Pirates and lose less that 300 recruits (and get 525 settlers as a reward) and yet a L35 can't say the same. Likewise with BK or RB they become easier and the losses become lower.


In essence adventures are typically categorised as experience adventures (where you get good xp but rubbish rewards), or reward adventures (where the rewards are better but the xp is rubbish). The Epic adventures are supposed to be that - a truly epic experience where you are rewarded for a high amount of effort (and associated losses). RB falls into the Epic category and it truly isn't epic in its requirements and yet does give good loot and good xp so yes I think it is imbalanced and I would rather see it become an experience adventure or a reward adventure as the whole idea of the Epics has been a big fail.






PS - Not sure why I would want to do any more Fairy Tale adventures for a while. I have the rewards I wanted, I have 98k beans for which there is nothing to spend them on, I am not a huge trader of resources so that doesn't help me and most importantly with the lag and ghosting of generals they are far to buggy which means they don't fall into my 'do them for fun' list.

I get where you are coming from fishslice. But for example DB is not meant for lvl 50. It is meant for lvl 42 and up. That it gets easy at 50 sure, nice but then make it a lvl 50 adventure. Epic buildings have been HEAVILY nerfed with their droprates. Blackcastle went from for example 4.8% to a MERE 0.75%. That 20 adventures for a single one vs 133 adventures. Witch Tower? 5% old rate now: 0.45% That is 20 adventures vs over 200. And an adventure which costs 1495 gems (not counting the .5% chance of drops on the nords as that is pretty much once in a lifetime) with the frozen Manor had it reduced from 1 in 3 to 5% aka ONE IN TWENTY. I can understand some nerf, I can understand the removal of weapons. But I cannot understand that the loot has not rebalanced at all. Adding a few settlers and pinewood?
Hate to tell you with your 135 Frozen manors, probably millions of weapons, but this is not the case for all the people right now. Look at your island and imagine if the cost to get all that had been 10-20 higher. Because THAT is essentially what non-level 50 players are facing at the moment. There is people that have frozen manors in their star menu because selling them is pointless. Stuff others could really use. But they will never see circulation. And what has now happened is that now on top of such great items rotting away in star menu's getting these really needed things has become a ridiculously hard task. Yes you may have millions of weapons, tons of DPs, IotPs, granite, Frozens and what not, rotting away in your star menu. Fact is they are NOT on the market. Fact is getting them now is 10 times harder then you ever experienced. We get FAR less for essentially the same or more work then you had to put in. And now even guildquests are heavily affected. I don't have 10million guildcoins like you. I have enough to buy things when they recycle the content of the guild store and maybe a few other things. If I have to add 1400 Guildcoins every week or so (yes two IotP's per 1-2 weeks) then the amout I have will evaporate.
Go ahead make a new account. Lvl 1. On a different server. Now try to reach what you have in the same amount of time with the exact same amount spent on it.
Not happening. In fact you will find a significantly higher cost in the range of 10-20 times compared to before. Build cannons? Good luck getting the titanium for it. Because they don't drop from adventures anymore. So it is VERY VERY easy to speak from your lofty privileged position. But put yourself in the shoes of everyone that started playing around 4-5 months ago. Then talk again. I won't be able to afford cannons at lvl 48 for example. You by then had probably enough cannons stocked to last you years. Notice the difference? Notice how that WILL impact every adventure in costs? So yes, you have it easy, you find it easy. The new people? Well appearantly that they will have 10 times more difficulty is not something you can imagine.

Also: Not everybody can block. These people have a far higher cost. BB should not set the rewards to people that can block. It should be set to "normal" way of killing camps.

Not all adventures need the full adventure doing. Some like SE do and like Fishslice I enjoy running it just for the change of pace. Others like DB can be done in shortened form and if your willing to take time to wait for gens to recover even the loses are minimal.

For every adventure which is said not to be worth running I have known players who do like running them.

However this does not change the fact that they have broken the quest system with the changes of the 25/11. I delete any guild quest which calls for my fellow guild members to do Pirates or Nords purely because of the cost in Trade. Unfortunately we can't say the cost of Nords for gems is unfair since the gem cost of completing the GQ with gems is way cheaper.

Also BB have been very reluctant to enter into any form of dialogue such as this.

If your guild is pressurizing you to complete the GQ's I would ask are you in the right guild. You need to be playing the game your way at you pace.

Look is it fair that they have to delete a guild quest because BB decided to remove the adventures needed to complete them? BB should have foreseen it and changed the GQ's. Is it fair if I don't contribute to GQ's while others do? That means I get Guild coins while not putting in any work. Not fair to the guildmembers that do put in work now is it? Btw the only Nords for Gems is Invasion of the Nords. 1495 IS unfair for an adventure with a now heavily nerfed droprate on the epic building, no more weapons in the loot either. So in no way does it merit that high price anymore compared to what it used to give. They basically now give a Lada for the same price as where before you got a Ferrari.

Again: You like running certain adventures with your HUGE stocks you have build up over the past 2.5 years. So yes quite easy for you. Now imagine you would have to do those adventures WITHOUT those stocks. Lose 200 cannons for you = no big deal. you probably have 100K sitting in your star menu anyway. losing 200 cannons for someone that started 4-5 months ago? HUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEEEE deal. No cannons drop from loot. So that means they have to make them. Which means titanium, Salpeter, Exo wood and what else not. Drops they don't have huge stocks of either and which cost a fortune on the market. So these players that like running them? They are the ones with millions in stock. They can easily afford to do them. I am asking you to put yourself into the perspective of the people that do NOT have these stocks. And that will NEVER get them, because the people with the huge stocks don't need anything anymore so they don't sell them and just let them collect dust in their inventories.

The people that have huge stocks of cannons (and I am not one of them hence running my cannon makers) have so because they didn't sell every loot item they received for profit which seems to be the way of many that trade for loot spots - but that wasn't the point I was making. I agreed with your original post about how the adventures are broken - especially in respect to guild quests and BB should do something about that. I also said that its always going to be a very subjective area.


Lets stick with DB for a second. I see a lootspot for DB being sold for around 2.5k coins with a weapon buff to reduce Cavalry casualties down to the 250 ish area and the other lootspot around 3.5k coins on a regular basis. In that instance even a Level 42 player, without blocking, gets to complete the adventure with pretty low loses, gets high xp (in relation to the losses), decent loot opportunities and a chance of a very high value building. That doesn't sound like a very epic size of adventure to me.


On your other point regarding my star menu. Yes I may have a pretty full star menu but that is for 2 reasons;
1) I am a hoarder and over the time I have played I haven't typically sold off resources as I gained them. This has meant that each time I have unlocked new capabilities within the game I have been able to make them. I see many people complain that the resources to make cannons or such like are to high yet that's only because as soon as possible they started doing Epic adventures all the time and selling the lootspots. If you consider what resources you get from 3 BK's or 3 RB's then you should easily be able to build enough stocks to deal with occasional accidents. This approach though is based upon a swapping mentality, something that is missing for many in the game.
2) I have invested (possibly more than most) in gems in the game. That was my choice and my playing style and I have no regrets. But having been a heavy gem based player, I haven't had to go to trade to buy my Nobles, my Watermills or even my Frozen Manors which came from using a vast number of gems to open the 2013 version of the Christmas boxes. This means all those loots that others have traded have accumulated over time. Has this given me an advantage? Of course it has, but if it hadn't then I wouldnt have bought the gems in the first place and neither would many others. If that had been the case then this game would never have made it past the closed beta and peoples wages would not have been paid.


On the first point above, I do feel the need to say that whilst I am a hoarder I am not and have never been a player that just wants to store more and more resources. I tend to get to a level of resources I am comfortable with and then the rest I consider surplus. They go to help other players at various times, but typically I only help other players that I see also trying to create an island that supports their style. After all what is the point in giving someone 5k steel swords when they show no intention of ever making any steel swords themselves. If they create an island that supports their playing style of economy based activity and sell every iron ore they ever loot or mine then I will recommend they get their swords in the same manner - ie trade.


The second point above is an important one. This is a free to play game and for someone that doesn't invest heavily in gems it is still relatively easy to advance to Level 50 in a fairly short time period. That being said if people invest heavily in gems then they should expect to see a benefit from that. They do, but in reality the only benefit is a time based one as they get to do things a little quicker or a little easier. So in that respect there is a reasonable balance on most in-game activities and BB should continue to make some things harder for those that haven't invested heavily in making this a free game to many hundreds of thousands of people.


regards,
fish

I haven't read all the previous entries but I have a suggestion re: DB.

Instead of rebalancing enemies, it'd be a lot better if the time of training cavs would be reduced to be on the same level as for recruits. Horses are now cheap - not to mention they drop from every loot - and also, it is no longer worth to make bread, so people could use the wheat and water for making horses instead. And even if making cavs costs a lot more than making Rs for example (I'm not sure about that. BS prices seem to have taken off lately), the main reason people don't like losing them is that it takes half a day to retrain the amount lost. Which is why at the moment they only get sacrificed if it is absolutely necessary (i.e. on DB but, apart from WoTS with normal generals, I can't even remember another example where they do) and nobody is making horses or buying/selling them apart from very low levels who don't get them in loot yet.

So in short: reduce the training time of cavs and make them another unit type worth being used as cannon fodder and retraining.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhylian

Example:

Island of the Pirates.
Problem: regular part of guild quests: too high cost in guild coins
Suggestion: Lower the cost or remove it from guild quests.

or

dark Brotherhood
Problem: Massive cost in units vs a not reasonable return in resources
Suggestion: rebalance the enemies


BB it is time to step up and fix this and talk to us I'd say.

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Maybe not lower /rebalance difficulty but increase the reward (Guild coins and/or Loot), as you cant expect BB to make difficult "ëpic" adv less hard :P

p.s. +1 fishslice