Proof the German servers (and possibly others) HAVE used an exploit in EOTW

So BB, you shut our threads down and your mods made posts that implied that we're all paranoid and bitter about the state of the EOTW leaderboard. But here is a post from the German forums that proves they've been using an exploit, and they admit it.

http://forum.diesiedleronline.de/thr...l=1#post722704

For those of you who don't speak German, basically they've been cancelling the adventure after the first sub-quest, and this has been counting towards their total. Which is probably why they're streets ahead of the rest of us.

We pointed out to BB not long after the event started that this was a glitch and it was being exploited, but they shut all talk down. I said in G-4 that if people were cheating it would all come out somehow. Either BB would have to admit it (I still believe in Christmas miracles) or the perpetrators would start bragging about it. And here we are.

This event was a sham from the get go, with young, low level servers pitted against old, high level servers. Even if it glitch-free, some of us never stood a chance.

I don't think ANYONE should get a reward from this. Just scrap the event and move on. It's the only way for it to be fair. If you give prizes to everyone you're still rewarding the cheats.

And before this thread gets closed down, perhaps someone from BB or a mod can explain exactly what has been done to prove

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Originally Posted by Sinister-King

no such exploit exists

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Well, maybe an indication. I doubt anyone can prove anything though except BB themselves.

There is no public info how many adventures have been counted per server or any other base stat used in calculating the progression percentages.

However- if many people on the server are admitting to using said tactic and that server is going up the rankings faster- there will be a clear case of smkoke and hence likelyhood of a fire aka a working exploit

The exploit will be worth a fair few euros to each person on the server as the one getting first to 100%, highest ranking and to 200% (which looks to be german 06 server atm for all 3 prizes) being 1250 gems, 3 x nords 2 x pirate residence, 2 silo, 2 watermills 10 buffs and a gold trophee and some minor goodies

But it is time for BB to come with some reaction imo which goes a bit further than the standard replies

this made me so disappointed when I read it...

It's like the parrot bug debacle all over again. - and that debacle caused a few of us to have trust issues with corporate BlueByte.

The Moderators can only work from the guidelines that have been set for them, and I actually think they do a very good job in what is sometimes very difficult situations.

However - BlueByte could have done a lot more here. Issues were raised last week with BB_Dantesama and he investigated and came back with an answer on the forum.

I decided to accept that answer. However, when I then see the contents of the German forums - It makes me think again... I do not trust the answer, and it has nothing to do with BB_Dantesama. It has to do withe the way BlueBute has behaved previously. Trust has to be earned.

I applaud BB for coming up with an event, but at the moment the whole thing leaves a rather sour taste in my mouth.

Surely BB have the capability to see who fully completed the adventure, even if it's only by the time taken?

Unless they're saying it's not a glitch because it's acceptable to do it this way, in which case they should have come out and said that to all the servers, instead of letting others gain an unfair advantage.

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Originally Posted by Icegirl

Surely BB have the capability to see who fully completed the adventure, even if it's only by the time taken?

Unless they're saying it's not a glitch because it's acceptable to do it this way, in which case they should have come out and said that to all the servers, instead of letting others gain an unfair advantage.

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Your premise is still that it works- Which is not proven. It might be likely but that is the firmest the accusations can get atm. And the only ones that can really look into it and come with an answer is BB- who now have the additional issues of distrust to deal with

So the biggest losers are actually the people donating goods for the others to do the adventure as it should've been done! The fair way requires the whole server population to work as a team, lower levels supporting the higher but that way we'll get nowhere. Those who never gave any resources away or sold Eotw for high prices are the only ones to benefit on our server. This just feels wrong. :(

Something else I just found out is that BB made an official announcement on the German front page about how only full adventures will count, but didn't make the same announcement to the other 20-odd non-German servers. And then people wonder why others get so paranoid!

If this is the case, is there going to be a full investigation into each servers completed adventures before prizes are awarded?

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Originally Posted by BlueFairy

this made me so disappointed when I read it...

It's like the parrot bug debacle all over again. - and that debacle caused a few of us to have trust issues with corporate BlueByte.

The Moderators can only work from the guidelines that have been set for them, and I actually think they do a very good job in what is sometimes very difficult situations.

However - BlueByte could have done a lot more here. Issues were raised last week with BB_Dantesama and he investigated and came back with an answer on the forum.

I decided to accept that answer. However, when I then see the contents of the German forums - It makes me think again... I do not trust the answer, and it has nothing to do with BB_Dantesama. It has to do withe the way BlueBute has behaved previously. Trust has to be earned.

I applaud BB for coming up with an event, but at the moment the whole thing leaves a rather sour taste in my mouth.

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I agree
1) Previous times denials and fixes have made the word of BB not always to be taken at face value
2) The discrepancies between servers is huge and needs to be analyzed and explained. If this means giving some more data like percentage of active players that completed 1 or more adventures and some analysis of differences between servers. Issues raised by players focus on a few things:
a) Tradability of adventures and discrepancies between servers in this
b) The counting bug after first sub quest pops up
c) Maturity of server population and impact in ability to finish the adventure (there is no low lvl version to accomodate lack of certain troops)
d) The availability of 220 general
e) Stability of population (meaning some servers are locked for new players and hence have a much stabler population of active players over time, others are open and will have a more fluctuating population of active players
f) last but probably most important: Definition of active players - why this is a far definition and how this is impacting statistics (1 login of a 26+ in the previous 30 days triggers the active flag- how many of these actives have not logged in during event at all and basically were counted wrongly in the statistics)

And yes- this event really exited me when i read about it- even though i would lose a lot of gold doing it as i am sacrificing troops and materials to complete an adventure with underwhelming loots and worthless xp (at lvl 50) so the benefit is not in any comparison to the rewards for the adventure itself in any way- especially considering i had to buy adventures at the beginning @ 60 mf as they weren't tradable and i ran out of the explorer found ones fairly fast (running 3 to 4 adventures a day depletes them fast) To my surprise i couldnt equate the efforts i saw on server and number of completed adventures announced in G-4 with the statistics that showed up on the website- unless BB was either not registering all wins or the number of actives used to calculate the percentages was hugely inflated

Maybe one way for BB to show that the competition was fair and there were too many slackers is to post the highest % of adventures completed per server as 100% and all other servers ranked behind it in a % based on this highest percentage. If that gives a similar outcome at least we know it is not the number of actives (still has the counting of incompleted adventures as posted on german forums to solve as a potential issue/cheat)

If it dosn't work then surley they would be miles behind from wasting their time..
On our BF3 Teamspeak 2 germans have said all week they are doing the above method, infact there whole guild was demanding everyone did it, as not completing the 'whole quest' meant no heavy losses, so even low level players could acheive a score.

Let us keep bashing adventures and hope BB gives a reaction. The stats isnt updated and BB surely will understand this exploit is used,making pp unmotivated wich gives extra unfair odds. The idea was great high level players kicked into action again,g4 made server more fun. Its just sad for BB their idea is ...... up by obvious some german players and who knows more.

I just hope proper actions will be taken no innocent players will be punished and i know its wishfull hoping Bb learns.
I just fear the scammers wont be punished and the fair players wich clearly had odds and later motivation against them will pay the price and Bb will act like no exploit was used.

I really really hope this is not the situation and at the very least we should recieve a full report into this not just a ( no you are wrong response )

Exploit or not, somethings wrong when one server takes such a strong lead from the start (followed by to other older servers)

also only German and Polish servers are in the top 15, non of the difrent nations servers pass the 100%

we don't have any information on how populated are servers here in TSO, but it can't be possible 2-3 realms can complete the objectives easily fast and other servers (majority) are left behind by a mile. Definately somethings up, would be nice to see official statement either way.

If this is no fixed myself and most players will leave.

Cheating is wrong and they should be punished for it, can clearly see who is cheating and who is not.

so why BB no adjourn stat? if old players are more strong and do more adventure , why german server 1 no is first on all ? for german server 6.... from 100% at 150% in a day. is a fact.

all clues bring in in same direction....

Elementary dr. Watson

If you were BB, what would you do to fix this? I imagine they don't actually have granular enough detail to see who has and hasn't done 100% (if this actually exists of course). So you can't just punish the "cheaters"

Start it again, have everyone who put everything in have their efforts wiped out?
Give everyone the 200% reward? So those who tried less get it anyway?
Give everyone 100%? So the servers who managed to break 150% get less?

Be tricky to be in their shoes right now.

If that's true then i'd like to know how they've fully completed so many (Forgot to post the one I was replying ot - Icegirls comment that BB posted on the German forum that only completed adventures will count)

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Originally Posted by peck_ed

If you were BB, what would you do to fix this? ... Be tricky to be in their shoes right now.

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Firstly, an apology would be nice.

Secondly, a forum poll asking all players of all servers to vote on how to proceed from here might restore some faith amongst players.

Suggested options :

a) Restore servers back to the point where we were before the event started
b) Give everyone 200%
c) Cancel the event and play Scrooge

While it's possible that there's some dodge that has allowed older more populated servers (those not in beta too) to leap ahead i just think it's so much more likely that the event was just skewed in their favour from the start.

I know there was some statement about balancing going on with the results but never actually defining what the balancing system was... and, if as it seem, the balancing actually makes no difference when the adventure prohibits lower level players and big surprise when the newest servers are at the bottom.. the mid-aged ones in the middle and the original ones at the top.

All in all it was an ok idea, poorly implemented, created mistrust and unhappiness in the players who could take part and disappointment in those who can't due to level and crappy rewards.

I also love how the leaderboard actually backfired.. it was supposed to help and encourage participation.. instead once we saw how far behind we were in the first 24 hours a lot of people just gave up and after a few days those left worked out how unlikely we were to even reach 100% it declined even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peck_ed

If you were BB, what would you do to fix this? I imagine they don't actually have granular enough detail to see who has and hasn't done 100% (if this actually exists of course). So you can't just punish the "cheaters"

Start it again, have everyone who put everything in have their efforts wiped out?
Give everyone the 200% reward? So those who tried less get it anyway?
Give everyone 100%? So the servers who managed to break 150% get less?

Be tricky to be in their shoes right now.

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I would just want an answer not interested in the rewards! Being open and honest goes a long way to gain respect, at the moment do we really trust them, people who answer with one line responses usually are hiding something, a simple no that is not the case is in most cases pretty lame.

Stamping your feet to get attention will do us no good, but requesting a proper response may ... hopefully give us some answers.

Saying that I still think the Rankings would not have changed too much

http://translate.google.com/translat...ndo%3Fp%3D8332

This was posted just now in the German server, looks like BB are once again saying you need to 100% it to complete it.

Just now is 3 days late and 3 days they been bad boys. but not all have done the bad but those that have have contributed to there percent without it being taken off
or adjusted. They also agree its unfair for newer servers with lower level players giving the newer servers less chance.
Reading the rules the ones saying the cheat on german servers should have be banned for speaking oof they way to do it
but are they i dont think so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peck_ed

http://translate.google.com/translat...ndo%3Fp%3D8332

This was posted just now in the German server, looks like BB are once again saying you need to 100% it to complete it.

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This is the type of reply we wanted from BB_Ros I am more than happy wih that reply thanks, pity it is on the German Forums

its latin america...

in germany it is still rankings fair and balanced calculated according to specific criteria. " (BB_Pandur)

An interesting observation ..... no response from BlueByte on ANY of these threads about the EotW adventure scoring !!! ... THAT SAYS IT ALL !!! Just "Light the touchpaper and run ....! ". Typical !

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Originally Posted by HogarHorrible

An interesting observation ..... no response from BlueByte on ANY of these threads about the EotW adventure scoring !!! ... THAT SAYS IT ALL !!! Just "Light the touchpaper and run ....! ". Typical !

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because he replied on a different topic ?

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Originally Posted by BB_Dantesama

Hey guys,

I have gathered of all your feedback, it has been sent to the right people.

I do understand how you guys feel and I have asked for a better explanation.

I'm awaiting more information. I will keep you informed as soon as I know.

Best

BB_Dantesama

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Hey guys,

I did not want to sound like Captain Obvious but I'll throw in my two cents on what's going right now.

It is pretty obvious that some servers (german mainly) had an advantage due to the fact that they have a lot more higher level players (older server).

The lack of precision in numbers and the lack of infomation on the calculation process have been an issue indeed, I think this has caused confusion on your objectives for the adventure, this would also explain the conspiracy theories, the cheat rumours, trust issues...

We will provide more details next time.

So yes, the stat calculation is flawed, It's actually far from being perfect. However, NO, cheats do not exist for this contest.
I will try and provide more details on the calculation process and how cancelling a quest was DETRIMENTAL to the Contest more than anything else.
Remember, this is BB's first attempt in organising a little competition between servers. Your feedback is crucial and things will be different next time round.

I actually think this has been a positive event, (beyond the obvious faults) it has brought people together and united them. This has also giving you an idea/hint on how your server might react facing future PVP events.

I will forward any information I have as soon as I have any.

Best

BB_Dantesama

I would like an answer to the following question: what does 100% actually mean? How is it possible that half of the servers cannot reach even this 100% mark in ten days?

I would like this investigation to provide the following data: breakdown of levels for each server (number of players with each level), number of players and number of active players for each server (per the definition of "active" that you used for this adventure), and in line with this topic shortest duration of completed adventure for each server.

Also, an explanation for "Sandycove/Newfoundland mystery". AFAIK Newfoundland is older than Sandycove, so it should have more high level players. The explanation of "older servers being advantageous" does not apply to this case, so what's the explanation?

Maybe it is just me... but if the calculation is flawed, doesn't that mean,there actual will be loopholes, if you find a way to use them, then you would raise quickly. Well I just find it a little strange, that they manage to do the quickly raise, so far, I only have the idea, that the calculation might include low level players,who can't go on the adventure yet, and if that is true, that is truely a flaw.

Well all rumours start with a reason, and I think it is a bit weird, that some servers just manage to take a leap on almost 20 percent point down to the second, and just keep it that way. I have been making the adventure some times, and not really looking like it making any difference to the server, and even though, I hear people been a lot more active than me, so makes it strange, since our server is that far behind. I also wonder, what those mini quest along the adventure does, since you from time to time, receive something for solving them, and other times, you don't, not make lot of sense to me.

Having just read the very first message in this thread i have a message for "edit". In the immortal words of Sir Alan Sugar .... "You're Fired !". The claim that "No such exploit exists" is clearly misleading.

EDIT DANTESAMA: Please avoid blaming and shaming, it's counterproductive HogarHorrible, after investigation, BB concluded there was no exploit. If you wish to blame someone, then blame me, send me a private message.
As mentioned previously, I might be able to come up with more information in the near future.
Bear with me

Thx for letting me spend alot of time trying to help to get to atleast 100% but as i see it after have done 20+ its just not enough, no matter how old the german server is and how many active they have its just not a fair contest. when we cant even get to 100% with so many working so hard on g-4 to keep the adv killing running.
I think i will spend the next few day to see if im going to keep playing this game using rl money or go back to basic and do it with out spending a cent on it.
one more thing they say the active count goes 1 month back are you kidding me, the guild im in there are 24 in total 18 to 20 only log in 1 time every 7 day and dont do anything at all how can they count as active, i even made sure the guild made atleast 1 adv pr member to be sure the guild did not pull the % down.

So thx to all the helpfull players on Newfoundland sorry all youre hard work just was not enough and all the ress you donatet to keep us trying.

Regards
Jebpers not so happy about this game any more. :(

I found Dantesama's post AFTER my entry, so apologies for not spotting it earlier. I am supporting his approach to this ! It's just sad that it has taken so long for someone to "Grasp the nettle" ! and some at BB have been carelessly dismissing earlier concerns as "winges" from the losers .... this issue has been about since DAY 2 !

EDIT DANTESAMA: Noted, thanks HogarHorrible.

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Originally Posted by BB_Dantesama

Hey guys,

I did not want to sound like Captain Obvious but I'll throw in my two cents on what's going right now.

It is pretty obvious that some servers (german mainly) had an advantage due to the fact that they have a lot more higher level players (older server).

The lack of precision in numbers and the lack of infomation on the calculation process have been an issue indeed, I think this has caused confusion on your objectives for the adventure, this would also explain the conspiracy theories, the cheat rumours, trust issues...

We will provide more details next time.

So yes, the stat calculation is flawed, It's actually far from being perfect. However, NO, cheats do not exist for this contest.
I will try and provide more details on the calculation process and how cancelling a quest was DETRIMENTAL to the Contest more than anything else.
Remember, this is BB's first attempt in organising a little competition between servers. Your feedback is crucial and things will be different next time round.

I actually think this has been a positive event, (beyond the obvious faults) it has brought people together and united them. This has also giving you an idea/hint on how your server might react facing future PVP events.

I will forward any information I have as soon as I have any.

Best

BB_Dantesama

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This is all many of us ask for an open and frank explanation, it goes a long way

Thanks

To BB-Dantesama

Whilst it may have 'brought people together and united them' - do you not think it has done so in anger and frustration? This is more likely to have a detrimental impact than a positive one.

As to giving a hint as to how our server my react facing future PVP events - this is even more worrying. I don't see how a competition event that pitches servers against servers (and therefore gets lots of people to support others in G4) can be considered similar to PVP in a single server environment unless its guild against guild which says to me - 'don't bother unless you have lots of active and high level players in your guild'.

i had a look at the polish servers and it seems they were doing the same and it has booset their numbers. also, they spotted that some of the servers were loosing percents between the stats updates. maybe one of the ideas there is good though : mass complaints to the support, they might ignore 1 letter but not 1000's of them

They probably over simplified the calculations, an active player could simply be one which has production on their island, this means inactive players who have had their island visited by others would still count as active as all their buildings come alive for a set period of time after the visit, they might not have played for 6 months+ but because people check to see if they have been active recently, it causes them to damage the score for the server.

Ideally the active players counted should only be the ones who have done the adventure at least once. At the same time they should score the completions based on the players level so that low level players contribute more due to the higher difficulty for them, the score contribution per player would decrease as you get soldiers/xbows/elites/cannons.

There are lots of German servers and any new players are likely to be distributed more, they will be far less effected by new players who only stay for a couple of days before they stop playing.

a great read... i was of the understanding that the German servers could trade the adv from day one and that all the adv were passed up to higher ranking players... to be fair, that might just be hogwash, but something is certainly up when you see a 40% jump in one day on a server when other servers can't gain 5% in 3 days..

the mathematics don't make sense, unless every member of a server is completing 10 to 15 adventures a day... there must have been a shortcut regardless of denials of such IMHO, even if the coders haven't been able to realise where it all went wrong yet... sure this matter will get cleared up by BB eventually, but might take some time to do it so the blushes reduce...

it's just a game at the end of the day, but if it is indeed the End of The World, it might just be the catastrophe BB needs to put it out of it's misery..

BB_Dantesama: After reading your response to this matter, I have changed my opinion, all I wanted to see was that BB is well aware of the mistakes made in this event, I myself agree with you when you say it was your first event, I don't know of any MMO's that first event was a complete success, this one I will admit, the idea was very well done, but yes the adventure it self and a few other thinks which your aware of was a little bummer but all in all, the event was in good spirit.

I saw people in my Trade channel offer to give goods away for free, adventures where sold for 1 fish and loads of tips and guides where given freely and if that was the goal of the event, the goal was reached.

I hope to see more events in the future which all the feedback that was given taken into consideration, everyone can complain as much as they want, but BB does take our feedback into considerations, the new TO as well as the new quest system I think is a blast and im loving it.

So thanks for event, glad to see that BB is indeed out there and listening, hope to see some cool events in future,

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Originally Posted by Socont0r

the mathematics don't make sense, unless every member of a server is completing 10 to 15 adventures a day... there must have been a shortcut regardless of denials of such IMHO

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The maths do make sense without a cheat - it's all down to the high-level players. Here's a quick example to show how big a difference it could make - none of these are BB figures, just ones I've made up as an example:

Server A - 1,000 active players - 750 above level 40, 150 level 30-40, 100 below level 30.
Server B - 1,000 active players - 400 above level 40, 400 level 30-40, 200 below level 30.

Above level 40 complete 5 adventures. Level 30-40 complete 2 adventures. Below level 30 complete 0 adventures.

Server A = 750x5 + 150x2 + 100x0 = 4,050 = 405%
Server B = 400x5 + 400x2 + 200x0 = 2,800 = 280%

Massive differences in % completed can be shown simply because of the number of high-level players.

BB have still messed up - and in a way that could and should have been avoided - but the differences in servers can be explained by the experience level of the players alone.