Would like to see an option for members in a guild to choose to participate/disable their own guild quest.
Would like to see an option for members in a guild to choose to participate/disable their own guild quest.
Members do already have the option to do or not do the Guild Quest . So I would rather see 'no guild coins' given to those that do not complete their quest.
I agree Astraldimension, My main wont join a guild because I feel guilty for not doing the guild quest. It holds others back, But I would like to be able to join a guild guilt free!! The ability to join and not be counted towards the guild quest requirements would be ideal.
If they fixed that stupid waiting Guild Quest mechanism first, most GQ problems would be solved.
Atm all players having that waiting GQ will get it activated, even if they are inactivated till then.
Better make waiting GQ just a "Sneak Peak" and then all and only active players atm gets it activated.
The issue at hand is that guilds have to kick inactive players even when they are just inactive due to "computer broke" or "no ISP" for a week or two because otherwise the whole guild suffers.
While it is good that like this, active guilds also correlate with active players - it is bad that this removes the "casual" element of guild membership.
Either you do your GQ or you're hurting everyone. No casual membership, so you have to pick your guild carefully.
Even if your best friends are in a guild, you shouldn't join if you don't have the same completion rate of GQ as they have.
The issue at hand is that guilds are inherently putting pressure on players due to the very nature of the game.
So, yes, there should be a guild status like "casual member" which allows us to be excluded from GQ in each and every sense, but included in "guild friends" (island visit, trade etc.) - everyone would be free to change their guild status at any time.
Well, it's "only" 80% of the active members that can do their GQ (as it gets finished then), so no need to hunt down GQ sinners if just enough members co-operate.
It could be a lot simpler if BB just changed the manner GQ worked.
At the moment an entire guild is penalized if a few members become leachers/slackers, whereas they should really only reward those focused on participation.
Guilds kick people for failing GQ = people leave the game = Bad business model = obviously needs a rethink
The simplest way to do this would be:
One GQ per day, every day.
Whoever completes that gets their guild coins and a bonus depending on how many actually complete during the day.
This still rewards stronger, more active guilds and yet allows other guilds to exist without penalizing some players simply because a few guild members cannot complete GQ every day.
Brilliant idea :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
Nice idea tripi.
Not that brilliant idea, Tripi, but I admit it would be a lot better than it's actually now. Thou there's no "entire guild is penalized if a few members become leachers/slackers"-situation atm - ppl really need to learn the basics about GQ.
I don't think your suggestion encourage co-operation as some members would be stuck on yesterday's (or day(s) before that) GQ. Thou I still think that would be better than it's now - perhaps less ppl would be discouraged from co-operating.
SmurfAsH
As you say it would be a lot better than it is now. Why I used the words 'brilliant idea' was because there have been lots of posts about the guild quests which have been quashed very quickly and I genuinely think this is a very good idea and its about time we moved forward.
I think there would be loads of co-operation still and maybe even more. Most people work better under a bit of pressure.
And shuffle up the quests, fed up with the same 2 over and over again.
The system is obsessed with Isle of Pirates or "experience 2 new advs".
No wonder they are causing problems, and it makes starting a nice large adv almost impossible as you know it will get interrupted.
200 new quests promised, but 198 of them don't seem to have arrived.
Opt out is the only sane solution until the GQs are made much more fair.
Currently we cannot risk cancelling GQs because we may lose them altogether for up to two weeks. When they are reset every two weeks we get them back. Some guilds for some reason have cancelled with no problems at all. Others lose them.
70% of our members want to do guild quests or a least are willing for the sake of others. But we need 80% to complete them. A high proportion of our members will help others for free.
The same few quests over and over is boring. Too many have adventures in them. Or they need to be diluted with more quests that dont. But it is possible to have to do 3 Black Knights in a Row for example. Unfortunately some players shoot themselves in the foot by then pushing up the prices for guild quest adventures.
Trying to do big adventures for your own enjoyment can be hard for those with limited time to play.
The adventure Achievements are quite good fun and actually for a short time help the GQs.
Opt out could work but surely would be a nightmare for BB to calculate the percentage of people to complete, as most would probably only want to opt out now and again.
So to me Tripi's plan of a new Quest every day with bonuses is the best option . Most of the current quests we complete within 24/36 hours just the occasional one taking several days which we would gladly cancel if we didnt then lose quests altogether.
Currently the selection of guild quests varies depending on the size of your guild. For individual players, the tasks then vary depending on their level. Easier tasks for lower lv players is a good thing, but I suggest there should be a difficulty level for the overall guild quest selection as well. The guild leader could choose whether the guild pursues easy, intermediate, or advanced guild quests. Guilds that have lots of casual players could choose easier quests and would still be able to complete the quests at a relatively short time; Guilds of HC players could pick the advanced ones knowing their members are online a lot and dedicated to playing the game.
The harder types of quests would award more guild coins and would have most of the adventure quests like "complete the nords/ black knights/ any 2 adventures" etc. Easier ones would have a lower ggc yield, but would also have quicker, easier tasks that also casual players have no difficult completing: "sell/buy X resources, buff 5 buildings" etc. This way casual players have a way of participating in the quests and earning some ggc in guilds that pursue the easier quests, while active guilds who make harder efforts to clear the advanced quests are rewarded with more ggc for their work.
PS. Tripi's suggestion earlier in this thread also has my full support. I thought of this alternative way of organizing the guild quests and thought I might as well share it. I think it would still be an improvement to the current system, and possibly requires less changes in how the live game works now so BB might have an easier time applying it.
Something like this would work against guilds who are less active but want to "fully" complete one or two quests per week. Maybe need to respect different playstyles a bit more - but you could reset the guild quest every maintenance instead of every other. (That would be easier to remember too!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
The trouble with the bonus based on % completed is that it encourage guilds to miss the difficult quests - which undermines the model. In my view a key benefit of guild quests is the way that they encourage guild members to work together and help one another to get (80%) of the quests done. So I favour continuing the current model but tweaking the quests:
- No single player adventures: there is no way you can help another guildmate with these
- Reduce the frequency of the more difficult adventures
- Include co-op adventures
As for kicking people who do not complete their guild quests. I think it totally legitimate that guilds set their own parameters for the style of play and the behaviours of their members. I always make sure that my guild's approach is clear before I accept someone into the guild. I am far more likely to kick someone who repeatedly is truly active, has not completed their quest within 48hrs of it starting and has not asked for help or explained why they cannot complete it.
I think its a great suggestion and solution for the guild quests!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavona
Active or semi active or little active.. in my guild i want my members to play as they want in their own playing time within reason.
We had to make a rule to finish the gq becasue of the easy critic that can spark ("why isnt the guild quest done? why doesnt some finishing their guild quest?") ,the problem is that i cannot see gq as priority,
and also that the gq system is so poorly made as it is atm,but still i have to have the rule becasue of the sparks.
I just have to go along with it... the main problem of the gq system is this:
*do a black knight.
*do 2 adventures.
*with them above maybe some totally ignore/to heavy to make.
*(not a problem but becomes with guild quests) members play at their own pace and be away from tso for a while/days.
*(just a feeling) for some members the gq becomes the definition of a guild.
Its not and specially not with the current poorly mono designed quests.
"main problem" - I would rather say you listed some symptoms..Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
"*do a black knight." - Really? What's the problem here? What obsticle hinder lvl46+ members from getting it done?
"*do 2 adventures." - How hard is it to do DP?
"*with them above maybe some totally ignore/to heavy to make." - Seems like bad co-operation.
"*(not a problem but becomes with guild quests) members play at their own pace and be away from tso for a while/days." - this shouldn't be a problem as it's not everyone needed to do their GQ, but only 80%; thou GQ is given as waiting GQ to active players atm and will get activated later for all of those players...even though some of them had been flagged as inactive. The latter is the main problem here.
"*(just a feeling) for some members the gq becomes the definition of a guild.
Its not and specially not with the current poorly mono designed quests." - So what else is there? You really don't need to be in a guild if you just want to chat or do advs..
Also, have you compared those "2 advs-GQ"s with 'Songs of Seasons' there all members from 36 to 50 have to do 1 adv? Did you find the latter to be easily done?
http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/t...l=1#post243772
Hey smurfash,Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
For me me as a player the guild quests is managable,but i am lvl 50 and very active.
For your latter i agree its not that good..
I made this thread for a whole guild in perspective thinking of all the members in a guild,the guild quest system is really bad atm,but can be done alot better.
Thats why i wanted an option for members to choose to participate/not participate in gq for an example but there is other suggestions also that is really good.
I'm officer in a large guild and has been dealing with GQ for a year. I know the perspectives and how the GQ system is (not) working. I've seen a lot of ideas written here without being considered first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
Giving members option to participate/disable the Guild quests won't work...pretty much for the same reason GQ ain't done - too many players wouldn't pay attention to use it.
Sounds like you know how to lower others suggestions...Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
I believe in it,gives the members a choice.
Have been a guild leader over a year in large guild and i care for my members,
and i want to interfere as little as i possible how they shall play tso or not in my guild.
Yes. Who doesn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
I will most likely lower hyped but badly considered suggestions again and again.
As some already mentioned, members already have the choice to not do the GQ...and they use it. Your suggestion wouldn't solve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
Well, good for you and your fellows. That's pretty much how we're (I'm) dealing with GQ in our guild. Using "carrot" and encouraging co-operation to get GQ done within 4 days. There's a small threat of using "the stick" on "sinners" - they might be considered as inactive if they do not leave a message about absence - but no one has been kicked out because of GQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
Enough!Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
I like this idea - although perhaps one every 48 hours rather than every 24 might be good for some people. Personally, if i have to do 2 adventures I swap lootspots with someone, but I dont think everyone co-operates like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
Let me get this straight, you want guild quests but you don't want any mechanism which allows the guild to work on the quest and instead want it to be up to the individual player. May I ask what is this thing I've been doing called a daily quest if it does not fit the description above.
Basically we have 3 types of guild. 1. The do it today or your out type guild, 2 The we would be happy if you do it in a couple of days type guild. 3 Guild quest what's that, lets party on dude type guild. If a player does not match the type of guild he is in, then either the player is in the wrong sort of guild or the guild leadership is not doing their job.
What you are really asking for is for BB to lower the percentage of members who complete the guild quests. Has it not occurred to you that if that percentage is lowered then you have a smaller group of players who will be carrying the rest.
As far as I can see at the moment there is maybe one solution which may solve the whole knotty problem, different guild types. This would allow the lets get then done yesterday crowd to beaver away to their hearts content while allowing those who have a more laid back attitude to stop sweating.
The bit which appeals to me is making it so people who do the guild quest get rewarded when the whole quest is completed, but those who didnt contribute, dont. Perhaps this reveals some hidden mean-spiritedness I wasnt aware I had though.. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotheus
A while back I made this suggestion that I think would make guild quest more interesting to "not so active" guilds.
Have another suggestion that could be good ,let guild leader/officers to choose to claim the guild quest when its been reach for an example 25/50/75 % of the needed members,
the members percentage completed for an example at 50% will be 50% reduction of guild coins from as it was 100% completed + some more % penalty..
Gives less guild coins with reduction if chosen with penalty, but the gq can be done more easier without hickups..
(and this gives guild coins to all in guild)
...
I guess you didn't understand what I wrote... I will put it again and expand on the salient points just for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
One GQ per day, every day.
Whoever completes that gets their guild coins and a bonus depending on how many actually complete during the day.
The main part is 'actually complete during the day' as in the quest only exists from 02:00 am WEST on one day until 02:00 WEST on the next.
You obviously confused yourself by thinking that people could keep older quests past the expiry moment which is not what the suggestion says at all.
Looks like everyone else who read what I wrote understood it first time...
Ok. So your suggestion is to reduce GQ to be a simple one-day quest.. Soooo interesting.. I would love to do them..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
Ok. I'll try to be nice here now.. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraldimension
If BB would make it possible to delete waiting GQ from Quest book and the meta-quest would update properly when getting activated, then it would be better than it is now...thou I would still think the waiting GQ mechanism ain't good because there would still be too many (semi-)inactive/careless members not using that option.
I don't think an option to actually disable an already active GQ would be that easily done and wouldn't impact server capacity/usage in a good way....also there would still be to many (semi-)inactive/careless members not using that option.
It would allow a number of long term players to re-join a guild again without holding others back, Players like myself, Sounds like a win to me. Isn't the whole guild concept pushing tso to be more social? Then why have a guild quest designed to counter act that and push people out of guilds because of poor quest design.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
Isn't it about co-operate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brayarg
Such change wouldn't benefit that.
Sure it would, the only difference is a time limit :) People who can participate do, others sit on the side line, but it reduces tension and the bad feeling of same old people being carried. There are many ways to skin a cat, I don't really care to much how its changed, But it really does need changing, Because the way the guild quest is at the moment, destroys everything guilds set out to deliver and that's a real shame.
Whether the GQ has a one day time limit or 14 day, it is still the same quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
Anyway, for people like you there is always the option to simply not do them.
If you choose not to do them you just get no rewards.
As some has already mentioned, not all guilds are aiming to get the GQ done in one single day. I doubt NO large and functional working guild are aiming for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
LOL For people like you, there will allways be a search for new ideas to steal and an urge for a "I.win"-button..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripi
I agree, there need to be a change, but reducing GQ to be a simple one-day quest would make it worse - people struggling today would then stop bother about GQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brayarg
Now you are questioning what i suggested in first place?? again..Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfAsH
You have a good point with the waiting guild quest,stick with that.. but the thing with the server, leave that to BB... this is game suggestion! man you are not that intelligent or smart.
You must be taking the grand prize as game suggestion consideration nerd! (take it as humour)
Currently Guilds have the option to cancel their GQ via Leader but when they do they may lose guild quests altogether until currently the next reset. This is considerably better than previously when some Guilds lost them completely. For some reason BB have not been able to fully correct this yet.
Tripi's idea means we no longer need to cancel them at all. Only members that logged on in last 24 hours will get them - again much easier to maintain.
All guild's are different with different issues. Our Guild is 100 members lots of different time zones involved and some work long hours without access to the game and some are online all the time. We have often completed the quests within 24 hours but when we get stuck on a quest it can take us a week because too many allocated the quest are too busy, or are away since it was allocated etc. There is one quest that causes the problem but we get it very regularly and can even get it again 24/48 hours of it ending
When we have the chance to complete a quest speedily then the co-operation is huge amongst the members, guild chat increases, together with generosity, we are motivated. A quest that wont complete quickly and beyond our control, i.e. however hard we all try it wont complete because a few are on holiday with it 'open', after the first 24 hours causes frustration and demotivates. We are in limbo till the next.
Some guilds are lucky and because of the mix of their members dont find this such a problem and their members should be a little bit more understanding that others do and it is not through a lack of expertise, co-operation etc. The threads raised to discuss Guild Quests are quashed very quickly by the dogmatic attitude of just a couple of players.
Thank you Astraldmension for bringing this issue up and for your's and Tripi's ideas.I really hope BB are listening.
Just to add asking for a 24 hour GQ does not imply it has to be simple to do does it?