i´ve done the pirates adventure 7 times now, and still no granite. the chance of that happening is less than 1%. getting REALLY frustrated now....
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i´ve done the pirates adventure 7 times now, and still no granite. the chance of that happening is less than 1%. getting REALLY frustrated now....
Done pirates twice and still no luck was going to try it a third time only to discover that a couple of players (Stariqkech, Buntuu) have bought up at least 5 of the pirate maps and and selling them at inflated prices. While simultaneously offering to buy any pirate maps for slightly below the inflated prices that they are asking to ensure they maintain a monopoly. Must admit it's a smart plan, now while I was enjoying doing this quest I'm not paying these players it would suck the fun out of it for me.
So I'll keep an eye out for a couple of days but I think I'm done with this, on the plus side I learned a few things playing this.
Thanks for the quest was fun.
I need someone to help me do Dark Priests adventure so i can complete four winds quest. Any takers?
So nodody is doing surprise attack anymore? I'm surprised that I got too late, even when the event lasts a week still..:( Last mission to win granite, but there are no lootspot swappers..
persistence in global 3 will eventually pay off
I've done the pirates adventure 3 times and still no granites!!!!!!!!!! This is a [ Censored ] quest and i hate this game now! I haven't more pirates adventure and more money to buy another. This is very aggravating thing and i'm getting frustrated!!!
Lol, after many sweaty hours of anxiety I finally got the event done and lootspot swapped.. I'm not sure if I want to do another event like this very soon..phew..
I dont think I will ever do another event like this again... it is [ Censored ] ... I am all the way at the end. I never found the Old Friends adventure, even with 2 explorers looking every day. I had to buy it 3 times from market, not to mention the loss of resources in battle. CANT SEEM TO GET GRANITE. Seems like a [ Censored ] thing to do!
Please be careful how you express yourself,
peck_ed
I guess nobody told you that `old friends' comes as a bonus adventure occasionally in loot from `witch of the swamp' then? You need luck to be on your side with that as well as for the granite, I had to do eight WotS.
No I was not aware of that. However, it says 61% chance of receiving granite. I am not a mathematician but to me that seems like a 2 out of 3 chance. Hmmm 8 times does not seem like very good odds.
So, any ideas how that granite chance work? If it were ~50% chance adventure guides talk about, i can't imagine how so many people can fail it 5(3% chance), 8(0.4% chance), 10(0.1% chance) times in row. There must be some code:
If(onquest) Then realchance=listedchance/Select(TryCount,1:100,2:50,3:10,4:5,.....,10:1)
As a lvl 50 player i felt this is a total waste of time.
All you have to do is read what BlueFairy put on page 2 and that is exactly what i felt about it, why should i bother to build a DS maker?
Another poorly thought out Event.
Mother that is my point, how is it mathematically possible? http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/t...hlight=friends the middle of this first page there is the list of what you need and what is the % of receiving things.
In my case and I quote ....
10. Pay 3000 meat, get 400 granite loot from Old Friends (61% chance).
PFTTT! I think either they need to up these % so that "certain" players dont have to do the same adventure 4,5,6,7 times :( when the odds should be almost 2 out of 3 you get it :(
Peck_ ed sorry for my 2 letter expression but this is really frustrating, on a time frame and down to the wire on the last thing I need to do. Just wasting resources doing the same thing, not to get the prize.
I feel wronged but I am so far in on loss of resources that I feel like I just have to keep trying. It would be like running a marathon and seeing the finish line just to up and quit.
well here I go again on Old friends, maybe just maybe there will be an end to my agony!
I know the feeling. Finnished 10 Surprised Attacks now without any granite.
This quest is a joke. I won't even start it or do it. I don't like it. Don't waste your time at the end you will lose much more than you can win... make a simple calculation and you will see that the reward is like 1/5 of this you spend at ressource and time.Quote:
Originally Posted by franciscraven
look at the poll results- obviously more agree than disagree- so pick and chose if u want to participate or not- it isnt mandatory and for each the cost vs benefit equation is different.
Simply put- gem rewards are pretty priceless as items like licenses can only be bought with gems- and saving em from quest lines and weekly rewards is very slow. That leaves buying gems or getting em from these special events on forums and in game
Scarcity in sourcing means high relative value and with no real means to trade gem vouchers in game these are pretty much all the game in town for the non money spenders/low money spenders
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you are max or close to max building licences and have a few nice generals and such hanging around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stariqkech
Yeah it's 11 weeks worth of gems all at once and having 10 extra buildings 11 weeks sooner how much is that worth? Having a go at this quest is worth it for non/low spenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualan
Just "gems" and "having" are purely virtual - you simply don't get them. 5th granite fail atm, and reading forum I know it will take at least 3-5 more. This obviously have nothing to do with "luck" - just greedy algorithm. I think its something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by franciscraven
If(spent_gems_during_event OR more_than_8_tries) Then basechance Else basechance/100
Actually I dont even want these gems, I like playing in conditions when strategical planing of limited resources (buildings) count, just this grind algorithm kill all fun.
Going to try Salem
I have come to voice my disapproval in regards to the random granite element of this quest. If it had no time limit I would not be as annoyed but being a player that has bought 4 bandit nest for 1500+ gc I am at a loss of why it would be engineered in such a manner as having a chance never to be able to complete it...
I'm from the .net servers (forum) in the US.
I came to post my feedback. Four Winds Quest is a terribly designed event because it has a time limit. If it didn't have a time limit, it wouldnt be as bad.
What really bothers me is that people are confusing "challenge" with "luck". These quests are LUCK based. There is no planning involved no skill involved when it comes to getting stones/marbles/granite from searches. And definitely luck when it comes to getting granite from adventures. Specifically the 33% chance granite and the double luck factor of getting old friends AND granite.
Four Winds - Various Quest Chains Evaluation
Level 16-25 - This quest requires no adventures. And is the most easiest to do for 500 gems. And 4 noble houses.
(in fact any player could probably 'reroll' a new character and get this done if they just wanted 4 noble houses.)
Not to mention the amount of gems you get from rerolling You could in fact gift yourself the silo or watermill almost in theory if you loggin for a week.
Level 26-35 - This quest line sucks because of the granite requirements of repeating island of pirates (which has a really bad return on the resources spent to finish it.) BUT its not terribly bad with dark priest since its a 2 player questline that you can share with another player and piggy back off their quest completion without wasting your own troops to finish the zone (if you're low on troops and don't need xp).
Level 36-45 - This questline is the WORST of all of the different levels. Why? Bandits Nest is very hard to get from adventure if its even acquireable from adventures. Cost too much in map fragments. Has a poor return. Chance of getting granite is 33%. Can NOT be done with 2 players. And on top of that the last chain getting granite from "old friends" which can only be obtained as a "drop" from Witch of the Swamp. This means you have to 3 different adventures for this questline minimum. And if you're very unlucky, the old friends may not drop. And if it does, and you don't get granite it. You have to do witch of the swamp again. and then old friends again. Witch of the Swamp is a 1 player map, same as old friends. You can not share the resource load/burden with anybody else.
Level 46-50 - This questline is not terribly bad as it has 2 adventures that are shareable with 2-3 friends. And the reward for doing them is not terribly bad. But its jsut as frustrating as the previous as it requires granite.
You guys really really need to fix your game design. Possibly give players a choice to which quest chain they'd prefer. Maybe allow players to choose a quest chain to do once. It's unfair to have 4 quest chains that I'm forced into the hardest one when I never got a chance to do the easiest one because I passed that level already before you introduced these quest lines.
I think that we should be allowed to do the first 'tier' of quest chain if its our first time doing it. And then the second tier etc... later. etc.
For example, there are a lot of quests for new players right now that give great decoration rewards. But this was introduced way after I had surpassed that level and now I can't get those decoration rewards unless I start over and make a new account. We should be allowed to do quests even easy ones that were introduced later.
Developers: How to Fix BAD LUCK in Quests
You guys need to program in a 'fail safe' for the worst case scenario of Bad Luck. These Quests that require "X" granite for adventures is an example of really bad design.
Some people might get it in their first shot. But some people might never get it at all if they keep getting strings of bad luck. Especially the ones where granite is 33% chance instead of 50% chance.
Failing the first time is okay. Failing the second time starts becoming frustrating. Failing the third time is demoralizing. After that it becomes rage quit territory. Since its theortically possibly to never get granite at all with strings of bad luck.
I would fix this the require of the quest says get X granite in 1 adventure or Y exotic wood in 3 adventures.
Or generically "X" granite OR "Y" exotic wood. Where the X value is the minimum value you can get from adventures. and the Y value is the minimum cummulative total of 3 adventures of exotic wood combined.
At least this will ensure players to get the quest done in a timely fashion.
Also- I prefer Silos as a reward over Watermill, as watermills are easily obtainable from easter event. Last year there was an unlimited purchase of watermills, and the egg requirements are cheap enough that you can get it from trade. Silos are very hard to get and its limited quantity during halloween.
Getting Water from trade is cheap too. Getting Wheat is not. I don't even know why Watermill cost so much in gems. Watermills have been given freely as rewards in the past during Xmas event and other events. Silos not so much.
I hate to say this but the designers are so out of touch with the game mechanics.
Actually, offering watermills over silos was presumably a decision made for financial reasons which BB would have plenty of knowlegde of: lots of people buying silos, but nobody buying watermills? Might as well give watermills away as a prize for an event. Simple and perfect business decision
Because, let's be honest, the only guiding principle is pushing people into buying gems to buy the buildings they actually need.
When I say I prefer silos over watermills is because they're offering silos to the people in the 26-35 bracket. 36-45 got the watermills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerontius
So that's why I am saying its quite unfair that the lower level folks are getting the silos.
Currently running my THIRTEENTH Witch of the Swamp in a feeble attempt to get Old Friends... 23% chance, my goodness!
If the quest chain demanded me to complete WotS and Old Friends ONCE each, I would have been finished ten times over.
But like this?
The current TO prices for Friends are ludicrous, but my luck in (not) obtaining one is even more so!
BB, this quest is simply broken due to the element of luck.
How can it be other players do EXACT the same thing I do ONCE and complete the quest, and I have to do it 12 times and STILL NOT completed?
Next time BB does a quest series, they may as well make stuff like "Obtain a Flowered Stone from Horseback" - some people will get it in a day (lootspotting) and others will not get it in 10 years.
Or they could just make a quest where once a day, you roll a 100-sided dice: if it lands on 1, you beat the quest.
Is this good design?
Overall as a player I have enjoyed trying to complete this crisis quest. However as a player I also got frustrated about the randomness and luck involved.
As a player I do have a viable way to do this kind of thing in the future that may appeal to all, but then again it may not.
I think a fairer way to do it would be to experience one discoverable adventure with under x number of losses, 1 premium adventure like Bandits Nest and then a discoverable multiplayer adventure for a luck drop resource.
Yes I know some will be outraged at the prospect of the luck/randomness but if they are multiplayer adventures that are discoverable then it gives 2 bites of the cherry at each adventure for those who have friends at the same level or even in a guild.
You are totally wrong in suggesting that even a multiplayer luck element would be acceptable. It's utterly outrageous on a time-limited event in any form.
I can't say I'm outraged by MOD_Gytha_Ogg's suggestion but I do think taking a group of players, offering them all the same thing and then having them roll dice again and again to see who gets it for a cost of 1,000 resources and who must pay 10,000 or more (for example) if they manage to get it at all due to time restrictions is not in the spirit of the game I've been playing.
That neither the size of the gamble nor the time limits were made clear at the outset of this Event is just ridiculous but even if they had been and an Official List of all the Quests and accurate, confirmed droprates made players able to make informed decisions about the 'lottery' it still wouldn't feel particularly TSO. "Coins in the Street" and certain other Quests rely on luck but they have no end date and will be completed if one just bashes away at them long enough, the introduction of potentially impossible tasks in any form is something I also find entirely unacceptable.
I agree. It's fine to do adventure once, twice, or even 10 times if you like, but at least I need to let my economy rest for a moment in between. And now I'm doing adventure for a third time without really restoring my island, because I don't have time for this. And given the number of resources and troops I'm loosing, I really think that this may be my last attempt. And I'm really sorry, because I don't have any super-general (which makes doing adventures over and over again even more irritating), I wish to collect gems for one and would really appreciate 500 of them.
So, I finished Bandit Nest adventure. Lost almost whole my army. And guess what? Yeah, I didn't get needed amount of granite. It means I can't finish the Four Winds quest at all. Thank you.
Next time, feel free to base the chain quest on probability again. It's really uberfunny.
</sarcasm>
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonPope
Hey, welcome :)
We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.
This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.
So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy :(
Third BN and no granite. I can't afford another go, not to mention I have no chance of finishing on time. So I cancel this quest and feel quite bad. Funny, that everyone who is fine with the chain seems to have been lucky enough to get resources required at 1-2nd time they tried... lucky you.
Had to do 9 old friends. Beat that ;)
As it says, I have 61% chance to get granite doing it first time. Honestly I don't believe anyone who is is going to say that it was bad luck.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up, it is bad game design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizkeyjack
I am in the 36-45 bracket and I have give up trying to complete this quest line. In truth, I wish I had listened to others and not even bothered trying to complete it.
You are right, they can't make everyone happy. However, they could implement a design philosophy that doesn't include luck.
Random rewards are fine as a loot reward, but it's not okay to then have quests that require you receive one of those random rewards, especially when the adventures that you are asked to complete are so expensive.
Many players who weren't lucky enough to get what was required have been left frustrated by these quests. They may not be a requirement of the game, but they are an important part of it because they give players something to do and thus add to the longevity of the game.
I do not mind a quest line that is difficult, but it should be difficult in a non random way. Once a player has completed a task, that should be it, move on to the next quest. It should not require a task to be completed and then RNG decides if the player can move on or not.
I have seen many players reporting it took them several loot spots before they got the required reward. At least you have that option. Many people don't.
Congratulations those of you who have managed to complete this chain.
BB admitted EotW wasn't what they'd intended. So, actually they don't know what they're doing... stop trying to defend the indefensibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Whizkeyjack
I agree with the bad design, Im stuck on the dark priests after 5 attempts still no granite :( and from what i can see the odds should be 50%. i'll give it one more go then cut my losses and time and spend my efforts on another game.
I deleted my Four Winds Quest and immediately felt much better. I don't mind working for achievable challenges, but adding luck in is irritating.
I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.
All of what you say is fine, except for one thing - all of what you liked could have been achieved without the luck element. Good design would have achieved the fresh challenges, but using a critical path that did not involve luck. Having rewards based on luck is fine, having progress in a quest's critical path based on luck is not fine. There really isn't any question about this - any professional developer knows that critical path progress based on luck is bad design. The quest may be a sub-element within the game, but it still has a clear critical path to follow to complete it. If you think we're wrong in calling it bad design, then please show me any examples of good games where progress through the game's critical path is based on luck? I think you will struggle to find any, I really do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggis