Are you ready for a game breaker ? Well here it comes.

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Originally Posted by Suzalilli

I'm sick of these 'fixes' for non-existent issues. I've never had a problem with a trade not adding the requested resource to my storage and I think people who require this feature (to physically see it being added) are just OCD.

How about BB spend some time fixing actual issues, and in such a way that doesn't break issues that have already been fixed!

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I’ve never had a problem with flooding as I live on hill. Therefore I think we shouldn’t have sandbags and expensive barriers put in place to protect the lowlands.

Just because you haven’t had a problem does not mean the issue is non-existent. You’re lucky if you’ve never had cause to think the trade history and system hasn’t got a few hiccups. Either that or you don’t constantly trade all day.

I don’t require seeing it come in. I’d much prefer to just have a working system I trust in the first place. But when the game is rifled with bugs I like to feel in control and know I’m not falling foul of a bug when I let automated systems do stuff for me and am limited in tracking changes in my stock after the fact. I’d much prefer it to all be automated just so long as I could easily track what’s happened to it all as well.

But that all said I do agree BB need to focus more on fixing and developing the bigger issues then messing around with what we already have or implementing things that aren’t as much an issue. But that’s not to say all other issues should just therefore be completely ignored or dismissed. I would much prefer PvP then this but at this stage I’ll take anything I find helpful no matter how small or ultimately flawed the system design is. Though not in this case since in its current form this change will mess around with too many other players’ trade scheduling for the worse.

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Originally Posted by Dopey

The other thing I like about it which I do consider to be a massive advantage is that it then gives me unlimited storage. I can keep loads of resources queued up in my mail box without it interfering with my supply limit. I’m pretty sure there is no time limit on mail so this system would let me keep unlimited resources indefinitely. And if there is a limit and the mail does get erased after a set time, it still is useful to temporarily have unlimited storage.

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explain to the 1000's of level 50's that had the same idea to get told they are going to get the emails deleted and ony emails 2 weeks old can be keeped.Blue byte wont let you use the mail system as storage.Every one use there star menu at the moment how much longer do you think that will last.

To me this just seems like one of those ideas that are great on paper and really, really dumb in reality (I do hope that dumb is an acceptable word as I cannot come up with anything more polite).

There is plenty of time wasting, micro-management features in this game already (rebuilding of fields and wells, deleting buff notification - I do understand the latter not being an issue for some, when I swap a 100 baskets, I find it tedious to delete the pesky notifications).

I do see that there are some that like the idea of this feature, however it seems many more do not. I think the idea is utter rubbish and the thought of it makes me grumpy:(

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Originally Posted by Dopey

I personally kind of like this change. I don’t trust the history to be accurate nor do I completely trust that when I trade things, go offline and come back that they have actually been added to my supplies. Coming online and being able to accept and watch/check my traded resources are added properly is very helpful. Yes I would much prefer a way that reflects this information without getting spammed with mail but I prefer this then nothing.

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I don't entirely trust the trade system, I've had to file two support tickets about resource that have gone missing but these didn't appear in the history pane on the trade office. I know this happened because they were stacks of about 40k and when you lose that much resource and see no difference in gold/granite it's pretty obvious something has gone wrong... It hasn't happened for a month or so.

If the argument is that this is going to be helpful in tracking trades are working correctly then we must assume that you and everyone else who thinks that this is a good idea because of traceability are going to check your storage levels, accept a mail and then check your storage levels again to see if they have updated correctly. In reality though you aren't going to do that with every single mail and even if you do then countless other players will not, myself included. I monitor the current system and I already know when it has gone wrong, I know how to work around the quirky history by monitoring my storage levels, refreshing my browser, clearing cache and waiting that little bit longer for it to catch up and when I see a problem that I know exists I report it.

Let's say that you list 4 lots of 1000 bronze for 25gc each. In this instance you are going to see your gold increment when you accept each mail or you are going to notice an issue where your gold doesn't increment and then refresh your browser, check your trade history and try to figure out where that bronze and gold just went. But what about when you list 4 lots of 1000 iron for 400 bread, 4 lots of 1000 coal for 1500 fish, 4 lots of 2500 copper ore for 2000 bronze swords, 4 lots of 1000 wheat for 4250 water and you do all that in one go ? Those are all resources that aren't visible on the main screen so you're going to have to go in to your stores, check your levels, go in to your mail, accept the relevant mails, go back to your storage and check they have raised by the correct amount and do that for each batch... Does that sound appealing ? Doesn't to me. Or you could get a pencil and write down the storage levels for all batches, accept them all and then check your stores. Still doesn't sound appealing to me.

I put it to you that if the trade system is so bugged that this kind of change from the developers and monitoring of storage from players is required then instead of putting this in to the live server it should be optionally available on the test server using a switch to enable/disable it and we should be thrashing the trade system on there because it is bugged... I would be far happier to do that a few nights a week working with the support/developer teams with no promise of a reward at all than see this hit the live server.

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Originally Posted by Dopey

The other thing I like about it which I do consider to be a massive advantage is that it then gives me unlimited storage. I can keep loads of resources queued up in my mail box without it interfering with my supply limit. I’m pretty sure there is no time limit on mail so this system would let me keep unlimited resources indefinitely. And if there is a limit and the mail does get erased after a set time, it still is useful to temporarily have unlimited storage.

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I've got about 80k storage and I've spent hardwood planks, marble, gold, exotic planks and granite to get it there, I'm going to have about 120k by the start of the Easter event by sinking more. If you're suggesting that this is going to be good because it allows you and other players to circumvent the storage cap then this is an exploit, plain and simple. You're circumventing the cap on storage that is governed by deeds sunk in to storehouses and the levels that cost hardwood planks, marble, gold, exotic wood and granite.

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Originally Posted by Dopey

But I can see how not collecting trades automatically would be a massive pain for those that have come to rely on it. So I would suggest for the best of both worlds a tick box in the mail window that has the title of ‘auto collect trade mail’. Thus when ticked all mail from the trade system is auto collected just like it is now. In replacement of the mail containing the goods perhaps the mail could even then be changed to state what resources were contained in the mail and informing the player it has automatically been placed in there storage. Additionally a separate tick box could also be added to completely delete the mail at the same time so no spam occurs for those that would like that too.

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I'm going to refer back to my first point and make one more.

If you're suggesting that they should add options to (a) accept automatically and (b) delete mails automatically then what you are suggesting is that they add in an option to make the current change irrelevant. So far you're the only person that likes this idea and one of the reasons you like it is a bit dubious... If it's the case that 99% of the population hate the idea, the 1% that do like it because of the fact it circumvents the storage cap and the devs add a feature to make the trade office work like it does now then 99% of the players are going to make the trade office work like it does now and 1% wont so they can use it as an exploit and, of course, check that the feature is working as intended.

I've been a software developer for about fifteen years now and if you have to add an option to disable a feature you have created because almost everyone who has used it likes it the way it used to be then you're not a good software developer... Plain and simple.

if it goes through im going to ignore trade office as much as possible

First of all let me just make it clear that I do not want this change. I just happen to like it as it suits me if it were to go through, that’s all I was really saying. I’ve already said though that I agree it’s horrible for other players and so therefore shouldn’t get implemented.

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Originally Posted by Lazy_Fruitbat

explain to the 1000's of level 50's that had the same idea to get told they are going to get the emails deleted and ony emails 2 weeks old can be keeped.Blue byte wont let you use the mail system as storage.Every one use there star menu at the moment how much longer do you think that will last.

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I’m sort of counting on that and is part of why I said it in the hopes of changing BB’s mind when they realize it allows benefits in areas they might not have foreseen yet. I was also just trying to look on the bright side in case it unfortunately does get implemented. Perhaps instead of queuing up multiple slots to be traded and relying on them coming in while away the players that do this can reverse it and use the new accept system to their advantage. When their online they setup trades for say 10000 coal when they still have 20000 in there warehouse. They then go offline. When they come back online again they might only have 2000 coal left but now have 40k waiting in their mail box. They accept enough to get them back to 20000, put up more trades and so when they log on again there back down to 2000 coal and have 70k waiting in the mail. This gives them instant access to their needed resources instead of having to rely on the trade’s definitely selling while there away. They would have a buffer of mail resources waiting to instantly be used rather than a slow trickling deficit counting on trade sales to happen.

I say this though in the hopes BB realize this would be worse than just leaving things as they currently are and stopping this change happening.

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Originally Posted by Splotch

If the argument is that this is going to be helpful in tracking trades are working correctly then we must assume that you and everyone else who thinks that this is a good idea because of traceability are going to check your storage levels, accept a mail and then check your storage levels again to see if they have updated correctly. In reality though you aren't going to do that with every single mail and even if you do then countless other players will not, myself included. I monitor the current system and I already know when it has gone wrong, I know how to work around the quirky history by monitoring my storage levels, refreshing my browser, clearing cache and waiting that little bit longer for it to catch up and when I see a problem that I know exists I report it.

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In regards to checking resources, for me what I would like about this system if implemented is I could log on and see I have 4 sales of 5000 coal. I could then check to see I have 37415 coal in my storage, click accept and see it go up to 57415 once I've accepted them all. Under the current system I come online and have no idea what I had before each sale in order to compare to what I have now and if the resource numbers are accurate. But please understand I didn’t ask for this, really want it or care that much about it. I was just saying that for me at least it won’t be a complete pile of brown stuff if it was to get implemented.

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Originally Posted by Splotch

Let's say that you list 4 lots of 1000 bronze for 25gc each. In this instance you are going to see your gold increment when you accept each mail or you are going to notice an issue where your gold doesn't increment and then refresh your browser, check your trade history and try to figure out where that bronze and gold just went. But what about when you list 4 lots of 1000 iron for 400 bread, 4 lots of 1000 coal for 1500 fish, 4 lots of 2500 copper ore for 2000 bronze swords, 4 lots of 1000 wheat for 4250 water and you do all that in one go ? Those are all resources that aren't visible on the main screen so you're going to have to go in to your stores, check your levels, go in to your mail, accept the relevant mails, go back to your storage and check they have raised by the correct amount and do that for each batch... Does that sound appealing ? Doesn't to me. Or you could get a pencil and write down the storage levels for all batches, accept them all and then check your stores. Still doesn't sound appealing to me.

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Originally Posted by Dopey

I would much prefer a way that reflects this information without getting spammed with mail but I prefer this then nothing.

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Bread, Coal, Fish, Copper ore, bronze swords, water. I would check there current number since there the resources I’m getting, then just mass click on accept. When done check the number i have now against the number it was. If it looks about right i'd be happy. I'm not saying this is a perfect system. It's pretty naff but if BB give it I'd have a little cause for celebration which i guess I'm so starved of not doing I'm willing to settle for anything i find useful at this point of playing the game for so long.

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Originally Posted by Splotch

I put it to you that if the trade system is so bugged that this kind of change from the developers and monitoring of storage from players is required then instead of putting this in to the live server it should be optionally available on the test server using a switch to enable/disable it and we should be thrashing the trade system on there because it is bugged... I would be far happier to do that a few nights a week working with the support/developer teams with no promise of a reward at all than see this hit the live server.

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You seem to be mixing me up with a BB representative. I’d love more bug checking to be done with the developers and players working together in tandem, not one side screaming at the other side ignoring them.

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Originally Posted by Splotch

If you're suggesting that they should add options to (a) accept automatically and (b) delete mails automatically then what you are suggesting is that they add in an option to make the current change irrelevant. So far you're the only person that likes this idea and one of the reasons you like it is a bit dubious... If it's the case that 99% of the population hate the idea, the 1% that do like it because of the fact it circumvents the storage cap and the devs add a feature to make the trade office work like it does now then 99% of the players are going to make the trade office work like it does now and 1% wont so they can use it as an exploit and, of course, check that the feature is working as intended

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My suggestion about the tick boxes was in response to the players that had already posted before me at the time and BB claiming many players wanted it. I was just trying to offer an idea that would be useful to both. So yes my idea was to make the changes irrelevant, I fail to see how this wouldn’t be a good thing as for those that don’t want this change they would be getting what they want…no change. And for those BB claim prompted this change they could have the option to keep it as well, everyone’s a winner. I did already say and agreed that I wish BB would stop mucking around on the less relevant and not in particularly needed fixes. But as I also said I don’t believe that means we don't try and influence what they are doing for the better for all concerned. I also believe there is a fine line between creative advantage and exploit. Blocks on Adventures spring to mind and many players use them. They were never meant to be part of the game yet they are. Similarly it could be argued so is using the mailing system a creative advantage. It isn't meant to be used like that but if this new system went through could be.

Or to put it hopefully in a clearer way: Why does one athlete who took something to help there performance and fail a certain test get banned yet an athlete who had a cup of coffee to help keep them going doesn't? Where does the line merge between the 2? But in many ways that seems to be a completely different issue to what we're arguing about which I'm still wondering why we actually are. I agreed it was a terrible change from the start :) Its not like I'm saying this is a great idea and should be implemented! I was just commenting i could see some slight improvement for me while agreeing it was over all a very bad system.

Somehow this turned into us arguing over something we actually agree on which I have already said. I’m not advocating this change and have already said so. I was just trying to be a little positive for a change and suggesting how it might be to our advantage, so much so in fact to ensure BB don’t implement it. I never said ‘me and all my friends and everyone I have spoken to agree…’. I made it very clear that for me personally i could see the sunshine on this one through the pouring down brown rain. In no way was i trying to say this was a perfect thing to implement or something I've spammed the dev's email accounts begging them to do which some of these replies imply is in fact the case.

Most important line in the previous post IMO

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Originally Posted by Dopey

not one side screaming at the other side ignoring them.

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This is the way BB makes me feel. 'Fixing' for the 1%.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/workflow.png

"There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN."

(http://xkcd.com/1172/)

This idea does sound awful and defeats the whole instance access attraction of trade office.

There are two sorts of trades i make

1. regular trades i do every day
2. uncommon trades to fix a shortfall/get enough to start an upgrade

If i now have to wait for another mail check so i won't get my goods instantly then it totally removes the point of option 2 as i still would not be able to start my upgrade/fix a shortfall as i'd have to wait for someone else to come along.

This idea sounds very much like the new "no trade for 24 hour" which so far has proven to be an inconvience to everybody and a help to none (newbies get conned a day later now is all).

I can't see to much of a problem for me with this. I was surprised when I saw it on the test server, but surely clicking a few emails isn't really a problem. If I miss a transaction at least I can see the email so I know someone accepted the offer. You still have to click on the trade office to see if any offers have been accepted anyway. it's just a few clicks, I can't see the problem. But yes, there are other things which would be better implemented.