guild quests - lost for words

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Originally Posted by lordloocan

23/1 Make a codex. 1/2 Make a codex. So in 8 days players have to make 10 manuscripts in order to make 2 tomes (Minimum) in order to be ready to make another codex?

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already decided when this quest pops up I'm just not doing it. its freed me up to carry on skilling my specialists which is more of a priority for me and I really don't think I can manage it even when buffed on my lvl4 bookbinder. I haven't bothered with lvl5 because I can still only make 1 script per day due to not wanting to be playing settlers 16 hours per day. The 24 hour buff looks ok, but I cant make proper use of it unless I log on 14-18 hours after applying the buff to line up a 2nd script.

If we had a queue the quest would be more do-able and the 24 hour buff worthwhile.

bb has made some good changes (in my opinion) but they have a cascade affect that needs addressing, coal for weps, queue for bookbinder, etc.

The new system is great.
The new quests suck big time.

1) It is often physically impossible to produce X of an item in the time required even if the building is fully buffed because of the alignment between your log on time and the time period of the quest. eg if I log on and there are only 6 hours left before the guild timer runs down I cant make the X items in that time. Physical limits mean I need at least 10 hours to do so.

2) It is often physically impossible to construct an item in the time required. This is because the building is already in use. I can for example produce a Tomb if my Bookbinder is already in use.

3) It is often financially not viable to do the quest. eg produce X resource which uses Y resource. If you dont have any Y you have to go buy some off trader and this can either not be available or be ridiculously expensive.

The problem with all of these situations is that the Player is willing but the system is not.
This leads to frustration and resentment and does the opposite of what a guild quest should do, which is to bring players together.

All you need to do is adjust the limits of the quests.
Instead of "produce a tomb in the book binder" it should be "produce any item in the book binder"
Instead of "produce 400 X" it should be "produce 40X"
Instead of "do this adventure" it should be "do any adventure"

Why do this?

Start by asking what is the goal of the guild quest system?
Is it to have something difficult \ costly that only 25% of players will achieve, or is it to promote a feeling of community and working together amongst the players?

If you feel that quests need to be made more difficult then by all means do so with the Daily Quests.

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Originally Posted by Bigbelly

Instead of "produce a tomb in the book binder" it should be "produce any item in the book binder"

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Can't be done, unless I log on before work and again before bed or stay online for 12 hours. It's a stupid quest!

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Originally Posted by Bigbelly

If you feel that quests need to be made more difficult then by all means do so with the Daily Quests.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Bigbelly

The new system is great.
The new quests suck big time.

If you feel that quests need to be made more difficult then by all means do so with the Daily Quests.

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+1

today I have to make 1k int paper. all I need is a lvl6 mill with a x4 buff and 12 hours! seems all the science related quests are just dumb!

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Originally Posted by vigabrand

today I have to make 1k int paper. all I need is a lvl6 mill with a x4 buff and 12 hours! seems all the science related quests are just dumb!

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Some of the quests reflect a vision of how BB think you should be playing the game, another that annoyed me is the move a hunter, I have 46 deerstalkers why would I need a hunter, secondly why would I want to move it if I did.

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Originally Posted by Bigbelly

If you feel that quests need to be made more difficult then by all means do so with the Daily Quests.

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I can see it now, complete VLT in less than 6 hours losing less than 50R and 50B. Reward 50 granite and 145 Pinewood logs.

Honestly, these gqs are getting ridiculous. Today I have to pay 25 crossbows. 1. - I don't have any crossbows. 2. - If I did have any crossbows I wouldn't pay them for, say, 125 gcs.

Come on BB, please make these gqs achievable and worthwhile.

125 guildcoins are worth about 10x 25 crossbows? looks worthwhile to me.

125 is a bit optimistic- we can get from 50- 90. There are several other quests about this,- so maybe post there instead of a new tread.
Mine is pay 50 cannons today, not going to do that either.

You got to love complete VLT on a work day:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by KC-Grim

You got to love complete VLT on a work day:rolleyes:

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That love died yesterday to us
:p ::beans:: & ::guild::::coins:: :rolleyes:

Shocking.
Nobody will trade my 12 Guild Coins for the 50 Cannons that BB expect me to trash for 12ggc reward.
Been trying to get a trade all day long, no takers, makes me wonder if cannons are maybe worth more than 12ggc?

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Originally Posted by KC-Grim

You got to love complete VLT on a work day:rolleyes:

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It is so true. It stuns me that those in control haven't thought about this? You may only get hours depending upon when and how often you sleep. And then an adventure of that scale? Yeah, you can do it but I don't care how many buffs you have you can only build so many troops in a given period of time.

It boggles the mind...

Why do you think BB expect you to 'trash' 50 cannons for only 12 guild coins?

Surely you get 12 guild coins when you complete your element of the quest plus the extra guild coins when the guild quest ends which could be anything from very few to over 200 depending on the number of people that complete the quest in your guild.

If you are assuming its just the immediate 12 guild coins then you are extremely short sighted in your view and your statement.

another quest I dislike because it involves a level 4 or higher advanced paper mill at least x2 buffed and needs me to come on at just past midnight and complete not too short of midnight the next night. The amount of paper needing to be produced needs to be dropped to something like 250 to be realistic.

http://i.imgur.com/avUr3FL.png

you guyz know you can just buy a lootspot to complete VLT right?

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Originally Posted by Dorotheus

Under the old system it was 80% of the guild to complete, translating that to the new system means aiming to complete 80% or more of the quests is a fair goal for all guild members as far as I'm concerned.

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Doesn't the time factor change the calculation in this regard? 80% completion in unlimited time is not the same as 80% completion daily, except in very active (I dare say larger) guilds. This standard dictates a style of play, one which I personally don't ascribe to and I don't think the game itself forces.

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Originally Posted by fishslice

Why do you think BB expect you to 'trash' 50 cannons for only 12 guild coins?

Surely you get 12 guild coins when you complete your element of the quest plus the extra guild coins when the guild quest ends which could be anything from very few to over 200 depending on the number of people that complete the quest in your guild.

If you are assuming its just the immediate 12 guild coins then you are extremely short sighted in your view and your statement.

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Fishslice: I think your valuing the guild coins over the cannons is based on your personal situation. Not all players, even at higher levels, will make that same assessment. For more casual players, or those without completely built out islands (amassing the granite necessary to produce higher level buildings takes a lot of activity, more than the associated xp amassed in many instances) producing cannons is not feasible (and since, without adventure mishaps, they don't often need to be rebuilt, many choose not to make them). Thus 'paying' with resources that are rarely produced requires the trade market being conveniently available with reasonably priced goods - and if many people get the same quest (as they do) then those goods become scarce quickly.

So, I would suggest that 'pay' quests of rare or valuable resources (those that one can't or doesn't often produce, or that take a long time to produce) are, in many cases, very difficult. That coupled with the guild quest (rather than a daily quest, which can be opted out of more easily) makes for this frustration among more casual players (and those with less developed islands, for whatever reason).

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Originally Posted by HFoC

you guyz know you can just buy a lootspot to complete VLT right?

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Good point HFoC :D, I did overlook that.

you cant really complain about pay quests as long as there are produce quests.. in the situation you describe first you actually can do the second you cant.

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Originally Posted by topgearfan

you cant really complain about pay quests as long as there are produce quests.. in the situation you describe first you actually can do the second you cant.

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Presuming you are referring to my comments, I think that there are problems with both produce and pay quests, in some instances. I think the 'pay quests' for resources that are not producable (platinum, etc) at these levels, as well as for resources rarely produced for any other purpose (cannons, or as mentioned earlier, crossbows) are also rarely feasible for some players at these levels. To make them reasonable the resources would have to be available for trade (which isn't always the case).

In addition, the 'produce' quests, in many instances, require high(er) level buildings, and a long time (or very specifically planned) time of participation. This has been detailed often, specifically with relation to those that require the Bookbinder. I would suggest some resources along these lines, especially in the quantities required, fall into that category. This is compounded by having the produce quest triggered with first login, even if the workshops are running otherwise. This means multiple time logins, even if the resource is something that can be produced reasonably. A change in that procedure, to either 'acquire', 'pay', 'have' or another type of quest, or allowing the computer to count from the time the quest appears rather than one logs in during the day (so if I log in 2 hours before reset, but my farms have been producing wheat all day, it would note that).

The comments are not meant as simply complaints, but ways to improve the game.

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Originally Posted by FolquetTheGreat

Doesn't the time factor change the calculation in this regard? 80% completion in unlimited time is not the same as 80% completion daily, except in very active (I dare say larger) guilds. This standard dictates a style of play, one which I personally don't ascribe to and I don't think the game itself forces.

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80% needed to complete a guild quests under the old system is not the same as completing 80% of the guild quests under the old system. My point being that yes there are going to be guild quests that you can't now do for time or production reasons but you should not be beating yourself up because of it.

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Originally Posted by Dorotheus

80% needed to complete a guild quests under the old system is not the same as completing 80% of the guild quests under the old system. My point being that yes there are going to be guild quests that you can't now do for time or production reasons but you should not be beating yourself up because of it.

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Well, that is a refreshing nice take on how this is being run. I hope all of the guilds are that considerate in terms of completion rates and urging members to complete the quests.

I do think this new system is pushing people towards larger guilds, which offer higher rewards in this guild quest system. Previously, getting 80% of the guild to complete any one guild quest (in any amount of time) yeilded a common reward. This new system allows people to earn a guild quest reward more frequently (advantage to active and very active members), but doesn't specifically reward a common completion rate (it goes up only incrementally) so to gain similar rewards to before, one needs a larger number of members completing, not just a specific percentage. 8 members completing (80% of the minimum qualifying guild membership under the old system) doesn't not seem to offer the 77 guild coins from before (though do correct me if that is inaccurate). I believe it is closer to 40-50 guild coins. This pushes people to larger guilds for the greater rewards, and many of the larger guilds have more demands on completion rates (or other activity requirements) than the smaller guilds - on average.

I may be wrong on all of this, but that is how it seems to me at this stage. Happy for discussion.

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Originally Posted by HFoC

you guyz know you can just buy a lootspot to complete VLT right?

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This is of course true, but is still somewhat dependent on elements you may not be able to control.

You may already be on an invite, possibly to a long adventure.
You might already have logged in with a short amount of time remaining and you can't find anyone running one (or close enough to finish).
You may not have price that they are asking.

So while that is a great option to starting one yourself, it's not a guarantee. Something like BK I would agree with the LS option completely because of how often it's offered and the reasonable price. VLT might still be out of range given the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by topgearfan

you cant really complain about pay quests as long as there are produce quests.. in the situation you describe first you actually can do the second you cant.

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Well this week so far I have had 3 quest I did not do. I was able to, but the price was too high compared to what I get. Today I have to pay 30 mahogany wood. I do have it, but I dont want to pay 30 mahogany wood to get 50 guild coins. I might be able to get 30 mahogany wood in marked for 50 GC- but that does not matter. I have a limited amount of mahogany wood. I can get it from doing ali baba yes, but my Elite Barracks is upgrading and it takes 10 days for that to be done.

I also have had 50 cannons and 50 crossbows, and that is simply too expensive to pay for 50 guild coins.

Yes I might get more in a bigger guild. But I dont want to be in a bigger guild. I dont play to get a lot of GC. I am not in a guild just to get a lot of GC. I am in a guild so that we can chat and help each other with the game.

The new system is breaking down that part of the Guild function,- tempting players to be members of big guilds. Forcing relaxed players to be out of guilds. there for it should be changed, It should support the social aspects, not breaking it down.

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Originally Posted by Urd123

Well this week so far I have had 3 quest I did not do. I was able to, but the price was too high compared to what I get. Today I have to pay 30 mahogany wood. I do have it, but I dont want to pay 30 mahogany wood to get 50 guild coins. I might be able to get 30 mahogany wood in marked for 50 GC- but that does not matter. I have a limited amount of mahogany wood. I can get it from doing ali baba yes, but my Elite Barracks is upgrading and it takes 10 days for that to be done.

I also have had 50 cannons and 50 crossbows, and that is simply too expensive to pay for 50 guild coins.

Yes I might get more in a bigger guild. But I dont want to be in a bigger guild. I dont play to get a lot of GC. I am not in a guild just to get a lot of GC. I am in a guild so that we can chat and help each other with the game.

The new system is breaking down that part of the Guild function,- tempting players to be members of big guilds. Forcing relaxed players to be out of guilds. there for it should be changed, It should support the social aspects, not breaking it down.

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I won't go into the in's and out's of which quest is worth what but I agree with some of the sentiment, too many of the quests inflict either a play style or a vast routine change on players, some causing a certain amount of guilt on players because they are either unable or incapable of completing them.

Ours today is complete vtv for higher level players, now seriously that's forcing an adventure that by and large none of the community does down our throats, I ordinarily wouldn't of even thought of doing it at it's required level let alone in the 51-64 bracket, the rewards are poor, the losses are comparatively high, it's time consuming for the xp given. This sort of quest could dominate a players whole session of play which over time will cause resentment. Most players come on to do something they enjoy not have something they do not forced upon them.

The production quests that are forcing players to log on at obscure times of the day to get them started are a bit out of order also, some of them even with a building at level 5 are ridiculously long forcing players to log in many hours apart to get them done.

I hope BB revisit the quests and perhaps substitute some with better adventures to be done, lessen the production amounts on others and generally balance them a bit better, but I fear this is the finished product.

I also wish the guild quests could actually boost the community aspect of guilds because tbh most of them are just annoying solo quests the do nothing to enhance your guild life.

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Originally Posted by Urd123

30 mahogany wood to get 50 guild coins

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I understand that you want to be oblivious to prices and stubbornly refuse to use TO but why would your guildmates have to suffer for it?

Ill be happy to help your guild get more guild coins even if you do not. If you get that quest send me a trade offering your guild coin reward for 30 mahongany wood.

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Originally Posted by topgearfan

I understand that you want to be oblivious to prices and stubbornly refuse to use TO but why would your guildmates have to suffer for it?

Ill be happy to help your guild get more guild coins even if you do not. If you get that quest send me a trade offering your guild coin reward for 30 mahongany wood.

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I said it before - I say it again. This is a game. I do it to relax and have fun. The new system is not making it fun, it is making it into one more thing that gives stress. If the quest does not pay or is even something I find worse than going to the dentist, then I dont do it. Pressure does not make people enjoy the game more.

If my guild see it as a problem that I chose not to complete then I would leave. I am considering that, and would as I also said before prefer to stay in guild and not have any quest.

I cant see why the game makes are so stupid that they want us to do something that is clearly not worth the effort. Yes I could get the mahogany in TO, - but it would be cheaper to get the guild coins and just donate them to the guild.

Not sure what you mean by the last part but since you talk about the value of things 30 mahogany wood is worth 10 guild coins. If you get 50 instead of 10 it seems like the quest is worth doing? Unless your guild specifically avoids doing guild quests I'm sure they'll be happy you helped everyone earn more coins and help you with trades and possibly give you the things you have to pay if you are short. Seems like win/win to me. :)

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Originally Posted by topgearfan

I understand that you want to be oblivious to prices and stubbornly refuse to use TO but why would your guildmates have to suffer for it?

Ill be happy to help your guild get more guild coins even if you do not. If you get that quest send me a trade offering your guild coin reward for 30 mahongany wood.

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My last quest (750 advanced paper) would have require 2 levels into my advanced papermill and a 4x buff. I don't need that much paper to support the books I'm building. It would have drained me of valuable resources to get the levels into the building. I don't see this as selfish, the request is silly.

I can accept that some quests - by design - are going to be difficult to do. I expect other players will understand when I can't (or wont) do one because of the cost.

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Originally Posted by topgearfan

Not sure what you mean by the last part but since you talk about the value of things 30 mahogany wood is worth 10 guild coins. If you get 50 instead of 10 it seems like the quest is worth doing? Unless your guild specifically avoids doing guild quests I'm sure they'll be happy you helped everyone earn more coins and help you with trades and possibly give you the things you have to pay if you are short. Seems like win/win to me. :)

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If the quest is not worth doing then I am not doing it. That is the only way I can tell BB that they have made some very bad quests. They dont listen to feedback:
I can only wonder why they make quests that is not worth doing. I cant see why my guild should want me to sacrifice stuff to give them coins this way. We help each otehr all the time in many other ways. So to pay for stuff in marked in order to solve a guild quest is not on my todo list.

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Originally Posted by Xibor

My last quest (750 advanced paper) would have require 2 levels into my advanced papermill and a 4x buff. I don't need that much paper to support the books I'm building. It would have drained me of valuable resources to get the levels into the building. I don't see this as selfish, the request is silly.

I can accept that some quests - by design - are going to be difficult to do. I expect other players will understand when I can't (or wont) do one because of the cost.

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my comment was about the specific pay mahogany wood quest. my previous comment was about pay quests being possible to do versus produce quests being "impossible" to do. problem?

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Originally Posted by Urd123

If the quest is not worth doing then I am not doing it. That is the only way I can tell BB that they have made some very bad quests. They dont listen to feedback:
I can only wonder why they make quests that is not worth doing. I cant see why my guild should want me to sacrifice stuff to give them coins this way. We help each otehr all the time in many other ways. So to pay for stuff in marked in order to solve a guild quest is not on my todo list.

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Thats exactly how I do it too. But 99.9% sure they do not actively monitor quest completion rates so leaving feedback in the forum or support is still the best (only) chance. If they did daily quests should have been reworked (again) a long time ago.
Yes some quests are silly or "impossible" but that has been the BB way for a long time. My point is that a lot more quests than it seems at first are worth doing.
Maybe part of it is that in the new system the reward is small in the beginning and it seems its not worth the bother. If everyone sees only that and not the potential for growth it will never get there..

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Originally Posted by Urd123

If the quest is not worth doing then I am not doing it. That is the only way I can tell BB that they have made some very bad quests. They dont listen to feedback:
I can only wonder why they make quests that is not worth doing. I cant see why my guild should want me to sacrifice stuff to give them coins this way. We help each otehr all the time in many other ways. So to pay for stuff in marked in order to solve a guild quest is not on my todo list.

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You really think they care less whether you do the guild quest or not? Someone somewhere in the dev team has made up a random selection of quests and chucked them out there, if they cannot be completed so what from their side? Some players will be tempted to gem the quest and BB gain, simples.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in a thread titled "lost for words" that has 16 pages and counting on it?

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Originally Posted by Alsh

Am I the only one who sees the irony in a thread titled "lost for words" that has 16 pages and counting on it?

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:)

Guild quest are ridicules after last change. You changed price to be 4x the amount of gems it was before and on top of that, quest are either ridiculously hard to do, or the gain of guild coins it's simply not worth it.
At least make is to, that the people who make the quest get the % of the required ppl to successfully complete quest * people that actually made it. As it currently stands, daily quest require (for sub 50 level player) 3300 gems if you buy quest daily.
Money wise this is more than proper MMORP requires to play, just for daily quest.
I don't have any problems spending money for online game, but in your case I decided I will vote with my valet.

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Originally Posted by Shultz

Guild quest are ridicules after last change. You changed price to be 4x the amount of gems it was before and on top of that, quest are either ridiculously hard to do, or the gain of guild coins it's simply not worth it.
At least make is to, that the people who make the quest get the % of the required ppl to successfully complete quest * people that actually made it. As it currently stands, daily quest require (for sub 50 level player) 3300 gems if you buy quest daily.
Money wise this is more than proper MMORP requires to play, just for daily quest.
I don't have any problems spending money for online game, but in your case I decided I will vote with my valet.

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Why pay to get the quest done- they can never be worth that ????

I agree that the quests does not fit the new system, many of them require more than the 6- 8 hours many players have on a normal weekday. But cant undestand why you simply skip the quest instead of paying gems. As you say, the coins are not worth that.