The Agora = ?

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Originally Posted by BB_Azariel

What is / How to become / What are the rules to being... a Public Speaker
What is...

The Agora is the place where some chosen players can come and ask the MOD and BB team questions, open discussions about specific topics (such as moderation, rules or community mood) with the team, and share their thoughts and experience in order to make the game more enjoyable for all of us.

Through this process we hope to publicly address the hottest, most important or most controversial topics of the time in a controlled and calm fashion.


How to become...

If you wish to become a public speaker, please ask your favorite Moderator. Explain to him/her why you would like to become a Public speaker and what qualities you have that would help us choose you.

Be warned, it's the moderators choice to present you or not to the moderation team as a possible public speaker: make sure the moderator knows you from previous actions within the TSO community. Also, being an active member of the community, being calm and diplomatic, being mature and open to discussion are all qualities we expect from our Public Speakers.


The rules...

The basic rules are simple: be objective, be calm, be understanding, if you don't agree then do it in a constructive manner. Please do not denounce players or mods: point out a general mistake and give a constructive counter-measure.

If we respect these rules, we should be able to bring significant and long-term improvement to the game and the community.


Thank you,

BB_Azariel

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I feel i had to make a thread about this as i feel the approach here is a FAIL.

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If you wish to become a public speaker, please ask your favorite Moderator. Explain to him/her why you would like to become a Public speaker and what qualities you have that would help us choose you.

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Well in my position i have No Favourite Moderator as i spend most of my Idle time in G-7, where for the most part we have self Moderated. I may be unique in this, but still a major fail in the Public Speaker department.

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Be warned, it's the moderators choice to present you or not to the moderation team as a possible public speaker: make sure the moderator knows you from previous actions within the TSO community. Also, being an active member of the community, being calm and diplomatic, being mature and open to discussion are all qualities we expect from our Public Speakers.

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Again another fail, The Public Speaker's Positions will be filled with 'Moderators Pets'.
I have played previously games with exactly the same set up and the outcome has never benifited the game for the 'whole community'.
If you want to have a discussion group, with players that will bring forth ideas and issues that are relevant to the day to day running of the game, 'pets' are not the answer.

In my Opinion other options need to be looked at.

Please be aware that i am not belittling Moderators, but they are human and therefore biased from the start.

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Originally Posted by Scarman

Again another fail, The Public Speaker's Positions will be filled with 'Moderators Pets'.
I have played previously games with exactly the same set up and the outcome has never benifited the game for the 'whole community'.
If you want to have a discussion group, with players that will bring forth ideas and issues that are relevant to the day to day running of the game, 'pets' are not the answer.

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I disagree with you in this.. The "Public Speakers" will most likely be a mix of "pets" as you call them and mature players who feel they can voice the concerns of the community in general.

I for one welcome this as it's an opportunity i askt for. And im certainly no-ones pet Altho i would have liked it to be publicly available instead of closed. But publicly addressing issues would lead to insufferable amounts of flaming and trolling.

You say this is a FAIL as if it was a certainty when in truth it's just an opinion.
Where others have failed we have yet to try, so why do you demean the effort?

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I have to ask tho, why only MOD's? clearly the BB's can cast a gander at the forum posts of any applicant and use the veto right.

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Originally Posted by Scrooge

I have to ask tho, why only MOD's? clearly the BB's can cast a gander at the forum posts of any applicant and use the veto right.

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This is my exact thoughts, so where is the retort... or did you miss

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In my Opinion other options need to be looked at.

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That is an option worth considering.

Well.. Scarman.

If you wanted to point out that more staff could appoint public speakers you hid the sentiment well.

I do still disagree with you in general but support your opinion of searching for other options, got any you'd like to voice at this time and day?
By the way, retort -> Explanatory Link

I just feel that having to get friendly with a Moderator, to have any opportunity of being a 'Public Speaker' will not serve the community as intended.

Why not have an open Thread for players to put their name forward with the reason they would like to be considered for the role. Like an applications thread. Then by all means let the Mod's look through the list and 'Applications' to put forward who they feel maybe viable for the role, as they witness players in Global channels all day long.

And you have completely mis interpreted what i have tried to say Scrooge. The fact that after only a few months BB want player input as to issues in day to day play is great, real solutions to real problems in the game can be addressed quickly and efficiently.

this is what we call corruption over here, the speaker has to talk for the players, but is not chosen by the players.

its almost like politics the only difference is that ppl dont get payed for this job.

i have many issues about this, but who am i to say

I would have to agree with Scarman on faliure of the fact that to become a Publick speaker you need to befriend one or more moderators, therefore you will have to share they opinion and as such your figure of public speacker will be partially onesided, so the "public" bit is not as "open" as it sould be. but from this being friendly to be the pet vision is a long, long gap.
On the other hand if what BB wants is a public speaker that is afin to the moderation team, why bother? nominate directly the moderators themselves, after all, they the ones that will forward the speakers, so cut the middle man and go strait for the already settled public figures that we all know and respect. and i say respect, with the due respect; in my case in particular i know some of the today moderator since the times of the BBGC (blue byte game chanel) from Settlers 4.
If what BB wants is the opnion of general players they sould monitor the chats themselves or even beter create a section on the forum where each one of the pretendients to the role will forward themselves and be voted for the general player, in this way, we all will know exactly wich candidate is more popular, after all none of us (the players) are stupid and whether intervining on the chit-chat of every day or not, we read the chat and know who talk rubish and who is a potencial pet and who is interested in helping and who has good (or bad) ideas, atitude and who chats becouse they like to hear thenselves and so on and so ford. And most importan of all, we ( the players) are the ones that pay for this game to be on line.
So no, i disagree with BB that the public speacker sould be "recomended" for a moderator.

I have no problem with players that send a application to me about being a public speaker, I have received one already.

I am not recruiting any moderator pets at all, infact I will turn the other way if any players turn to ( sucking up) to me to get what they want from me, I have plenty of respect for players that act muture, play the game to their best ability and learn the strategy's to be the best at it, respect the rules and everyone involved in the game, they are the people that I would recommend to BB about these positions.

I am only a new moderator, and I don't know many of the other mods that well yet, however I do know Moderators Penny and Sciba for a number of years, and I know for a fact they wont give anyone a chance that comes running up to them to be a pet, they will turn towards supporting the players that act mature, be helpful, trade fairly, respect the rules, the game, the players and so forth.

I am in trade channel a lot, as I do quite a lot of trading, mostly through whispers but I am there watching the channel often, specially during australian peak time, so I dont believe in these mod pets that you speak of, I will always give the people that deserve the right attention and benefits of my support when needed.


Kioco

I share the concerns of you all but i do not fear them becoming a reality!
I believe that the moderators rather than the public have been chosen to present players to speak for the community because their trusted to bring forth people who know how to properly voice ideas, concerns and so forth.

Furthermore i also feel confident that should the appointed players not properly represent themselves on behalf of the community the BB team would have them striped of the privilege.

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being an active member of the community, being calm and diplomatic, being mature and open to discussion are all qualities we expect from our Public Speakers.

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I would like to highlight this section of Azariels introduction to the Agora.

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If you wish to become a public speaker, please ask your favorite Moderator. Explain to him/her why you would like to become a Public speaker and what qualities you have that would help us choose you.

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It seems to me that we as players should have favorites rather than the aforementioned moderators having pets.

As to why the Agora is not publicly available.

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The Agora is the place where some chosen players can come and ask the MOD and BB team questions, open discussions about specific topics (such as moderation, rules or community mood) with the team, and share their thoughts and experience in order to make the game more enjoyable for all of us.

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the Agora is as quoted above, a place to question the rules etc without having to deal with trolls, wizards or flamers throwing a fit.
As i understand it anyway.

as Azariel put it (forgive me for quoting a pm here Azariel)

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This would help you (for example) talk about sensitive subjects without fear of being modded.

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I hope this have cast some light on the dreads i have seen posted so far.

I simply applied to a random MOD i saw in help (Kioco). He was very friendly and immediately posted my application on some type of internal application forum. That part seems to be working fine in my eyes. Haven't said two words to him before this.

I just hope they don't choose people based on their fame from global-1 and help. Alot of the more advanced players i know got bored of the repeated questions and spam that is frequent there on day 1.

Hi guys,

Let me try and answer a few of the questions you have talked about here.

"Friendly" Moderator?
The word "friendly" was just to try and make the whole thing more enjoyable. OF COURSE we will consider your application just as much if you've never spoken to a MOD than if you speak to them every day.

How we choose Public Speaker?
We can't let people vote... Can you imagine the amount of work this would take? The amount of spam there would be on the forum as a result? Also, we would then be forced to take on anyone, even people we know to have trolling tendencies, people who are not objective, people who have never contributed in any way or people who clearly dislike some of the moderation team.
... so no, we will not let players vote on it.

"Moderator pets"?
I don't see why they would be. Is this just the word "friendly" that was not understood? I must say that personally I much prefer having a constructive discussion with someone who does not agree with me than with a "pet" who will side with me no matter what.
We do not need pets for this, we need people who have opposite ideas and can positively contribute to the game.

Publicly?
The discussion will be public: they concern the public speakers, the moderators, and any BB_ staff who want to join in (mainly me and BB_Ravel). Any Public Speaker can start a discussion. This discussion will be closed to normal players (they won't be able to write in them), but they will be able to read what is happening.

The point of the Agora?
To have as many links with the community as possible with a few players who can objectively and diplomatically contribute to the long term growth of the game. Why do we not just do this openly with all players? Because it would be impossible to maintain a long-term, logical and interesting discussion.

Feel free to ask more questions if you have them.

Please do not be sarcastic or bashful. This is not necessary and, quite frankly, it's very rude as I put a lot of effort in helping you guys!


Best,

BB_Azariel

why do people always .. always .. have problems with the mods in this game.. or things related to mods...

BB is trying to give us this great opportunity where we can have our direct say about our ideas, and instead of embracing it, you whine about how you have to apply to the mods....

time will tell how things go. I have already decided i am tired of the countless idiots spamming when there is no mod around (usually early mornings cet for me) so i lurk in global-7. Ofc it is hard to tell if revamped tradesystem will kill global-7 or not etc etc but in general i have no issues with the public speaker concept

If there is disagreements with what they say/post etc, there is still the other forums to discuss those weird positions they might defend or propose in the agora and if too many disagree i presume that will be heared by BB as well, or by other public speakers.

For myself i don;t see a role there as i do not really want to go out and "feel the mood" of the rest of the playerbase and would only voice my opinions in there- for whatever they are worth. Ofc it is hard to see how serious these public speakers will take care of their role.

I am a bit sceptic about the concept though and many times they do exactly the thing why i wouldnt take the role and that is promote their ideas and visions instead of listening to the community and try to bring balanced points to the boards. It would probably take more effort from BB to manage this risk and probably is somethign that can not be delegated to the mods either, esp as moderating has completely different needs and background (maintain order) than public speakers (voice <community> opinions)

I think BB is close enough to the community to be able to select people or approach people for this role at this time )

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Originally Posted by marlock

why do people always .. always .. have problems with the mods in this game.. or things related to mods...

BB is trying to give us this great opportunity where we can have our direct say about our ideas, and instead of embracing it, you whine about how you have to apply to the mods....

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I don;t have an issue with mods- although many people seem to have issues with the concept of mods. The only thing i might have an issue with is having mods being involved in this selection process/application process as i feel mods have a completely different role to public speakers - one being maintaining order and the other discussing state of the game etc. Ofc a mod can also be a good public speaker but imo this is not an automatic given though as many people i see as potential public speakers would be horrible mods

Qualan i adressed that very train of thought previously.

Here

"Nuff said"

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Originally Posted by Marlock

why do people always .. always .. have problems with the mods in this game.. or things related to mods...

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People have issues with moderators because they regulate transgressions, and since when have people enjoyed having to abide by rules they don't normally follow?

i was just stating my 2 cents ) I still think it is best for BB to select etc, just to avoid additional layers, especially since both Azariel and Ravel are around both server chats enough to have a good idea who is mature/balanced etc.

It would serve 2 good purposes imo, 1) protect mods from possible accusations of mod bashers and 2) it would seem closer to BB for the general community and as such would probably instill (a touch more) confidence that the right people are being heared.

That being said, the current set up will work as well, as would one with community votes imo or a rotation or about 300 other variations on the theme

Actually, i applied to Azariel.
I believe the Moderators are taking the applications because the one your more likely to apply to are far more likely to know that your fit for the task.
Less work around each applicant that way i suppose.

And i don't know whether Azariel and Ravel have the intimate knowledge you believe them to have but i still think the moderators are a bonus in this case.
The bigger the jury the better judgement i say.

I’m not entirely sure I see the point in this whole system. How about making a forum section for everyone to post in. The mods can then just go through them at there leisure and if a number of posts are unhappy about something, happy about something or take issue with something then they could sticky them or consolidate the good posts on that topic into 1 sticked post for BB’s viewing pleasure to see what the hot issues are at the moment. The advantage of this system is despite it still counting on mods to highlight things, everyone’s voice is still heard. If players disagree with a mods take on someone else’s post they can keep posting in it bumping it up to the top all the time. I don’t like the idea of leaving it in the hands of just a select group of people in charge to tell BB what’s wrong or what’s right and not to change. What happens if the speakers disagree with lots of players? What about if the mods don’t choose players to be speakers that have rubbed them the wrong way in the past but actually have something useful to say or would otherwise be a good speaker. I don’t know the mods or the speakers and I don’t trust them. Everyone’s view should be heard when it comes to feedback. The good and the bad. It should not be channelled through ‘representatives’.

In my view no one should be elevated in any way from the player base at all. We should all be equal. No mods, no public speakers, just the public at large. I don’t know how pvp is going to be developed but I believe at some point the mods power to ban players will be an issue. If not for the obvious miss use of it at a crucial pvp’ing moment but just the unfair psychological effect of going up against a player that is also a mod or a guild with a mod in it. Not to mention what ‘speakers’ will say when a pvp system is implemented. What if there all anti-pvp? There not going to want to help make the system better by suggesting ideas for it. Or if there pro pvp then they might only suggest ideas that benefit the top pvpers to help them stay at the top. The little guy gets left out. Being, respectful, calm, controlled and considered in ones thoughts is good but there is no test on how to tell what someone’s thoughts really are. And if were to also think about it from the speaker or mod point of view then i can see a lot of people that take issue with them will do all they can to make sure whatever the pvp system lets them do is done to them with as much ill will as possible.

There should be a system open to all to have there voice heard in my opinion. This thread a case in point. Everyone should be able to have there view and post heard and seen, in reply to an issue they want to say something about. I first tried to reply to posts in the agora section and couldn’t. So the next thing I did was go looking for another place to do so and found this thread.

As most will have seen I signed up to The Agora and got accepted.

So far just Stalk, BB_azariel and I replied there. So seems we still need more speakers.

As far as i got insight on the selection criteria:
The application is posted in the MOD section of the forums. MODs and BBs can express their oppinion about the player that has applied. When consences has been reached you will get an invite (or not).

As in representing the community.
Its up to BB to make sure all playergroups are somehow represented. I do not plan on representing a specific group. In fact I will think about any given subject and form an oppinion based on how I experience the game. For one subject I could be expressing the oppinion af player A, C, D and the next time it can be A, B, F etc.

With enough speakers this wont cause any problems. It will also prevent to much politics (like with the voting idea).
If you ever see an agora subject where you feel a point of view is missing you got 2 options:
1: Sign up as speaker
2: Contact a speaker explaining your view in a civil matter. And hope he or she agrees.

@dopey
I guess your idea is as good or bad as the agora idea. BB chose The agora because its less work for the MODs to keep it clean and visible.
But all equals would mean selfregulation, this is non existant on the internet (or in real life)

I can see both sides of the argument. But let us give this a try and see how it goes before we jump to conclusions

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Originally Posted by marlock

why do people always .. always .. have problems with the mods in this game.. or things related to mods...

BB is trying to give us this great opportunity where we can have our direct say about our ideas, and instead of embracing it, you whine about how you have to apply to the mods....

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I could not agree more here,wisely spoken to.Instead of whining we should indeed embrace the idea,even be more enthousiastic.As you say yes it is always the same problem here,i dont see any problem with any mod here,even fild an application to become one.We need to be more understanding here cuz moderation is not an easy task to forfill as these people see ,read and try to understand some of the players trying to spam or misbehave,even than the try to make it a paecefull and civil chat. The agora?? yes a great idea wich a stand for it and will support it,so please to all players see it for once from BB and mods side since they are only make things more beter ingame and on forum.Therefore i say ,yes to the agora idea.

What happened to the Agora?
Did it die down?

actually if anyone must represent me (me=the base players), it is my duty to ellect my reprensentatives.
that is the differnce betwing democracy and dictatoship.

I made public speaker.

I joined in closed beta, I'm no ones pet, I'm a guild leader, I'm a veteran gamer on multiple platforms/genres and I like cream eggs.

I'm happy to bring up any kind of topic be it aimed at BB, mods or the community.

All I hope is that this helps the community and the Mods/Devs grow in the right direction and my first gripe is with the community :P but ill post it in the agora :D

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Originally Posted by DamianG

(me=the base players)

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Seems you do exactly what you dont want the public speakers to do. Speaking on behalf of the player base ;)

As i said before, with enough speakers there will be no need to for elections. the Agora will be provided with enough opinions.