loot swaps/sales gone bad

today a old problem was revived, player A sold a lootspot to player B, player B didnt pay.

we are told that a screenshot is required to proove what happened in order to measures to be taken (can understand that, dont want people getting banned falsely acused). now, it gets more complicated... discussing this mather Player C say " i was scammed and my screenshot was not good enough".

i think, in order to try fix this isue, we need more info from BB about whats required from the screenshot.

a official answer would be rather nice (from BB_dantesama or BB_Ravel after cheking whit the dev team or whoever can investigate this cases).

if this topic already exists, im sorry, if this is not the right place feel free to move it, but please, i think an official answer about this issue is needed.

No measures can be taken, not officially anyway

Any trade not supported wholly by the in game trade system is at user's risk. That's the offical policy.

basically, BB aren't going to get involved.

how about we wait for an official answer here gerontius? :P

(Edit-PS: i will feel abit cheated if thats official answer, since we have been asked for screenshots on several ocasions such as this, if it at own risk, we should have been told so when it happened, witch wasnt the case.)

This is taken directly from the Code of conduct

Quote:

---

Spamming / Flooding/scamming
The creation of spam and/or flooding posts is not permitted and may, depending on the circumstances, result in a 24-hour ban and even exclusion from the service (game/chat room/forum). Scamming is strictly againt the rules and can result in a permanent ban.

---

Based upon that, BB will get involved, hopefully we will hear back a response soon regarding the required proof for the situation

peck_ed apreciate the feedback but err 1: u did something wrong on the code of conduct link thinguie (it irrelevant tho x)), and 2: it doesnt answer the question, what does screenshot needs, as it seems some screenshots were deemed invalid, would be good to know what exactly they need to investigate properly and act when needed.

(now hope you dont take me wrong, but as a mod cant exactly give an official answer on this, rly hoping to hear from dante or ravel (or any other BB), hope you understand, just want get this issue sorted once and for all, i for once not doing any more swaps/trades of lootspots until i can have a safeguard, for that i need to know, what does BB require on the screenshot)

Whoops! Sorry fixed the post link

And the other thing is my last comment states

Quote:

---

hopefully we will hear back a response soon regarding the required proof for the situation

---

I also agree that further clarification would be nice, it does state later in the CoC that

Quote:

---

If you suspect a particular account of cheating, please take a screenshot and send it to support along with any other useful information. Cheats should only be reported to the Support team.

---

But again, clarification on required information for scams would be nice

Official trade policy: "Any type of purchase/exchange/trade that isn't fully supported by the tools provided by blue byte is at the user's own risk. "

Based on that, they won't get involved

Gerontius - aren't you being to simplistic. BB obviously provide multi-player adventures but don't offer the 2nd / 3rd spot through the trade system but throught the invite system. As such Invite is a supported function. BB has to expect there to be give and take in loot spots - either an adventure swap, a shared troop loss or a sale of resources to cover the spot. All of these circumstances are catered for but require an element of trust - exactly the reason they instigated the wait 24hour to trade scenario.
This is a problem they have created and are interested in seeing it properly monitored / policed - hence previously requesting screen shots in said circumstances.

They created the blocking system, they don't recognise or support that...

It's just too much trouble for them to bother policing it

Just wondering how it got to the stage of someone not paying? First u advertise the lootspot, then the seller puts a trade in the market and the buyer takes it, then, and only then does the seller send the invite. If theres no payment theres no invite! U sent invite b4 payment? Surely not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MutantKid

Just wondering how it got to the stage of someone not paying? First u advertise the lootspot, then the seller puts a trade in the market and the buyer takes it, then, and only then does the seller send the invite. If theres no payment theres no invite! U sent invite b4 payment? Surely not?

---

While most lootspot sales and purchases (and other trade interactions) go without difficulty they can go badly either way, the order in which invite and payment are sent is, unfortunately, no guarantee of a trouble free experience.

I am firmly convinced that the vast majority of players play the game fairly and for honest enjoyment and this makes TSO much of what it is but if someone truly wishes to take advantage they will find a way and this is why I agree very strongly that, for any instance of suspected scamming,:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peck_ed

clarification on required information for scams would be nice

---

and that it:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IMarduk

would be good to know what exactly they [BB] need to investigate properly and act when needed.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MutantKid

Just wondering how it got to the stage of someone not paying? First u advertise the lootspot, then the seller puts a trade in the market and the buyer takes it, then, and only then does the seller send the invite. If theres no payment theres no invite! U sent invite b4 payment? Surely not?

---

okay what if player "x" pretends to have a lootspot for sale, takes money, and no ls? what about lootswaps? its not so simple.

issue wasnt whit me, but had me thinking... we need more details as what bb needs in case of loots scams, like i said in original post, they say take screenshot, guy took screenshot, they say not valid, so what makes it valid? think, as peck_ed said, this could use some more detailed explanaition.

You require screenshots of the deal that was agreed

Well, I think that the best possible answer to this would be an upgraded lootspot trading system. Right now, the whole lootspot trading goes on based on trust, which is often good, but it could be made simpler (simpler for players, but maybe not for developers, im afraid).

A new kind of trade: where you could automatically put up a lootspot, on the trade office, for instance, and a price for it. If it is accepted by another player, an invite is sent from the adventure, and the price goes to the one who offered the lootspot.
On the other hand, this could just result in people who dont wait for purchasers to take the lootspot, they just complete the adventure once they get paid. Maybe purchasing a lootspot should also make the owner of the adventure incapable to attack enemy camps to prevent scamming?

This could help somehow, but it would take a lot of developing on the game, I would pressume. And it still maybe isn't foolproof.
I dont think that there is no way to ensure no scamming can happen, but something is better than nothing.

Another idea:
A "lootspot trading review", where a player could "vote down" someone who scams in lootspots, and other players could somehow see this.
Maybe after each adventure with two or more players, the game would ask, "If lootspots were bought for this, did the other player(s) make the trade correctly?"
...this again could just result in trolls who vote down everyone, but it is again something, and possibly easier to make?

All my ideas are suggestions that involve modifying the game.
I cant think of anything that would work better without that happening, sorry.

EDIT: A new idea:
If the lootspot trade takes place in a guild, the guild leader could make the decision of kicking a player accused of scamming. Many guilds have these rules already thought up, but it couldnt hurt making a little threat once in a while that if someone scams, they would be out of the guild.
This one again isnt very foolproof.

Personally I think the best way is to add an extra box beside the invite a Friend in the lootspot where you can ask for certain goods for inviting that player, if the buyer agree on the price, the system takes the goods and hold it until the Adventure is complete.

If the Adventure is complete, then the goods is released to the seller and everyone go in their own way, if the Adventure didn't complete, then the goods will return back to the buyer, and everyone go in their own way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a pretty safe and easy way, not sure how easy it is in development side, but they should consider it.

Hello guys,

Just to clarify-> copied from the rules

"It is forbidden to sell or exchange in-game content (gems, codes,accounts, vouchers etc...) for real money or digital goods. Any type of purchase/exchange/trade that isn't fully supported by the tools provided by Blue Byte is at the user's own risk"

This simply means that Blue Byte will not take action/take responsability.

Regarding screenshots, please take it when you witness a dodgy/potential dangerous transaction, as peck_ed mentioned above , also when the deal is agreed.

Hope this helps.

BB_Dantesama

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BB_Dantesama

Hello guys,

Just to clarify-> copied from the rules

"It is forbidden to sell or exchange in-game content (gems, codes,accounts, vouchers etc...) for real money or digital goods. Any type of purchase/exchange/trade that isn't fully supported by the tools provided by Blue Byte is at the user's own risk"

This simply means that Blue Byte will not take action/take responsability.

Regarding screenshots, please take it when you witness a dodgy/potential dangerous transaction, as peck_ed mentioned above , also when the deal is agreed.

Hope this helps.

BB_Dantesama

---

I have paint and can quite easily photo shop anything, according to the screenshot I just made in less than 10 minutes you scammed me BB_Dantesama out of 40,000 granite. Wait you had to give me something in return that was the 1 fish I asked for on the understanding you would invite me to everyone of your lootspots for the rest of this year.

Screenshots dont work, dodgy/potentional dangerous transaction are usually answered by support saying "nothing we can do" we then try and do justice ourselves by naming the player in trade and we get "you will be banned"

So... I am a bit confused, surely BB have access to chat logs, trade history, adventure invite history..? is this again something they could do but just cant be bothered?


Lets take yesterday for example.. Yass probably one of the most known players on newfoundland was scammed out of a lootspot, she has no reason to make that up. At the time it happened it probably never even crossed her mind to screenshot the transaction which was with someone on her friend list and thought she could trust. Nothing will get done about that... crazy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BB_Dantesama

Hello guys,

Just to clarify-> copied from the rules

"It is forbidden to sell or exchange in-game content (gems, codes,accounts, vouchers etc...) for real money or digital goods. Any type of purchase/exchange/trade that isn't fully supported by the tools provided by Blue Byte is at the user's own risk"

This simply means that Blue Byte will not take action/take responsability.(1)

Regarding screenshots, please take it when you witness a dodgy/potential dangerous transaction, as peck_ed mentioned above , also when the deal is agreed.(2)

Hope this helps.

BB_Dantesama

---

first of all sorry for the slight editing on your quote did it to highlight 2 situations.

1- will not take action, you mean legally, or will not take ANY kind of action? if its second case seems to me there is some contradicting, i will asume this is only to safeguard BB from further complications, basicly im asking is are we on our own on this loots issue? as i understood we can expect some cooperation (penalize players who "scam/abuse trust on this mather) from BB in this cases IF given extra proof is given (screenshot), wich takes me to point 2.


2- and also as reply to pchamps, i think what dantesama means is, whit screenshot showing "player x" making deal agreement (buy/sell/swap lootspot in this case) they can crosscheck it whit server data to see, for example, that lootspot was given, but no retribuition was recieved (for example, to avoid someone Giving lootspot willingly and freely to someone just to frame them)

example: Player A announces on trade chat a lootswap(or buying/selling) of adventure, player B says he wants to buy/swap, player A sends invite finishes adventure and then player B stops responding, removes from friendlist and shows no intention of retributing), screenshot of player B saying he wants to buy/swap, and then stops responding once get loot....(its this whats needed?) once this checks out whit serverdata (player A gave loot, but didnt recieve retribuition), will BB penalize player B? is that it?



i hope im being clear on this, and just want clarify this issue, as it seems somewhat vague.


really apreciate your feedback here bb_dantesama, thank you! :)

If only BB could save all chat logs and all transactions for the last week or two, all this screenshooting would be unnecessary.

Ideal solution would be to turn lootspots to tradeable items, but saving chats is so much easier.

Maybe chat could be saved with special option within /report command. /report whisper <user> <reason>. This would in fact be the easiest way to implement it, because server then does not have to save any whispers, because chat history is already available in Flash player's memory.