http://forum.thesettlersonline.net/t...ood-production
If you guys don't know about the wood cutter changes on the test server, its time to learn about it and make your opinions heard on the test server!
Do it now before its too late!
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http://forum.thesettlersonline.net/t...ood-production
If you guys don't know about the wood cutter changes on the test server, its time to learn about it and make your opinions heard on the test server!
Do it now before its too late!
Excellent idea, it will be finally realistic as it should have been from the start.
Quite agree, about time this exploit was closed.
My only concern is the current bugged state of this on the Test Server, previous experience tells me this will be ignored and it will go live.
Wait until you'll see your production cut in half, even if you *never* took advantage of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PChamps
That will not bother me in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvory
Cut in half, lol you have high hopes. I got 13 of the pinewood guys, if BB get it wrong my production could be down as much as 92.3%.
Check the linked thread, it's explained quite well how it is in test now, just hope they fix it before going live. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotheus
Well. The fix is not a fix.
It actually makes it worst. It's broken.
The 3:2 ratio that you think is the ideal ratio will NOT WORK.
People are testing it on test server and it will make things worst.
Everybody is going to get screwed over.
Yup. The production with ideal ratios will definitely cut your production in half or MORE. Even if you never took advantage of the exploit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvory
People have been exploiting something that was obviously not working as intended for a long time.
Be happy for what you got, and build a balanced production line. Asking for compensation for this is plain stupid.
The: link from .net in the original post (well worth a read for info on the equally awkward behavior of Foresters) and this, nicked from the Test forum, together explain and show the problem quite tidily:
Cheers RonPope and Fexno :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fexno
Personally, and Flaming Skullheads aside, having met Titanium and implausibly few women in these Olde Worlde Islands, I can't say I'm too picky about realism but looking at it from that standpoint I certainly hope my lumberjacks aren't quite so dimwitted as to all go stumping off to a teeny stand of Trees when there are abundant forests. :rolleyes:
No-one really seems to be asking for compensation, just that the 'fix' (For something I strongly suspect works exactly as it was told to even if what it was told to do doesn't quite make sense.) make better sense than the original 'problem'. As it works now this is not the case and Woodcutters who have traditionally behaved as though they have a bit of magic about them now act like they've all fallen on their heads repeatedly and come home time and again with nothing.
More comments and suggestions can be found in the first few threads here: http://forum.tsotesting.com/search.php?searchid=133039. Since this is, thankfully, still 'testing' the threads in the Test forum are also a good place to offer feedback. Whatever ones opinion, if you'd like it heard before this goes live, it's a good idea to post there as well.
*slowly shakes head in disbelief* ~ not because I'm worried about the changes, (I'm not), but because BB managed to get something so fundamentally basic so wrong for so long.
I'm glad I recently moved my pine wood production from sector 4 where there are only 4 convenient deposits to sector 2 where there are loads.
I'm not impressed that cutters will waste cylces going for deposits that will yield nothing, & think the 'lock' (calling dibs) idea is a good one.
I have the 3:2 ratio and enough deposits that I think my guys will be able to function OK, and the thought that players have knowingly exploited the old/current behaviour and find themselves needing 20 new foresters with no space for them just makes me laugh.
Bring it on!
If this is how it works its dumb! I've always used the 3-2 ratio but if that no longer works on areas where cuters use the same trees they need to think again, I'm sure most of mine use different areas but now and then they may overlap.
I take it if the deposit is more than the cutters use they will all get a log? I have an area of 100 hardwood trees with 2 level 5 cutters and 3 level 5 planters, so that should be okay?
It won't, i'm using this ratio as well. But people have tested it on the test servers and are running out of pinewood fast with this ratio. So most likely everyone will need additional foresters OR lose a lot of production. I think it's wrong for BB to leave the bug working as it is for so long and then change it so that it changes the economy in pretty big ways; if you have used up all your licences you need to rebuild large parts of the economy. So they need to make sure they fix this in a proper way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy
Bigger tree deposits? or maybe a 1:1 ratio for foresters and wootcutters? maybe both?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragavon
Pinewood ratiosQuote:
Originally Posted by Hairy
3 foresters x 2 cutters ---> 4 sawmills
3 foresters x 2 cutters ---> 2 coking plants
Perfect ratio: 9 foresters, 6 cutters, 4 sawmills, 4 coking plants.
With that setup at level 5 you'll have a log production of about -3.5 K / 12h (yes, negative).
Do you get it now?
p.s. hopefully they'll fix this, thanks to RonEmpire who first observed and reported it.
All I've seen on the test servers is one player screaming about how this nerfs things up without providing us with the information why he thinks this.
You obviously have not been reading my postings. I'm screaming nerfs on the test server BUT I also provide detailed information on why. Please do some more research. The developers have the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotheus
I also provided a link to my detailed information the .net in the opening posting.
What baffles me more is that their attempt to 'fix' something that is fundamentally basic is wrong AGAIN and worst than intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy
Developers/Programmers apparently do not play their games otherwise they would not make such awful design mistakes.
(I'll admit as well, that I have worked at a game company on an mmo game, and fixing bugs and such. I do not play the games regularly like the normal players do. So I can understand how they can screw it up and overlook things. We just all need to keep this in mind that whatever they dish out to us is NOT always correct and we should always be testing it out before they assume its okay. People don't bother testing trivial things until it goes live.)
i personally dont mind if they change this, if they make a proper change of it.
ok, so only 1 cutter will walk away with a load, thats ok, IF they also add the "brains"to the cutters to see where they can get a full load, so if 1 cutter is already heading to a spot, and will empty it, the next cutter goes to a spot that will be full once his cycle ends. you could even take it so far that it also looks at forester times, looking if a spot will be refilled before the cutter cycle ends.
if theyre only going to change it so only the first cutter walks away with a load of wood, and the rest nothing, it will be a huge nerf or you will have to try to find a setup where chances for this are low, which will be a huge pain meaning either finding spots with ONLY 25log stocks around, which may not even exist in good spots, or spread out the cutters so they dont run to the same deposit usually. either way, a pain to change
He provided *plenty* of information, check better the linked thread here and in his posts there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotheus
If you're on test you can also see results for yourself in economy overview, knowing how many buildings you have and how your production should be.
I agree, I'm all for fixing exploit, problem is the way the change works now is much more a problem than a fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven_Prince
Exactly, for this to work you should spread all cutters and forester all over your island, making sure they all use different deposits, problem with this (other than having to move a hell lot of buildings) is that with actual production times, foresters can't keep up with cutters, so you may end up having to build 2 foresters for 1 cutter to keep your production steady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven_Prince
There is an easy solution for the entire problem. At the moment the forrester or cutter LEAVES the number of trees is deducted or increased. This will mean that if an tree has 8 logs and you will send two cutters L5 on them that the first one gets 5 logs and the second 3 logs. But it also means that if you have two cutters and 1 forrester moving towards it, that it will work for that cycle.
It's called a TEST server for a reason... If BB are stupid enough to take that 'fix' live across the other servers then they deserve all the derision they will no doubt receive. As for the folks who have been exploiting the loophole, and given that BB are obviously now planning to close it, surely now would be a good time to start preparations for when they get a fix working properly and implement it? They've reaped the benefits of the exploit and should just be thankful of the forewarning.
my 5 cents.
I think this fix is a good fix..... sure it will cause some level 50 players to no longer have the pinewood they need but in my opinion thats a good thing.
TSO has a market for a reason. If bigger players cannot make own supplies they need to buy on TO and in this way support the growth of smaller players. this builds up the whole server. I like the fact that one player cannot become selfsufficiant in all his needs and greeds..
So to my friends at level 50 or near thats gonna feel this please change your attetude towrds this and support TO for these products. the prices will not go mad forever. soon many players will make extra wood. And harmony will return.
alternatively... break down some of your goldchains and then balance again.
Thanx to BB for making it work the way it was intended.
It will cause ALL level players to no longer have the pinewood (AND hardwood) they need, not only 50!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinXII
It breaks 3:2 ratio and grouped setups. If it goes live the way it is in test now.
Even if you're only, let's say, level 25 or 30, you'll be hit by this, even if you never took advantage of it, if you nicely grouped your 3:2 foresters and cutters like many many players do (if not almost all of them).
If it only affects the people using a loophole then its a good thing, but if it messes everyones production up its stupid, I've always used the 3:2 ratio so as long as that still works I'm happy
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1077
Woodcutter changes removed from test server :D
Yes, they're listening. Thank you BB!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nethelion
I doubt we've seen the last of this, I imagine the new woodcutters are taking a break to get an intelligence upgrade.
Remember, the least wanted new additions ever, "collectibles", disappeared from the test server but have made a comeback.
I can't wait to be unable to build something because an invisible asparagus stalk has grown in the way.
I must say, the changed woodcutter behaviour would have been easier to test if the test island didn't have immovable rose beds on it.
Of course we don't :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy
The fact that they removed it though means they acknowledged it wasn't working right, now we wait for a new solution, hoping they'll listen to the good proposals people have made about it :)
Now that everybody knows how the mechanics work. They should learn to take advantage of it and adopt and adapt to the way it is now.
It will allow you to free up more space on the island to build better things. Then you guys can also join the bandwagon and complain to BB about the Nerf. So they don't bother changing it.
You guys have been screaming about how you're running out of island space and how you want to have another island. Well this wood cutter mechanic allows you to have a lot of space now. So use it! Learn it! Take advantage of it. And join the campaign in getting BB to stop messing with the woodcutter behaviors.
This mechanic BENEFITS you! So use it. The only reason to use the 3:2 is if you like the trees all over the island as decoration.
STOP BB from wasting their time on the tree huggers!
http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/...-changes/page4
I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonPope
If you take advantage of a flaw/exploit/whatever you want to call it, you lose every right to complain about it when they try to fix it.
You're also not able to verify that the intended "fix" hit massively those who always "lived by the rules", like many have done instead.
Well, there is a new version up on the testserver today and this new behaviour is removed. So BB are obviously rethinking/redesigning the changes.
Yes, that's why this matter has been brought to the attention of everyone, to make it so BB redesigned their solution, and not to encourage people to cheat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragavon
Cheating is never the good way to go.
A BB in chat on Zesus server had responded once to the wood cutter behavior as being okay and not an exploit/cheat but an optimization.
Like how they responded to the shrub removal trick.
http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/t...-removal-trick
This screams "this isn't supported, don't moan when it goes" to me.Quote:
But if anything goes wrong with those specific buildings please note that we can't help you fix it x)
+1 Part of the enjoyable challenge of this game is how to make best use of the limited space on the island. It is satisfying to be able to beat the system in ways like this and is in no way cheating. Fixing it will not make the game more playable or more enjoyable or less frustrating. Nor do I think it will bring more revenue to BB.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonPope
Fixing bugs and developing the game should be far higher on the priority list than this.
(I also think that BB are too focussed on delivering solutions to economy management - like the Economy Overview. I would prefer them to make the raw data available "legally" so that players can develop and share a variety of tools that extract and use the data in different ways. )
I think the problem with tree deposits at the moment is that there are far too many of them and they all contain a small amount of trees. No other deposit works in this way. For fish, meat, stone, marble, copper ore, iron ore, coal and gold ore there are a certain amount of defined deposits around the island with either a relatively large amount in them, or the capacity to be stocked with a large amount. We don't have small fish deposits in every inlet and all the way around the lake, nor do we have small mineral deposits in all the rocky areas; if this was the case, then we would see fishermen and miners moving from one deposit to the next in order to carry on fishing or mining and their production would vary.
If the tree deposits were rationalised so that one 'wooded area' contained one deposit rather than about 5, a forester could concentrate on planting in that area. For instance S1 currently contains about 40 tree deposits. This could be reduced to about 5 'wooded areas' and 5 separate deposits.
I like having my island covered in trees, to me there is nothing worse than an island looking like a post apocalyptic wasteland.
Hope you have good eye-sight those pesky herbs and banners are hard to spot amongst the trees :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gytha_Ogg
On subject, glad that this has been reconsidered, although I run proper ratio's this would of affected me greatly.