Thoughts on the game economy since latest changes

I liked TSO compared to other online games because it manged to keep a balance between gem buying and non gem buying players and it felt like a true free to play game should.

Since the latest changes I feel the divide between the two aforementioned player categories grew way to much.
Premium buyers set the price of loot spots now, Nords 2 only available for gems, gem gifts just ridiculously overpriced. I feel like the game is shifting from a well balanced free to play game towards a pay to win game.

Off course these are just my thoughts I'm in no way looking to start a war between gem buyers and non gem buyers .
So please don't bite my head of , but I would like to hear if you agree or disagree with me.

I cannot see that you have a point at all. Settlers online is a game where what another player does has no effect on your game. If another player spends a fortune on gems that does not have any effect whatsoever on your game.

Balance is irrelevant in a game like Settlers online. If it had been a PVP game, where your island was open to attacks from other players then I could understand your concerns. But as it is, I do not :)

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Originally Posted by sslewster

I liked TSO compared to other online games because it manged to keep a balance between gem buying and non gem buying players and it felt like a true free to play game should.

Since the latest changes I feel the divide between the two aforementioned player categories grew way to much.
Premium buyers set the price of loot spots now, Nords 2 only available for gems, gem gifts just ridiculously overpriced. I feel like the game is shifting from a well balanced free to play game towards a pay to win game.

Off course these are just my thoughts I'm in no way looking to start a war between gem buyers and non gem buyers .
So please don't bite my head of , but I would like to hear if you agree or disagree with me.

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i don't agree with this what so ever yes loot spots have gone up as well as other stuff but trade ALWAYS changes no matter what new content comes in the game or a new event happens you always get those who stick to their old prices and those who want to profiteer best thing to do is keep to your old trade prices as those trying to profiteer dont guarantee they get the sales

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Originally Posted by Dragavon

I cannot see that you have a point at all. Settlers online is a game where what another player does has no effect on your game. If another player spends a fortune on gems that does not have any effect whatsoever on your game.

Balance is irrelevant in a game like Settlers online. If it had been a PVP game, where your island was open to attacks from other players then I could understand your concerns. But as it is, I do not :)

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Totally agree with this, if 1 player buys gems and 1 dont its their personal choice on how they want to play the game.
nobody can destroy your island like other games i have played therefore it dont affect you really if 1 player has gems and 1 dont everyone gets 100 gems after 7 continuous days of play if you dont want to buy them save them ones up instead.

It's only a week "since latest changes", so prices haven't had a chance to... aherm, Settle.

The prices probably went up because players were using the free premium days. Once those have been used and it is only people who have bought premium days, I think that trading will settle down again. Trade office prices always change when something new arrives, and this is no exception.

I've seen this allegation before; that it was premium players that pushed the prices up. I'd like to see some evidence. Seems to me it's sellers that control prices.

"Hmm I'd really like to pay more for something than everyone else" said no-one, ever!

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Originally Posted by sslewster

I liked TSO compared to other online games because it manged to keep a balance between gem buying and non gem buying players and it felt like a true free to play game should.

Since the latest changes I feel the divide between the two aforementioned player categories grew way to much.
Premium buyers set the price of loot spots now, Nords 2 only available for gems, gem gifts just ridiculously overpriced. I feel like the game is shifting from a well balanced free to play game towards a pay to win game.

Off course these are just my thoughts I'm in no way looking to start a war between gem buyers and non gem buyers .
So please don't bite my head of , but I would like to hear if you agree or disagree with me.

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In principle I have to agree with this, but only in principle, and I remember one of BB's own diary's making some comment on how this `feeling' set them and TSO apart from other free online games, but these changes as outlined by sslewster have IMO lost sight of this to a degree, the gap has definitely widened. There will be those racing ahead doing all the new stuff and getting all the new buildings with the help of `gems', and at the other end there will be those playing for free and feeling a little left out as this way is getting slower and slower. As long as I've been playing its always been like this though and whilst it is still down to personal choice , I do think that subliminal arm twisting to part you from your cash is much stronger now.
I do also agree that in principle that whether you are a gem buyer or non gem buyer there is no Direct influence on how you as an individual play the game as ultimately your island is kept in isolation. However in practice these changes have and will change how the game is played in ALL interaction of players with players ( Trade Office and Guilds ). All changes to the game have had there effect in these area's, and there will be those that like them and those that don't, those that adapt and those that whine and those that quit. Over time though one thing is pretty consistent, Once the novelty of new content wares off, Or newer content is added and the availability of any resource increases...the price drops ( irrelevant as to whether it was gem bought or not) so if your patient the fairytale stuff will be `free player affordable' at some point in the future, especially when those players need to save all those troops for PVP. (SLT may go the way of SOTV ;) )

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Originally Posted by Jim_B

I've seen this allegation before; that it was premium players that pushed the prices up. I'd like to see some evidence. Seems to me it's sellers that control prices.

"Hmm I'd really like to pay more for something than everyone else" said no-one, ever!

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Sellers don't control prices, they may have the goods and ask what price they like, but if it don't sell it's worth nothing. If some players are prepared to pay the inflated prices, more fool them.

Seller A sets a price based on nothing other than a desire for more coins - Seller B sees seller A's price and thinks "yeah me too". Seller C sells for usual price and his goods sell out quickly. Sellers A and B still have goods to sell. Limit of resources forces buyers to eventually accept higher prices - especially as sellers C - Z have now jumped on the bandwagon.

Sellers set prices.

My thoughts as a gem buyer....

The recent changes have greatly changed the game and in my opinion for the worse because of a longer term issue.

I have always bought gems, not so much recently but pretty much since the beginning and at one stage I was a monthly contributor to the BB Dev and Support team through my purchases. Buying these gems has given me a huge boost in terms of getting to L50 in August 2012 and subsequently pushing my island to L5 including the more expensive stuff like Nobles, science buildings etc.

Historically I sold gems (or gem giftable stuff) during the closed beta for approximately 3-4coins per gem, then when we went open beta I have always sold gems in guild for 4coins per gem and outside guild for between 4.5 and 6coins per gem. These prices have been pretty steady all the way through apart from occasionally during events when footballs, pumpkins and easter eggs have caused gem prices to increase for short periods of time.

Now I believe gem prices are around the 10coin plus level. Yes people try to buy for less and they always will in smaller quantities but for the high level players that have lots of coin they will always be willing to pay 10coins per gem to get say 1k - 5k gems quickly to enable them to buy Battle Hardened Generals, 10 Building License Packs and other such stuff that has never been giftable.

I have even been approached by players recently who have said 'hey I have 9k gems and need 20k in total for a gem pit, will you sell me 11k gems? I am willing to pay 10coins each for high numbers...'

A friend with gem pits sold over 10k gems in less than 2 weeks. That's 100k in coin. Why would he sell for 50k coins if without even trying he can get double that?

So in my opinion gem buyers that wish to sell their gems will easily get 10coins plus per gem for the high quantities and many high level players or gold farmers / active traders that wish to play for free will easily pay these prices.



So why do I thing this is bad for the long term game?

1. Most high level players have benefited from buying the Shop Noble Deeds which don't use a building license. This enables them to use their building licenses to concentrate on developing their economy rather than developing their military troops.
2. Recent players coming into the game (or future players) will find it harder to buy Noble Deeds on Trade Tab or Trade Office as gem buyers will sell gems for 10c pushing the price of Noble Deeds to 1k coin which is much harder for new developing players to fund.
3. The same scenario will occur for other shop items such as silos which many players (including me) love.
4. This could result in a vicious circle whereby without fresh players the game withers and dies a slow lingering collapse.

Of course the easy answer is that gem costs will re-settle but I honestly don't see that happening. A small number of high level players with plenty of gold will continue to support the higher cost of gems to create a self sustaining economy whilst the lower level players get less support in establishing their economy.

I for one wont be selling my gems anytime soon or cheaper than the current market can sustain as that would be foolish. So in turn if I do sell gems again then I am probably contributing to the longer term demise of the game :confused:

Buyers AND sellers set prices depending on supply and demand ( either in real terms or implied), neither control the market they may only benefit or lose at the time of the trade, and this will be subjective to the value of the trade to either party both at the time of the trade or later with hindsight ;)

It is also a fact that as a server gets more mature more players produce more coins, so the relative value of coins go down, as there are simply more coins to go around. It is a well known phenomenom called inflation :)

I actually like the new changes:) - I think the development we have seen in the last few months with more than a doubling of the gem log-in bonus, the new Fairy tale adv, the addition of premium and tradeability of gems have inserted new life into the game.

I'm not saying that I think all of the updates are fantastic, but I do like the new dynamic.

Trade and economy has always fluctuated... In my 1st few months of playing the game I could sell a stack of 400 marble for 90gc, I could by a gem noble house for 150-250gc in trade. Playing a VtV to get crossbows, well - that VtV would cost around 5-600gc from trade, and it would take 3 of us joining together 2-3 days to play it, we had to wait for longbows to be made, generals to recover etc etc. If I was unfortunate enough to loose some soldiers, it would cost me 1gc per sword to replace them.

Things change...

With a large proportion of players having reached high levels, resource prices have dropped - making this cheaper for new players. Gem prices have gone up, a disadvantage to new players. However, I'd expect that things like noble's will become cheaper with time as high level players replace their noble's with the new 500 residence (may be this does not make sense from an "economic" perspective, but what's the point of doing those Fairytale adventures if you're not gonna use the beans...)

Some cannot afford to buy gems, some choose not to, other choose to buy them... The game can still be played by all. As has been mentioned above, the main advantage gem's give you is time, which is fine by me. I think it's great that the game is supported by people that can afford it/choose to, without them this game would have ended up in the big MMO graveyard along with plenty of others, and I see no reason to whinge about the people that are part of the reason why we can still play this game, for free if we choose to. Nor do I see any reason to complain about gem prices going up; If spending hard cash on this game is unfeasible for myself, then I cannot see that I should be able to dictate the "value" of the gems in game for those that do buy them.

If buying lootspots have become too expensive for you, then do an adventure yourself, loose some troops and sell the lootspots to those that are buying or swap with friends...

I see Gem prices as only getting more expensive. Due to the fact Gem’s were not tradable till recently I think there will be those with a large volume of Gems in storage waiting to buy new things when they come out like as a bad example the nords2. Gem pits will only have helped with this. So right now there is a larger supply available since the dam has only just broken. But once the current supply of gems has been sold and more importantly used to buy things from the shop which they previously were not doing, instead just collecting and doing nothing, then Gem sellers will become rarer, especially in larger quantities and push the price up further. Combine that with a constant demand now for lots of free to play players wanting to buy 7-30 day premium tokens on a constantly consuming basis and all newly brought and gained gems will get pumped back into sustaining these accounts with this gem sinking feature. Thus current gem supply will shrink and demand will significantly outweigh the gem production of the server and those spending real cash to buy more gems. Those that do buy more gems will also want to make as much gold coin as they can from their real world purchases so they will keep pushing for the price to go up. Least that’s how I think things will go.

Seems we wanted change and we got it
we wanted more content and we are getting that too
we want pvp , well some of us want pvp, that is apparently available to some of the servers, and we'll get that too eventually
there's going to be the occasional events to get stuck into

coming into the forum only occasionaly it seemed to be common to see someone saying that they were leaving the game as it was boring, and for me bouncing up through the levels I must admit that I wasn't looking forward to arriving at L50 with the quests running out and only the same old advs to do.
blimey how many victors and outlaws could I do before also wandering off to find a new game to play ? even the idea of doing piles of BK's didn't really stir me.

we've got this new gem thingie going on at the moment and that'll sort out too
inflation ?
prices rise and fall
a while back we could buy a stack of fish for a few coins now those fish have real value and are worth farming along with other items.
hell look at what's happened to bow prices.
the fairytale advs need piles of bows and swords so there's more room for some folk to earn some gc there too.
the fairytale castle may not be everyones ideal but the upgrading of those castles that are built will change prices of items too.

I have to say I like how the game is becoming wider, I can go back and play the "ordinary" advs or play the tailors, there's gc to chase down.
there's people to chat with and we still help each other along as best we can.

perhaps some more people will leave because they don't like these changes, that's ok too, as there are still new people joining the game all the time.
I was chatting with a new L16 player yesterday who was trying sort out how to optimise her island, LOL

and looking back up this page I agree with Bluefairy, the game seems to have a new dynamic about it that was seeming to be lost.