[Guide] DT-Modification : Roaring Bull adventure

This is call Modification so I did use information from other guide to make this

This guide required:
-----1 Major gen, 1Vet gen and 4 normal gen-------or --------2 Vet gen and 4 normal gen
-----Cannon
-----No lagging
-----No invitation during blocking WT1 and WT2

ADDITION WT3: using MMA gen
General B: MMA:1R
General C: MJ :126R 1B 1Lb 1K 1C 1M 1S 1E 137Xbow
OR
General B: MMA :90R or 70B
General C: VET :106R 1B 1Lb 1K 1C 1M 1S 1E 137Xbow


This is quite complicate guide, need a lot of practice, I have NOT fail single block yet, unless i make mistake
However if u not wish to take challenge, feel free to use other guide below
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8092/x2gc.png
http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/t...l=1#post224621



Correction
WT1: general B(bock): 1R 94S 105E
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/406/cy8w.png
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/447/yxhj.png

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7924/06dt.png
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2440/5se4.png

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2443/1osy.png
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/220/0z3l.png

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/2084/nf84.png

---------------------------------------------------------The END------------------------------------------------------







Loot:
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/727/rx6i.png

Do not use this guide!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IndianKid

Do not use this guide!

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Why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IndianKid

Do not use this guide!

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it is hard block, very easy to fail, so only recommended for player want the challenge

1 Elite 94 Soldier 105 Elite in the second picture? How's that gonna work out?

Edit: You mean 1 M (Militia!) 94 S 105 E :)

This guide is VERY dangerous!

Even though it worked for me like 3 times in a row, today the following happened:

I did a perfect block on the 2nd witch tower and I did nothing wrong - the timing was absolutely perfect, the general B was just starting the attack when the Major entered the Red Zone, about 100 milliseconds earlier and he would have been intercepted - yet general B ended his battle before the Major, costing me 99 Elites and 50 Cavalry ...

You have indeed a chance too lose the block

In over 99.8% of the cases the block will last 100 seconds (4 rounds victory + 5 rounds defeat)
In almost 0.2% of the cases the block will last 120 seconds (5 rounds victory)

BUT there is a chance (<0.01%) that your block will only last 80 seconds. (4 rounds defeat)

Your mayor will need 60 to 80 seconds to defeat the witchtower.
So in worst case scenario he would have to start attacking the witchtower when general B starts his attack, which is impossible since you will still need to cross the "red area"

So while it is easy to determine that a chance of less then 0.01% is neglectable, however in a block this is never a good idea.
Of course as a player you can knowingly take the chance and hope for the best.

Please note that guidemakers are human and can make mistakes just as easily as you can, so it is always advisable to check the setups in a combat simulator

Sanii, from the US server, is the author of this guide
in his doc you can find the block videos https://docs.google.com/presentation....g39c1e33d_3_0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fexno

You have indeed a chance too lose the block

In over 99.8% of the cases the block will last 100 seconds (4 rounds victory + 5 rounds defeat)
In almost 0.2% of the cases the block will last 120 seconds (5 rounds victory)

BUT there is a chance (<0.01%) that your block will only last 80 seconds. (4 rounds defeat)

Your veteran will need 50 to 70 seconds to defeat the witchtower.
So in worst case scenario you only have 10 seconds (3 flags) of walk time which is already too short to cross the red area.
(don't forget you also have to send your veteran to the camp, so the actual remaining walk time is even shorter)

So while it is easy to determine that a chance of less then 0.01% is neglectable, however in a block this is never a good idea.
Of course as a player you can knowingly take the chance and hope for the best.

Please note that guidemakers are human and can make mistakes just as easily as you can, so it is always advisable to check the setups in a combat simulator

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50 to 70????

my vet's(major) always need 110-130 seconds

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corona88

50 to 70????

my vet's(major) always need 110-130 seconds

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While I did forget the 10 seconds needed to complete the round, a major (or vet) with cannons only needs 60 to 80 seconds to defeat a witchtower from the moment his attack starts.

The times you mention are close to the time needed for a major (or vet) without cannons, but that would be 90 to 130 seconds (assuming only 1 round is needed to defeat the enemy units)

I updated the above post to prevent confusion :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharpielein

This guide is VERY dangerous!

Even though it worked for me like 3 times in a row, today the following happened:

I did a perfect block on the 2nd witch tower and I did nothing wrong - the timing was absolutely perfect, the general B was just starting the attack when the Major entered the Red Zone, about 100 milliseconds earlier and he would have been intercepted - yet general B ended his battle before the Major, costing me 99 Elites and 50 Cavalry ...

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I agree this is the dangerous,

Just let u know i never fail once until now unless i assign wrong troop.
Also do u have 1LB and 1A assign in major gen? it's dose help to reduce the time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duong_TonThat

I agree this is the dangerous,

Just let u know i never fail once until now unless i assign wrong troop.
Also do u have 1LB and 1A assign in major gen? it's dose help to reduce the time

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Totally disagree about the fact that this is dangerous.

I've proposed this block quite long ago here: http://forum.thesettlersonline.com/t...l=1#post251233

And it is absolutely safe, at least to me.

Considering the probability of the major to lose ALL R and B and considering the probability where the block on both camps stands 100 seconds, there still are about 10 seconds of margin for the major to take down the tower.

The only dangerous case happens when one of the two blocks does NOT result in a victory, which is, however, insanely rare considering that there seriously is a probability UNDER the 1% of these blocks to fails. If these are considered risky blocks, every block proposed by tage must be considered dangerous then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duong_TonThat

I agree this is the dangerous,

Just let u know i never fail once until now unless i assign wrong troop.
Also do u have 1LB and 1A assign in major gen? it's dose help to reduce the time

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I did not mean the block is dangerous, this block i do more than 100times, never FAIL

The danger I'm taking about, is lagging or assign wrong troop or attack wrong camp, it's happen to me several time,

SO CHECK, and double check before attack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duong_TonThat

I agree this is the dangerous,
Just let u know i never fail once until now unless i assign wrong troop.
Also do u have 1LB and 1A assign in major gen? it's dose help to reduce the time

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DT,
I always double-check and when I assign the wrong troops (which occasionally happens) I don't complain because I know what the root cause is.

There is a statistically insignificant chance of failure in the block.
To use an analogy: Just because you don't hit the jackpot 1000 times in the lottery doesn't mean there is no jackpot.

Statistically, the block turns sour about 1 in 400 or so, but it still can happen.
Many blocks on other adventures which have a zero percent chance of turning sour - and "can't happen" is a world's difference from "happens, though very rarely".

I have done over 40 RB myself, and I know when I mess up. But this isn't about messing up, this is about statistics.

The design permits inherent failure, that's a note of caution.
It's not prohibitive, though: if you sell the lootspots, you recoup the losses anyway. Just lessens the profits.

attack on last camp you just can go single Major with 210rec 60 cannon. + 1Rec block xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tridom

attack on last camp you just can go single Major with 210rec 60 cannon. + 1Rec block xD

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Most player doing RB know it. Thanks. But 1R block required very accuracy.

With the block i provide can varies within 3flag

Addition update for MMA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bri0sheje

The only dangerous case happens when one of the two blocks does NOT result in a victory, which is, however, insanely rare considering that there seriously is a probability UNDER the 1% of these blocks to fails. If these are considered risky blocks, every block proposed by tage must be considered dangerous then.

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There's a combined chance of slightly under 0.2% that this block fails as only one of the conditions have to be fulfilled the probabilities of each is summed.

I consider any and all blocks where there is even a single outcome out of 5000 simulations as risky. I do not make guides using risky blocks. Tweak it until there is no chance of failure at all, or work out something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saturnus72

There's a combined chance of slightly under 0.2% that this block fails as only one of the conditions have to be fulfilled the probabilities of each is summed.

I consider any and all blocks where there is even a single outcome out of 5000 simulations as risky. I do not make guides using risky blocks. Tweak it until there is no chance of failure at all, or work out something else.

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The block is not 100% safe but it's not consider risky
Using this http://www.settlersonlinetools.com/en/combat_simulator/ show that win chance is 96-100% which lead to average 98%
As bri0sheje said u fail the block if u loss(less than 2% chance).

According to the chance if u do 100adv u fail 2 (THIS IS NOT TRUE)
I do more than 500 rb, have not fail yet.
This also not mean i wont fail but i believe the 2% chance of loss is based on the minimal attack of ur troop. Mean it's very rare to loss(or fail)

NOTE: this is not encourage u to do both block, just the discussion, The fact of fail chance does exit. feel free to skip the first block

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharpielein

1 Elite 94 Soldier 105 Elite in the second picture? How's that gonna work out?

Edit: You mean 1 M (Militia!) 94 S 105 E :)

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Yes 1R or 1M
bc i cant change the pic anymore,
correction is updated on top

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duong_TonThat

The block is not 100% safe but it's not consider risky
Using this http://www.settlersonlinetools.com/en/combat_simulator/ show that win chance is 96-100% which lead to average 98%
As bri0sheje said u fail the block if u loss(less than 2% chance).

According to the chance if u do 100adv u fail 2 (THIS IS NOT TRUE)
I do more than 500 rb, have not fail yet.
This also not mean i wont fail but i believe the 2% chance of loss is based on the minimal attack of ur troop. Mean it's very rare to loss(or fail)

NOTE: this is not encourage u to do both block, just the discussion, The fact of fail chance does exit. feel free to skip the first block

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As I wrote. There's a slightly under 0.2% chance that it will fail. That means on average 1 in roughly 500 will fail. I consider that risky.

Risky to me means there is a chance, no matter how small, that the block will fail. A safe block is to me one that does not have any chance of failing (barring a user set up and/or server failure naturally).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saturnus72

As I wrote. There's a slightly under 0.2% chance that it will fail. That means on average 1 in roughly 500 will fail. I consider that risky.

Risky to me means there is a chance, no matter how small, that the block will fail. A safe block is to me one that does not have any chance of failing (barring a user set up and/or server failure naturally).

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if that is ur quote then most of double/triple block provide from most the guide is consider risky (except SA adv)
Most of single block is safe, but they didn't save much for the unit loss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felipez

Sanii, from the US server, is the author of this guide
in his doc you can find the block videos https://docs.google.com/presentation....g39c1e33d_3_0

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Just to clarified this is my guide (information from Sanii) . I did use the same multi way to block from the link u show but method how to attack is different and set up been modified as well
Also the last block from WT3 is not from any other guide

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corona88

50 to 70????

my vet's(major) always need 110-130 seconds

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I dont know where u guy get the information from, it's not 50-70s, or 110-130s either and also u can NOT have varies either , bc this is 100% win with 1round attack
WT2: If the block is perfect timing u will have 40s walking start from blocking general B, 55s to kill the witch tower (with cannon)

NOTE: TRUE that every round take 20s but for normal gen to take down the camp take more than 20s (i believe min of 30s), I still don't know where u guy information from,

WT2
First block: 100second (minimum 4rounds or 80s + 20s take down camp which i believe more) --- minus---- 95second (40s of walking distance + 55s to take down wt)
Second block: is the same but less walking distance

Either way, u will have minimum of 5second different for lagging.

Important: if u don't have cannon 90% will fail

This information was gathered by using your troop setups in Asipak's onlin combat simulator

Block (A+B) on the camp to the left of WT2
The 1r block influences the following round block since it kills 1 cultist.
So the block 1r followed by 99E 93C 8A on the camp to the left of WT2 will result in
http://settlersonlinesimulator.com/d...5-279-21_3-5-0
link to simulator result
Open the spoiler for an explanation of the graph (in order of block duration):

Spoiler

• 1/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in defeat (4*20s=80s)
• 5/2200 chance of lasting 3 rounds and ending in victory (3*20s+40s for demolishing=100s)
• 21/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in defeat (5*20s=100s)
• 1894/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in victory (4*20s+40s for demolishing=120s)
• 279/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in victory (5*20s+40s for demolishing=140s)
  
  The time needed for demolishing a camp depends on the amount (and type) of troops left, but in this case it should always be 40 seconds for a normal general

Block (C) on the camp to the right of WT2
1B 129C 70C
http://settlersonlinesimulator.com/d...25_3-1-0_8-0-1
link to simulator
Open the spoiler for an explanation of the graph (in order of block duration):

Spoiler

• 2/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in defeat (4*20s=80s)
• 1/2200 chance of lasting 3 rounds and ending in victory (3*20s+40s for demolishing=100s)
• 21/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in defeat (5*20s=100s)
• 1251/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in victory (4*20s+40s for demolishing=120s)
• 25/2200 chance of lasting 6 rounds and ending in defeat (6*20s=120s)
• 762/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in victory (5*20s+40s for demolishing=140s)
• 15/2200 chance of lasting 7 rounds and ending in defeat (7*20s=140s)
• 99/2200 chance of lasting 6 rounds and ending in victory (6*20s+40s for demolishing=160s)
• 1/2200 chance of lasting 8 rounds and ending in defeat (8*20s=160s)
• 23/2200 chance of lasting 7 rounds and ending in victory (7*20s+40s for demolishing=180s)
  
  The time needed for demolishing a camp depends on the amount (and type) of troops left, but in this case it should always be 40 seconds for a normal general

So in worst case scenario both blocks only last 80s.

Veteran on WT2
40R 125B 1LB 1A 83K (takes 50 to 70s for a veteran general)
link to simulator, this shows the destruction time as well (scroll down)
So in worst case scenario the veteran only has 10s of walking time after block B starts his fight (since you said the veteran needs 40s of walking, this will fail)

Major on WT2
108R 52B 1LB 1A 108K (takes 50 to 90s for a major general)
link to simulator, this shows the destruction time as well (scroll down)
So in worst case scenario the veteran should start his fight 10 seconds before block B starts his fight (impossible)
There is also tiny chance to lose cannoneers


Conclusion
I do agree it is very likely the blocks will work, but there is a small (tiny) chance it will fail

This is clearly inspired from Sanii's guide.

Best option for WT2 is to use MMA. I've been doing RBs following Sanii's guide and if you're sticking to sending the gens after the battle drums, you'll be fine.
I send for WT2 the MMA with 50R 95B 1LB 1XB 73K; 40-50 sec.
I do recommend using the 2 additional generals from Sanii's guide, to help timing the sends. A fixed position of one of the previous generals or counting to x secs could be unreliable.

The block failed once, mistake on my end, sent the blocking gen for the camp in the right side of tower just a bit late. He should have entered the area of influence of the camp in the right, but got intercepted by the first camp when the 1R attack finished, which is obvious. At that point, I canceled the adventure. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Strainezu

This is clearly inspired from Sanii's guide.

I do recommend using the 2 additional generals from Sanii's guide, to help timing the sends. A fixed position of one of the previous generals or counting to x secs could be unreliable.

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True counting sec is not reliable, but i found using x from general B is work better
Using 2 gen count down required multi task. while already complicate block, also using gen count down seem no different from count sec to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fexno

This information was gathered by using your troop setups in Asipak's onlin combat simulator

Block (A+B) on the camp to the left of WT2
The 1r block influences the following round block since it kills 1 cultist.
So the block 1r followed by 99E 93C 8A on the camp to the left of WT2 will result in
http://settlersonlinesimulator.com/d...5-279-21_3-5-0
link to simulator result
Open the spoiler for an explanation of the graph (in order of block duration):

Spoiler

• 1/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in defeat (4*20s=80s)
• 5/2200 chance of lasting 3 rounds and ending in victory (3*20s+40s for demolishing=100s)
• 21/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in defeat (5*20s=100s)
• 1894/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in victory (4*20s+40s for demolishing=120s)
• 279/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in victory (5*20s+40s for demolishing=140s)
  
  The time needed for demolishing a camp depends on the amount (and type) of troops left, but in this case it should always be 40 seconds for a normal general

Block (C) on the camp to the right of WT2
1B 129C 70C
http://settlersonlinesimulator.com/d...25_3-1-0_8-0-1
link to simulator
Open the spoiler for an explanation of the graph (in order of block duration):

Spoiler

• 2/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in defeat (4*20s=80s)
• 1/2200 chance of lasting 3 rounds and ending in victory (3*20s+40s for demolishing=100s)
• 21/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in defeat (5*20s=100s)
• 1251/2200 chance of lasting 4 rounds and ending in victory (4*20s+40s for demolishing=120s)
• 25/2200 chance of lasting 6 rounds and ending in defeat (6*20s=120s)
• 762/2200 chance of lasting 5 rounds and ending in victory (5*20s+40s for demolishing=140s)
• 15/2200 chance of lasting 7 rounds and ending in defeat (7*20s=140s)
• 99/2200 chance of lasting 6 rounds and ending in victory (6*20s+40s for demolishing=160s)
• 1/2200 chance of lasting 8 rounds and ending in defeat (8*20s=160s)
• 23/2200 chance of lasting 7 rounds and ending in victory (7*20s+40s for demolishing=180s)
  
  The time needed for demolishing a camp depends on the amount (and type) of troops left, but in this case it should always be 40 seconds for a normal general

So in worst case scenario both blocks only last 80s.

Veteran on WT2
40R 125B 1LB 1A 83K (takes 50 to 70s for a veteran general)
link to simulator, this shows the destruction time as well (scroll down)
So in worst case scenario the veteran only has 10s of walking time after block B starts his fight (since you said the veteran needs 40s of walking, this will fail)

Major on WT2
108R 52B 1LB 1A 108K (takes 50 to 90s for a major general)
link to simulator, this shows the destruction time as well (scroll down)
So in worst case scenario the veteran should start his fight 10 seconds before block B starts his fight (impossible)
There is also tiny chance to lose cannoneers


Conclusion
I do agree it is very likely the blocks will work, but there is a small (tiny) chance it will fail

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BIG thanks. This make more scene to me now