Guild Quests need to be changed

I doubt this will ever be acted upon but here goes.

When the new pvp and balancing took place several adventures were removed from the adventure section of the market. Some of these adventures appear as guild quests so it is now very hard for people to complete the GQ. As an example the Big City Life quest requires players of lvl 36-45 to complete Island of the pirates. I realise that the rewards from guild quests depend on the active members in the guild but even with a large guild we are only getting 119 guild coins reward for an adventure that now costs 745 guild coins to buy.

Am I missing something or is this just another way of making players spend gems?
Just so you are aware of the correct meaning of balance here is a dictionary definition... A harmonious or satisfying arrangement or proportion of parts or elements, as in a design.

My suggestion is either to make the adventures available at a reasonable price again or remove them from GQ.

I agree.
I stocked up on IOP when I found out they were disappearing from the shop so I could give them to guildies for the GQs; but even with a relatively small guild, the officers and I are going to run out pretty soon. They just need to switch it out for something like Horseback or WOTS that are still available for MFs from the merchant. It seems a pretty logical and easy fix...!

I also bought a few before the change but as you say they will not last long. To be honest the guild quests are becomming a tiresome dailt grind as they keep resetting it so we get the same ones over and over again. Maybe a little time spent making new quests and fixing all the bugs we keep complaining about instead of messing about with the rest of the game would be a good idea.

I think BB is planing to change GQ's, not sure though, would be nice to have some confirmation on whether GQ's will be changed or not from BB, when the holidays are over.

I cancel all guild quests with IOTP in it.

I agree. it is causing issues with our guild members.

Paying weapons is now a big deal too - especially dama swords and cannons - just to get a handful of guild coins back. The whole guild quest system has been broken and basically my guild doesn't bother anymore. Members can do the quest if they want, but they know it will be cancelled if incomplete after 2 days.

Another difficult GQ is Nords (Winter may come).
The average drop rate for a long search is about 3%. So thats 33 long searches to get 1 Nord or1 every 66 days for a tavern explorer.

Problem is we seem to get it at almost once a week :-(.

Even with all 3 tavern explorers out searching and Guildies swappping ls's there is no way we can do the GQ without spending gems to either buy gem explorers or completing the GQ with gems.

did u actually think bb did the rebalancing for the benefit of players?...lol
the rebalancing was done to try and increase gem sale nothing else....if you thought otherwise then...oh well....

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Originally Posted by Bugglesx

Another difficult GQ is Nords (Winter may come).
The average drop rate for a long search is about 3%. So thats 33 long searches to get 1 Nord or1 every 66 days for a tavern explorer.

Problem is we seem to get it at almost once a week :-(.

Even with all 3 tavern explorers out searching and Guildies swappping ls's there is no way we can do the GQ without spending gems to either buy gem explorers or completing the GQ with gems.

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It seems like there's an (atleast slightly) increased chance to get Nords from the Mysterious Adventure Box.

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Originally Posted by ATHTHEMANIAC

did u actually think bb did the rebalancing for the benefit of players?...lol
the rebalancing was done to try and increase gem sale nothing else....if you thought otherwise then...oh well....

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+1

The game is imbalanced beyond proportion. The merchant is a sham. The so called wholesale section sells 500 stones for 375 gems! are you kidding! Why is this item still there? Of course only newbies would buy it and empty their pocket of gems before they realize their value. The rest of the shop is no different, just designed for more experienced players. If you are willing to research enough you can get around the traps. Frankly I dont have the time to enjoy the game and to get around BB traps. So I stick to the simple things and understand that the game is rigged. In fact, writing this post knowing it disappears into ether is already more than what I should be doing :-)

about the adventures, isnt it now just like it used to be when it was not possible to produce map fragments?

ive always suggested to preselect guild quests..

Completely agree with all comments so far. The GQ system at the moment is absurd. Its not actually worth completing alot of them.

If you take IOTP out of shop dont give it as a Quest to do in GQ also stop giving us the pay cannons quest, its completely ridiculous especially now we dont actually get cannons in loot anymore.

As a Guild we have been cancelling these ones becuase although several members stocked up on various adventures prior to the changes not everyone did, and eventually we will run out of them therefore we are back to square one.

How about the latest one i got for gq, its the dark priests, it dosnt even appear in the shop anymore, how the .... are you supposed do it ?. What, hope your explorer might one month actual find it, might be in a long time waiting for it. oh i forgot to mention IOP is a stupid price as well.

Has there been any word on this? I haven't noticed any BB announcements, and wondered if anyone else had...?

I hadn't even thought about the weapons donations, Jim_B, that's a very good point - we'd all stocked up on those too before they disappeared so haven't really noticed with donations, but as with the adventures, the stockpiles will only last so long! (Especially if they push back the jumping gens fix any further and my elites and cannoneers keep leaping forward to their doom! ;) )

I did also see someone the other day who was stuck early-on as one of the low-level quests is to buy IOTP and DP from the merchant with MFs which, of course, you can't do any more! So they took the advs out but didn't update any of the quests that go with them...

Admittedly it's not a game-breaker, but it adds to other frustrations.

Well, you look at iotp.

Since cannons were removed from loot, cannon prices soared to 8 coins a piece already (at least on northisle), and they will rise.
There's a gq requiring payment of 30 cannons.

Cannons require 36 Saltpeter to produce (unbuffed). You get maybe 200 Saltpeter from Epic Adventures. So, your reward for 1 Epic Adventure is enough to produce 6 Cannons, so you need to complete (given a 1-in-4 chance for saltpeter) 24 epic adventures ---- TO COMPLETE A GUILD QUEST!
Sorry, this is simply beyond reasonable.


In effect, the current situation completely screws players in smaller guilds out of their rewards, so being in a small guild is pretty much worse than not being in a guild at all.
In large guilds (50+ members), GQ's are not that bad. Getting 120+ guild coins for 300-3000 coins is only a major loss, not a complete screwover. In any case, is it so bad if gc's are more valuable?

Then again, prices in the guild market are a complete joke.
Just calculate: Nords costs nearly 2000 Guild Coins. For a player in a 20-person guild, it takes 1 GQ to get like 100 Guild Coins. So, every 20 days (assuming daily complet) you can buy a single Nords. But you were probably requested to complete Nords 3x to obtain this reward.

Just asking BB employees: Would you pay $2000 to obtain $700? If so, please contact me. If not, please understand the current reward system is broken.

heres an idea: Why dont Guilds just cancel those Guild quests that require you to do dark priests and IOTP. We have done that until further notice, or until BB changes it and it works fine. Its completely unfair to ask low level to do a GQ which they are unable to do. So speak to the Guild leaders and see if they can change it.

We are cancelling them (we let them run for a couple of days then cancel them, so people can get the extra few gcs if they want) but we end up having to cancel a lot of GQs because of the changes and it would be nice to have the system revisited and changed to reflect the changes in the game.

We don't get the 'payout' if we cancel the GQ, so it'd be nice to not have to keep cancelling them because they require advs that are no longer available to buy or that cost 5 times the reward.

As I said, it's not a game-breaker, but it really is frustrating.

we normally run it incase people want to do it and claim individual Guild coins..but If theres a waiting Quest following day its gets cancelled then. I do agree its very annoying. My Guildie contacted BB about changing it and they got back to her saying they are "looking into it" so not sure what that means and when changes will happen. uptil then its good idea to just cancel.

My guild [80 friends] manages all GQ within two days - or we kick a couple if we need - we rarely have to do this.

As for the nonsense about weapons, build your weapon chains - clearly all friends will need them and the quests to produce from them are level appropriate.

We help out friends with weapons - we don't expect them to be run at low upgrade levels - but a L48 player aught to be able to produce carriages etc...

Overall, the changes are positive for forging self reliance of friends - Well done BB :)

EWiggin you seem to have missed the point of the post. The point is that the current system is broken and unbalanced where quests cost more than they reward. Yes you can take your approach where you insist everyone completes everything at top speed under threat of booting but have you actually stopped and looked at what you are doing and why?

High levels can produce carriages etc but why would they want to invest a lot of time obtaining saltpetre to make cannons to then throw it away for guild coins that are worth much less?

Why has the game been bled dry of pirates and dark priests yet the guild quests stay the same?

The current guild quests force people through a number of awkward hoops but the end goal is not worth it. For the majority of the time there's nothing worthwhile buying for guild coins, the quests aren't worthwhile and all they do is make discord in guilds as someone has to take responsibility for nagging people to do something largely fruitless.

There have not been any changes to guild quests in a long time and they are overdue as Procell says. BB has made changes but only done half of the job, when is the other half being done?

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Originally Posted by EWiggin

My guild [80 friends] manages all GQ within two days - or we kick a couple if we need - we rarely have to do this.

As for the nonsense about weapons, build your weapon chains - clearly all friends will need them and the quests to produce from them are level appropriate.

We help out friends with weapons - we don't expect them to be run at low upgrade levels - but a L48 player aught to be able to produce carriages etc...

Overall, the changes are positive for forging self reliance of friends - Well done BB :)

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you're missing the point.

One can produce damas, carriages etc... but why would you delete, sorry *donate* them and receive a handful of star coins that are a tiny fraction of their new trade value? If you were to sell those weapons in trade you could buy back 10x the number of guild coins with the proceeds. This is what my guild members are saying to me and it is very hard to offer a counter argument.

As a guild leader, the only way I can see now to maintain 'the self reliance of friends' is to cancel all but the simplest guild quests. It is a divisive system that is destroying guilds' atmosphere - "Who hasn't done their GQ?", "Why haven't you done your GQ?" etc...

The cameraderie in guild is far more important to me than a handful of coins ands I cannot boot my friends who are simply objecting to an aspect of the game that has become unbalanced.

I think you all missed the point before I ever did! The point of GQ was never reward (It never added up to profit for all).

The point of GQ is to increase cameraderie and participation over and above any perceived material gain!

I'm certainly not saying that BB does not need to look at the current content - but some of you may need to look at the reason why you do GQ at all...

The Cambridge dictionary defines a quest as: "a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult". It does not talk of reward or profit - often the only reward would be completion of a quest.

Baggis - you talk about top speed with threat of booting - but we rarely kick - and when we do, we invite back at the same time. Everyone understands the participation thing and that if it were to happen to them, it would be a sacrifice for the greater good.

Jim_B - You talk about those questions destroying an atmosphere - and rightly so - comments like that form one of our few rules - which is that those comments are not allowed.

80 Active members - Last GQ: Winter Might Come [Nords] - complete in 16 hours - no messing - no GemSpend - no kicks...

Happy settling... :)

I can see all the points from everyone in this thread - unsurprisingly I agree with EWiggin but we have been playing together for a few years now. For me it's the participation in GQ that is important and the guild pulling together for a common aim. In Pegasus you often see the high level players working with those in the 20's/30's to help them complete GQ's (especially the 2 adventure GQ's). We seem to work a good 'Pay it Back' system so when you are able you help players below you for very little cost to them. As that player progresses they do the same to those below them. We get a few that take advantage of this, they tend to be short time players, but as a guild I believe we've grown stronger because of it.

The point by Baggis & Procell about IotP and Dark Priests is extremely valid though and BB need to look at the guild quests to make sure that those are possible as soon people will run out of those they have in the star menu. How about throwing a couple of co-ops in there, my star menu is awash with Lakeside Treasures???

The rewards and guild merchant need to be looked at for high level players though. I didn't care (I don't still really) about throwing a few cannons away for a GQ when they dropped from adventures but now I would rather it was a resource donation as that's what's dropping now.

I'd also like to see the Guild Merchant tally reset once a year for example. I can't buy any more recyclers as I've bought my allocation but after a year couldn't this reset allowing me to purchase 3 more?

There may be more thoughts from me later on but unfortunately work is calling (and yes it's a Saturday).

BDM1975 I suggest you look again, it was 2 recyc's not 3. As for a guild shop reset we have not yet had enough time to see if it is even cyclic in nature.

The thing to remember here is not all guilds have the same approch to the quild quests. You also have to remember that over time a guild will mature with more and more higher level players meaning the lower level quests become less of a issue. If this is not the case then those in charge of the guild need to ask themselves why they are having such a high turnover of members.

However Quests, Daily Quests and Guild quests ARE badly in need of a rework to bring them back in line with all that has been added to the game over the last two years.

I always delete GQs requiring payment of expert level materials. That says it all, really.

Can't even begin to understand how "paying resources" is a considered a synonym for "working together".

And paying expensive (but easily obtained) resources for a tiny reward doesn't even come close to meeting the definition of a quest as "a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult". So that's a rubbish argument, too.

Dorotheus

Unless BB go back on the Votes for Guild Merchant content, It cannot be cyclical in nature... Sure it was two and not three - but BDM's point was that when offered again, buildings aught to be available to all.

Nobody here has disagreed that BB need to look at the content / makeup of GQ. I have just questioned the need to cancel them the moment they are a bit challenging. Several posts specifically referred to "Winter Might Come" and I stated a fact that our 80 members (40% are L46+ - many more have been with us for a long time but play a slower game) did this GQ in 16 hours with no pressure or gemspend.

I agree that we do not all have the same approach - but most of us do not have our backs against the wall in the manner of some previous posters.

Gerontious

You lead a guild called "Guild Quests Suck". That says it all really.

Paying resources is not a synonym for working together - but paying resources to complement the adventures others had to do - IS synonymous with working together...

You seemed to focus on the aspect of paying resources and ignored the overall nature of GQ.... Then you said that this aspect made my argument rubbish!!

You lead a guild called "Guild Quests Suck". That says it all really.

Happy Settling,
EW...

I totally agree that Guild quests are about working together as others have said. Comparing the individual's reward with the individual's costs misses the point a bit. Sometimes it makes sense for a few people take a loss so everyone gets the guild quest rewards.

In my view single player adventures like IotP have no place in guild quests - players can be stuck in another adventure and there is little the rest of the guild can do to help - it is an individual quest not a guild quest. So whilst I agree the price point I actually don't think that IotP should feature at all, irrespective of price.

(In my guild we routinely cancel certain quests - including those with pirates and nords. We set ourselves a target to complete the other GQ within 48hrs and mostly we achieve it. )

EWiggin ok the use of the word cyclical was a mistake, I should have said repeated offers.

With new items being brought into the game and some of those items making it into the guild market after a period of time we the players have know way of knowing if a certain offer would be repeated. Also there is no evidence to support an assumption about if there is a cap on some items one way or another. A reset as suggested would prevent any new cool items from ever entering the guild market.

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Originally Posted by EWiggin

The Cambridge dictionary defines a quest as: "a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult". It does not talk of reward or profit - often the only reward would be completion of a quest.

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I take major issue with that because it's a definition for real life when difficulty matters/exists. In a game though difficulty is supplemented for time (how quickly it takes) and cost (how cheaply it can be done). Often the player has to try and find a balance between these 2 things which then produces that players 'game difficulty' in achieving the quest.

In addition to this I would argue that if a quest is meant to be hard or difficult to do then why are there a number of quest that can be done for little cost and 2 clicks of a button? Not very difficult or challenging so either way BB fails.

The guild quest system is a complete mess by any definition. It's either too quick and cheap, too expensive, too time consuming or in some cases counterproductive. It is the real world equivalent of taking 2 steps back in order to go 1 step forward rather than 1 step back and 2 steps forward.

In just about every game made before f2p came a long a player would take up a quest with the understanding they would get something out of it at the end even if that reward was the ability to progress to the next level or quest in the chain in order to get a special sword or chain mail +1.

That is the definition of a quest when applied to gaming and is what most players would expect. You do something 'hard' or laborious and in exchange it helps you, progresses you or benefits you in some way without making you worse off then you previously were before you undertook the quest. Otherwise why the heck would the average player bother with it knowing it would cost them more then the reward is worth?

If it was about comradeship and doing something together it wouldn't be implemented in such a pathetic and ludicrous way while called a guild quest.

Guild quests are no different to single player quests. Do an adventure, spend some resources etc... The only change comes in the form of them accumulating till enough people reach a magical number wish outputs a few more extra guild coins. This is nowhere close to what I'd call a guild quest, more like a single player guild annoyance in most cases.

A guild quest should be something like a 20 player adventure where guild members need to fight their way through completely random enemy camps and reach the castle, dragons lair, etc to get the well worth it reward.
Something where guild members actually interact and meat on the battle field, strategise, plan and work together doing something rather than just sending off more resources into a sink hole void never to be seen again or completing an adventure by yourself again and again.

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Originally Posted by EWiggin

I think you all missed the point before I ever did! The point of GQ was never reward (It never added up to profit for all).

The point of GQ is to increase cameraderie and participation over and above any perceived material gain!

I'm certainly not saying that BB does not need to look at the current content - but some of you may need to look at the reason why you do GQ at all...

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"camaraderie' mutual trust and friendship among people who spend a lot of time together".

On that definition it does not fit to say to members, Do this quest, no matter how much you lose out or leader will kick you out of the guild regardless of any sense of fairness.

I thought this one was asleep! I ignored the post a couple above because that friend was clearly both over and under thinking - who wants to get mixed up in that!!

We have a happy guild of 90 members who get a lot of guild coins and enjoy having a job to do when they come online!

It is the members - not the guild who are unhappy when it overuns - and we all agreed on the solution - which we very rarely use...

If a new member dislikes this - then they are free to leave - join another guild or go solo... But many of us are in second or third year!

Most stay - because we are about so much more than guild coins - which most of us don't care about.

I suspect we have one of the highest levels of activity - and older friends who join love how active our guild chat is.

So dont judge us by thinking we have a single mantra about guild quest just because that is what is discussed here!!!

I am posting this on a new thread as previous posts regarding this do not seem to have a reply from anyone on the official side. Hopefully this one will get some feedback

As the Leader of a large guild My officers and myself are constantly having to bully members into competing GQ in a reasonable time. The main reason for delays is due to the high volume of quests requiring specific adventures or 2 adventures to be completed. Add to this the need to pay expensive resources like cannons or carriages and some feel the rewards for completing it are not worth the expense/effort involved. We even have regular requests for mid levels to complete IOTP adv which is no longer available except from searches. This means that we normally just delete the quest making it pointless.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone look into making the guild quests more in line with the new loot and adventure availability.

I would also appreciate some indication that this has been read so I know I am not wasting my time posting a suggestion that will never be read.


Thread merged with original.

i read it, get em to sort out the pointless daily quest while ur at it. whats the point in swapping a few low lvl items for a few different low lvl items. the most excitement lately is having to build a lvl1 well!

maybe bb could look at updating this stuff b4 adding content that ppl don't really want, like a non event, I won't mention pvp again lol and them arrows in barracks that don't really do anything other than waste my graphics cards resources having to draw em on screen!!!




I'm only messin with ya bb, but there is a grain of truth in my comments :)

+1 especially quests requiring adventures that cost an arm and a leg on trade, if they're even available

I think there is another tread about this,- but I agree. We make a topic in chat every time we have to give cannon part, that the quest is deleted in the evening.
The Iopt quest I actually like. We are normally able to provide it for those who does not have it. Making it available in the shop for map fragments, or change it into an adv you are able to get would be logic.
More guild quests and daily quest that gives you something to do besides selling 50 titan ore or building a level 1 well, when you are at level 50, would be nice. I have not even played the game a year, and are already onto trying to make my own achievements to find something to do in the game.

( and no- no way am I starting to do pvp :p )

Yep, I agree with every comment above.
Guild quests are so unbalanced and can grind a guild to a halt.
So, maybe a suggestion box ? ( do we ever get actually heard ?)

What makes all the older threads with good suggestions any less valuable?