Vargus skills

Hi guys, I'd like to get your thoughts on the skill setup for Vargus. I just hit level 56 so I'm only starting to play Alis and I'm puzzled what to do with the books that I have prepared for Vargus.
Here are my questions: Battle Frenzy is a great skill imo, but is it suitable for Vargus in these adventures or is it better to use Unstoppable Charge (since in many guides he often uses MM)?
Also, is Weekly Maintenance useful for Vargus or is it better to invest books in lower level skills (like Battler Frenzy and/or Unstoppable Charge)?

I'm definitely gonna invest in Jog, First Aid and Overrun in lower tiers and Garrison Annex and Master Planner in the highest ones, but these in between are what's troubling me.
Thanks in advance!

Unstoppable charge is a must have for any general that often use MM or cavalry in my opinion. I have it on Vargus and the MG's and will give it to MMA's when I get enough books.

As far as I can tell it is very seldom that you use Vargus in battles that goes beyond one round, so Battle frenzy is less useful for him. I used 2 books in it on my MG's to unlock the next tier, but on all other generals I used manuscripts on tier 1 to unlock.

I used 3 codices in Garrison annex and 2 in Weekly maintenance on my Vargus, then the last one on master planner.

Unstoppable charge is USELESS.
With all the new gens horses are becoming obsolete, just use mma/nus/var suicides.
MM already have splash damage, with master planner MM always do 100 damage. Those 3 extra won't make a difference.
This is my setup for Vargus and both my major gens. I wish I could swap 1 book on first aid for the last book on battle frenzy
[IMG]prntscr.com/gc1ep3[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Budgy

Unstoppable charge is USELESS.
With all the new gens horses are becoming obsolete, just use mma/nus/var suicides.
MM already have splash damage, with master planner MM always do 100 damage. Those 3 extra won't make a difference.
This is my setup for Vargus and both my major gens. I wish I could swap 1 book on first aid for the last book on battle frenzy
[IMG]prntscr.com/gc1ep3[/IMG]

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I can't see your image, but as far as I understand it, Mater Planner influences accuracy and Unstoppable charge influences damage, right?

Has someone done any simulations with these skills?

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

this is my vargus , Bounty Hunter not bad , gaining 69-71 star coins per YWC and 30ish from FT adventures

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budgy

Unstoppable charge is USELESS.
With all the new gens horses are becoming obsolete, just use mma/nus/var suicides.
MM already have splash damage, with master planner MM always do 100 damage. Those 3 extra won't make a difference.
This is my setup for Vargus and both my major gens. I wish I could swap 1 book on first aid for the last book on battle frenzy
[IMG]prntscr.com/gc1ep3[/IMG]

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I think you are wrong, master planner increases accuray, not damage.

Master planner increases accuracy to 100%, so they always do 100 damage and never 50 anymore.

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Originally Posted by BrownGuy

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

this is my vargus , Bounty Hunter not bad , gaining 69-71 star coins per YWC and 30ish from FT adventures

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

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When you hit lvl 58 and go for books in excelsior you will drown in star coins.

i am level 65, not drowning in anything , spend them all on arrows and catapults

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budgy

Master planner increases accuracy to 100%, so they always do 100 damage and never 50 anymore.

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Yup, and with Unstoppable charge they do 103 damage, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrownGuy

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

this is my vargus , Bounty Hunter not bad , gaining 69-71 star coins per YWC and 30ish from FT adventures

http://prntscr.com/gc2e85

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Thanks for your input, but I'm really more interested in fighting skills than star coins or navigation. So, back to my original question: Unstoppable Charge: y/n, Battle Frenzy: y/n and Weekly Maintenance: y/n?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrownGuy

i am level 65, not drowning in anything , spend them all on arrows and catapults

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With the timer on those I am unable to spend my star coins fast enough to run out :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numa

Yup, and with Unstoppable charge they do 103 damage, right?

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Yes, but it is useless almost always. The reason is simple, your opponents have 100, 50, 80, 70 200 HP and so on most of the times. Yes it splashes over but you need many MM to gain any meaningful extra dmg out of it, damage enough to actually affect combats.
With 180 MM you gain 180 * 3 dmg. Not to be sniffed at, but then invariably you end up not using him for attacks with huge amounts of MM anyway. Better off spending the books in XP boost. I kinda regret not doing that now on MG. Anslem had no good synergies I felt so did the +30% XP and man does it ever make a difference.

My skills for Vargus: Planner-1, Annex-3, Charge-3, Frenzy-3, Overrun-3, Navi-2, FirstAid-3, Jog-3.
I went easy on Navigation (+2 on all main gens), because in most adv. it's the slow gens that stop me at the beginning (blocks), as I only have 1 MoD (and sometimes MoD can't be used anyway). Charge-3 for Vargus is a very nice skill, but only in regular adventures (we don't have splashing regular units), it has close to no impact in 1001 Nights, I did tons of simulations (re-writting my guides), so I knew it would be like that :)
Never considered extra XP (levelling up is for me by-product of playing the game, not a goal in itself), or starcoins/1-up (highest tier skills, when you can pay with gc for gifted RoA/Assassin and buy medipacks too).

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Originally Posted by SnowBlizz

Yes, but it is useless almost always. The reason is simple, your opponents have 100, 50, 80, 70 200 HP and so on most of the times. Yes it splashes over but you need many MM to gain any meaningful extra dmg out of it, damage enough to actually affect combats.
With 180 MM you gain 180 * 3 dmg. Not to be sniffed at, but then invariably you end up not using him for attacks with huge amounts of MM anyway.

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It also adds splash damage to knights, and you sometimes use a combination of MSW, knights and besiegers.

Considering that usually you will have around 100 of them in the group and there is a good chance they will attack the weaker, first strike units, the damage increase from splash might be something like 1-2k of total damage in the first turn.

Obviously this is a potential gain and I didnt bother doing simulations for every single camp in alis to prove that, but still its something majority of people overlook.

Extra XP should be the go-to skill, Charge and Frenzy probably tied second (I feel like neither will give you a noticeable bonus, instead a small gain that will add up over time).

Agree with Kris3457 - Unstoppable charge makes very little difference in the 1001 knight adventures, have skilled my Vargus with Rapid Fire-2 (to save on tomes), 1st Aid-3, Jog-3, Overrun-3, Battle Frenzy-3, Fast learner-3, Garrison Annex-3 and Master Planner - I am producing my own guides and have found this combo gives a significant reduction in Mounted Swordsmen losses in the 1001 adventures compared to skilling with Charge. For me Fast Learner is the absolute must have.

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Originally Posted by sparkz

It also adds splash damage to knights, and you sometimes use a combination of MSW, knights and besiegers.

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That's mostly on Anslem and Major though.

Vargus is mainly used with MM against stuff that would Flank on Ans or MG.
Turns out there's few camps for Vargus and you don't use Knights on those. Besides Knights can't flank and thus will hti Defenders who generally have laods of HP so the dmg boost is neglibeable. I put Charge on Nusala for a very few cav/knight suicides on some bigger Ali Bs and such. But second MG will be specced for starcoins and he'll definitely get +XP.

look at what attacks your using Vargus on and select which skills have the best effect in those situations. There is no best set up which suits all the attacks you use a general on.

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Originally Posted by Dorotheus

look at what attacks your using Vargus on and select which skills have the best effect in those situations. There is no best set up which suits all the attacks you use a general on.

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Of course, I'm aware of that, I just wanted to hear other people's opinions, especially those of people who make guides and do simulations - I thought that an input like that could be useful for me.

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Originally Posted by numa

Thanks for your input, but I'm really more interested in fighting skills than star coins or navigation. So, back to my original question: Unstoppable Charge: y/n, Battle Frenzy: y/n and Weekly Maintenance: y/n?

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UC y, BF y, WM n

http://prnt.sc/gcaegv

Why unstoppable charge on Vargus??? UC only works on cav, knight and MM
cav above lvl 50 is almost useless, MM are barely improved and knights become obsolete with vargus.

unstoppable charge for Vargus is a waste, totally waste.

MM already doing splash, Knights, uses for them is really very low anyway, I don't use them most of the times!
Also, I would like a skill for all types instead of one limited type that I'm not using mostly (as for example I never kill any Knight in YWC, and only 5 Knights on 2nd thief).

Anyway my Vargus skills:

http://i.imgur.com/CKoUNbk.png

Very happy with this set :)

Thanks for your input everyone!