How have/are people going to skill the Mad Scientist - i assume weekly maintenance for the extra heavy damage will be x 3 ?
Printable View
How have/are people going to skill the Mad Scientist - i assume weekly maintenance for the extra heavy damage will be x 3 ?
BB provided some piece of clarification regarding how some bonuses work recently, and even though I dont remember if it was about this particular bonus, I still think its related.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeShmoe
If it is so, that would indicate (as far as I remember the exact explanation, and I dont have time to look it up now) that the +10 bonus coming from the skill tree is not multiplied by the generals unique trait.
If it is so, that would mean that its a +10/ skill point bonus on top of 400 damage, or ~2.5% damage bonus per point spent.
You can spend a total of 6 points in the upper tier, where :
10% accuracy is a flat 5% bonus to overall damage your units do
+5 combat units is in most situations around 3-5% more attacking units (assuming you normally use around 100-150 of those on a 200 cap general) per point spent
WM would be around 2,5% damage per point spent
Additionally, this only counts for besiegers since regular cannoneers dont have splash damage, so in regular fights you dont really get any extra damage out of them.
So for me (unless someone shows me where I have made a mistake in the above) WM would be last in priority. Might be its not even worth spending tier 3 books at all.
Never mind skills, has anyone found a camp where he can actually be used effectively? Literally every sim I've run with him so far has higher losses than my other generals.
On test I heard that on camps which require a MG with 100 or more heavy units he is more powerful.
To kill the spawns in the witch tower of DB I had been using MG 59r 1e 225k normal loss being 59r. I've replaced that with MS 59r 1e 155k loss from the only one ive run so far being 53r which my simming suggesting this being the highest loss while also suggesting loosses being a minimum of 42r.
My MS setup is 3 in weekly maintenance, garrison annex, overrun, juganaut, battle frenzy ,first aid, jog
A massive saving of 6 recs. Totally worth it then :P
He is a beast on many araban nights adventures just needs thinking outside the box... you can save troops if you carefull think about the attacks he can replace Major in a lot of places even with just 215 troops, he just needs different setups. I tested it on test in amost every arabain adventure and could use him in a lot of camps saving MS.
Well, initially I'd be interested in actually seeing some specific details (and I don't particularly want to use garrison annexe). As a side note, my attacks tend to burn much more in the way of Sw than MSw - tjhat's just down to the way I calculate troop costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanfas
Well as like Mary to make it a attack general the Garrison anex is a must, specially for high level adventures, which are where he shines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmeister
This! The last 2 camps on ToW for example and also in Oil Lamp you can swap MS/MM on camps for SW/BES, anywhere you would have used an MG. Just have to sim it out on DSO to see if/where savings can be madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Fanfas
My large addy play now is to replace MS with SW/KN where possible as with the lower build times / res cost allied to something like the ice swim buff means you can run and replace much quicker
Once event over will start to sim+use on MCC and Queens too ..
Can you guys give accurate comparisons and example camps by either as a screenshot or guide name and camp number. I haven't seen a single camp where the general actually beats any of the old generals with skills, mainly the MG and the Champions.
Saying that he is a beast must mean he is a lot better and not only by few units in terms of losses.
He is not a 'lot' better than an MG youre right but is accumulative i guess over an entire adv. So as an example, the last camp on 1T - i can replace Ans 47MS, 9 RT loss with MSci, 82SK, 8 RT loss. Not a great deal in terms of time saved but obv swords dont need battle horses so less res.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannerheim
I tried the same camp with 2 skill variations (2-3 Weekly, 2-3 Annex) of the general and for me my Anslem is still marginally better and MG as good: http://prntscr.com/lbul64Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeShmoe
The reason I'm asking for examples is that if he is not any better than the existing ones I don't want use 5k pumpkins and bunch of books to have a general I can only drag along to make one or two kills in an adventure to save 1-5 units and being mostly useless rest of the time. Hopefully we know some good use cases before the event finished.
As long as he can replace the majors in some attacks i am very happy with it, i chain a lot attacks to speed my adventures ince i log less and less time nowdays so even if equal to a major if anything will allow me to send 1 more attack at the same time as the majors, so saves me time specially in adventures with long walk times. The fact he can save some troops in some places it's an added bonus :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannerheim
Agreed. He may not be better in terms of losses in many situations but to have another general that can 'hold it's own' along with the 'big boys (and girl)' then it's a great asset to have another in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanfas
starting to work through the mcc sequence to see where he might be useful. With weekly maintenance x2 and master planner, on the Mountain Labyrinth camp evil_j marks as L2, he can make a kill with 40ms 105k 70b, saving about 8ms and 8k compared to the best attack with a major gen. He's useless against L5 and L6, though. The best candidates for replacements are any camp where you'd normally need a major with >100be, since you can get away with half as many and load up with first strikers instead. I haven't taken the time to sim whether or not unstoppable charge might be a bit more useful, though, than weekly maintenance; my current skilling has only 1 level of that.
Not quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by rathbone93
The best potential candidates for replacements are camps where the fight lasts at least 2 turns, because overkill damage from having twice as strong besiegers can potentially shave off a turn or two of the fights length, directly reducing damage taken.
This way you are also more likely to find some use for him, because if you'll only be looking on replacing him as a besieger general you'll be looking at barely 5-10% of fights in total.
He's mad enough to be used as a +10s-block extender.. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannerheim
If anyone could share some of their thought about this, i'd appreciate it.
The way I see it so far:
Cannons: dmg 60-120; accuracy 90%;
Scientist boosts that dmg up to 120-240 right.
Now let's add some skill bonuses on top. Weekly Maint 2/3 + Master planner 1/1.
Cannons: dmg 80-140; accuracy 100%
With 100% accuracy we can remove the minimum damage completely so we have, say, MG with 140-dmg cannons and MS with 260-dmg cannons. (I think that's how the formula works, but it's not even that important right now)
The point is that cannons have no splash dmg and one of the stronger units in FT addies are Bears with 140 HP. Giants have 160, but usually Xbows are used for them anyway.
We reach that 140 dmg mark with a skilled MG and that's all we need right. Cannons could literally have 1000 dmg but without splash it would not matter.
Comparing skilled gens, the 100% dmg boost to cannons will simply do nothing at all, except against Bosses maybe, but I really doubt that this will make a huge difference in losses.
What is more, cannons' damage really comes into play when things drag beyond round 1 since we have Last Strike and all enemies get their attacks in anyway before dying. Only if the battle lasts, say, 2 rounds, we start caring about how many we killed in round 1 so there will be less units left in round 2 to attack us, right? It means that every camp that can currently be killed with MG in just 1 round, won't get any better with a Scientist.
So... am I missing something or is my logic flawed because it seems that Scientist is absolutely useless in all non-Ali addies? I'd like to believe that I'm wrong and he still has some potential in ALL types of adventures, not just Alis
I think the consensus on the mad scientist, it will become an ornament in the star menu. I’m sure someone will find a use for it.
It does not seem to have any attributes that makes it stand out from the current set of generals available in the game.
I’m sure someone will point out that on a certain camp with a specific set of skills it will save 2 MS over the current MG.
I’m at a loss, why the Dev’s would release a new Gen that will bring no apparent benefit to the game.
Then again, they did release the Scouting Post despite being told on testing that it did not work as stated. Only having to “fix it” a week after release!
Maybe they will “fix” the Mad Scientist…………..I’m not holding my breath though :)
You're 100% right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigintiljon
The idea to boost cannons damage kind of indicates that whoever is responsible for it most likely has no idea how combat mechanics works, or they introduce stuff that makes no sense just for the sake of putting something in game.
Or maybe they have some new adventures in the pipeline where thus general is useful
But he does not really have anything that would make that to be possible compared to the MG or the Champions, at least in a sense of being more useful than the others and that's the key problem already today. Double cannon damage advantage is pretty much mitigated by the large MG unit capacity or the Champion traits. Demolition ability to army only helps with taking down the remaining structure faster which only saves some time or might help with blocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordloocan1
Double cannon damage can help on bosses where splash damage is irrelevant. Wild Mary FA can be knocked out with: MMA-1r, Nus-20r160b, MS-21r175k
Saves about 20 recruits over Major because the cannons take her out in 1 round. Not an overwhelming improvement I know, but it does highlight a situation where he can help even on regular adventures.
Note that this works with either 2/3 GA or 2/3 WM, I am still not 100% which one is best (it may ultimately come down to preference).
Also, I tried him on the NightSpawn FA for Dark Brotherhood but was only able to equal the performance of the Major. So the Mad Scientist's application may be limited, but the same is true of all attack generals once you have them all. He is far from useless though.
Edit: After much simulating it is becoming apparent that camps where he actually beats the other gens are indeed very rare. He can match the major in quite a few, but that's usually about it. If he just had a base garrison size of 220 like the MMA I think it could really tip the scales in his favor sometimes.
I have simmed numerous adventures and find very little use if any for this general, I have him fully skilled. Some camps he can be used at are ones that Mary can take out for much better xp and same losses.
Hope that BB will implement some improvements to make it a worthwhile general for us to have.
Seems to have been a lot of hype and collecting pumpkins for nothing at this stage.
I've found that he's better than other gens (including champs) in maybe 1-3 camps per Arabian adventure. I have one camp in particular where I used to run a really tight block where suddenly all the risk is removed because he clears the camp so much faster.
Any specifics available pls.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmeister
The abilities of the coa make them very useful. The only reason the major is sometimes better, is its capacity. The mad gen doesn't' have that, so its a useless gen.
Only when an attack would be best with a major gen and has 140+ or cannon/besieger in it, and it lasts for more than 1 round, the mad scientist gets better results.
The tight block I was referring to was the final camp in 1st thief. My former attack on the last camp was MMA+1Sw / MMA+1SW / Ans+34SW 26 MSw 11Kn 79Bes (losses 34Sw 21MSw 9Kn), and there were times when the block camp countdown bar showed before the boss camp's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton_C
Now I hit with MMA+1Sw / MMA+1Sw / MSc +79Sw 3MSw 36Kn 82Bes (Losses 79Sw 8Kn and a lot less stress)
I am not sure who this general is aimed at, but it only seems to be useful if you are missing a major general since the extra capacity on the major essentially does the same thing as the double siege damage.
I think it does raise a good question though
Should balance work be done on Generals?
I think all the special generals should have some kind of balance, less so the fast 200 gens.
They are balanced in BB's opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotugo
The champions have been balanced by reducing their troop capacity - otherwise they'd be much too powerful. Just because a general isn't as powerful as you'd like dowsn't mean it's unbalanced. I think they are all about right, if you assume that each general was designed with a specific type of target in mind. The Scientist may appear largely useless, but he comes into his own against high-level opponents. The fact that he's not very useful for lower level players doesn't mean he's unbalanced, any more than Drac is unbalanced, even though he's pretty much useless when you get into the Arabian adventures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotugo
I hit it with Nukesala 1R and Anslem 39MS 9k 117B, losses 28MS 9k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmeister
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmeister
Which then takes it down to the question of how we eack value MSw as compared to Sw. Personally, I value 79 Sw at a lower cost than 28MSw, considering both the extra materials and cooking time required for the MSw.Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer123
To each their own :)
Indeed and I've modified all my guides to use S instead of MS whenever it works out best :-) In the same vein I've modified them all to use Mary whenever possible for the extra XP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmeister
The thing with your attack is getting the 2 x suicide MMA in time with the block :-) My guide placement, attacks sent 1 after another: prnt.sc/lko4qz
Tav Gen 99MS 101AM (no losses) to block 3 rd last camp, Mary 30MS 185MM blocks (and eventually kills) 2nd last camp loss of 25MS, Nukesala 1R + Anslem 39MS 9K 117B attack last camp loss 28MS 9K. Total XP for the adv 185K + Prem prnt.sc/lko6xy