Four Winds Quest

[mrfatalerror]

So, I finished Bandit Nest adventure. Lost almost whole my army. And guess what? Yeah, I didn't get needed amount of granite. It means I can't finish the Four Winds quest at all. Thank you.

Next time, feel free to base the chain quest on probability again. It's really uberfunny.

</sarcasm>

[Whizkeyjack]

I'm from the .net servers (forum) in the US.

I came to post my feedback. Four Winds Quest is a terribly designed event because it has a time limit. If it didn't have a time limit, it wouldnt be as bad.

What really bothers me is that people are confusing "challenge" with "luck". These quests are LUCK based. There is no planning involved no skill involved when it comes to getting stones/marbles/granite from searches. And definitely luck when it comes to getting granite from adventures. Specifically the 33% chance granite and the double luck factor of getting old friends AND granite.



Four Winds - Various Quest Chains Evaluation
Level 16-25 - This quest requires no adventures. And is the most easiest to do for 500 gems. And 4 noble houses.
(in fact any player could probably 'reroll' a new character and get this done if they just wanted 4 noble houses.)
Not to mention the amount of gems you get from rerolling You could in fact gift yourself the silo or watermill almost in theory if you loggin for a week.

Level 26-35 - This quest line sucks because of the granite requirements of repeating island of pirates (which has a really bad return on the resources spent to finish it.) BUT its not terribly bad with dark priest since its a 2 player questline that you can share with another player and piggy back off their quest completion without wasting your own troops to finish the zone (if you're low on troops and don't need xp).

Level 36-45 - This questline is the WORST of all of the different levels. Why? Bandits Nest is very hard to get from adventure if its even acquireable from adventures. Cost too much in map fragments. Has a poor return. Chance of getting granite is 33%. Can NOT be done with 2 players. And on top of that the last chain getting granite from "old friends" which can only be obtained as a "drop" from Witch of the Swamp. This means you have to 3 different adventures for this questline minimum. And if you're very unlucky, the old friends may not drop. And if it does, and you don't get granite it. You have to do witch of the swamp again. and then old friends again. Witch of the Swamp is a 1 player map, same as old friends. You can not share the resource load/burden with anybody else.


Level 46-50 - This questline is not terribly bad as it has 2 adventures that are shareable with 2-3 friends. And the reward for doing them is not terribly bad. But its jsut as frustrating as the previous as it requires granite.



You guys really really need to fix your game design. Possibly give players a choice to which quest chain they'd prefer. Maybe allow players to choose a quest chain to do once. It's unfair to have 4 quest chains that I'm forced into the hardest one when I never got a chance to do the easiest one because I passed that level already before you introduced these quest lines.

I think that we should be allowed to do the first 'tier' of quest chain if its our first time doing it. And then the second tier etc... later. etc.


For example, there are a lot of quests for new players right now that give great decoration rewards. But this was introduced way after I had surpassed that level and now I can't get those decoration rewards unless I start over and make a new account. We should be allowed to do quests even easy ones that were introduced later.



Developers: How to Fix BAD LUCK in Quests
You guys need to program in a 'fail safe' for the worst case scenario of Bad Luck. These Quests that require "X" granite for adventures is an example of really bad design.

Some people might get it in their first shot. But some people might never get it at all if they keep getting strings of bad luck. Especially the ones where granite is 33% chance instead of 50% chance.


Failing the first time is okay. Failing the second time starts becoming frustrating. Failing the third time is demoralizing. After that it becomes rage quit territory. Since its theortically possibly to never get granite at all with strings of bad luck.

I would fix this the require of the quest says get X granite in 1 adventure or Y exotic wood in 3 adventures.
Or generically "X" granite OR "Y" exotic wood. Where the X value is the minimum value you can get from adventures. and the Y value is the minimum cummulative total of 3 adventures of exotic wood combined.

At least this will ensure players to get the quest done in a timely fashion.

Hey, welcome

We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.

This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.

So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy

[Ironistka]

Third BN and no granite. I can't afford another go, not to mention I have no chance of finishing on time. So I cancel this quest and feel quite bad. Funny, that everyone who is fine with the chain seems to have been lucky enough to get resources required at 1-2nd time they tried... lucky you.

[Tshh]

Had to do 9 old friends. Beat that

As it says, I have 61% chance to get granite doing it first time. Honestly I don't believe anyone who is is going to say that it was bad luck.

[Xehivia]

Hey, welcome

We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.

This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.

So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy

It doesn't matter how you dress it up, it is bad game design.

I am in the 36-45 bracket and I have give up trying to complete this quest line. In truth, I wish I had listened to others and not even bothered trying to complete it.

You are right, they can't make everyone happy. However, they could implement a design philosophy that doesn't include luck.

Random rewards are fine as a loot reward, but it's not okay to then have quests that require you receive one of those random rewards, especially when the adventures that you are asked to complete are so expensive.

Many players who weren't lucky enough to get what was required have been left frustrated by these quests. They may not be a requirement of the game, but they are an important part of it because they give players something to do and thus add to the longevity of the game.

I do not mind a quest line that is difficult, but it should be difficult in a non random way. Once a player has completed a task, that should be it, move on to the next quest. It should not require a task to be completed and then RNG decides if the player can move on or not.

I have seen many players reporting it took them several loot spots before they got the required reward. At least you have that option. Many people don't.

Congratulations those of you who have managed to complete this chain.

[Gerontius]

Hey, welcome

We've already talked about this issue regarding "bad design", in the global chat. The thing is, they do know what they're doing. It's not bad design, it's a way to engage different people into different situations. People who had trouble with this quest came here to the forums, had their complaint, and then moved on.

This is true for ALL of the previous event/features, this Four Winds chain is not different.

So I would not call it a bug or bad design, it's something you have to live with. They can't make everyone happy

BB admitted EotW wasn't what they'd intended. So, actually they don't know what they're doing... stop trying to defend the indefensible

[mudthrok]

I agree with the bad design, Im stuck on the dark priests after 5 attempts still no granite and from what i can see the odds should be 50%. i'll give it one more go then cut my losses and time and spend my efforts on another game.

[Sto_Helit]

I deleted my Four Winds Quest and immediately felt much better. I don't mind working for achievable challenges, but adding luck in is irritating.

[Baggis]

I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.

[BobLurker]

I disagree with the whole bad design thing. If the game threw out loot in a set manner then it would reduce adventures into a boring and predictable experience. There would be no waiting for the loot with bated breath wondering if you're lucky or not today. The whole point of Four Winds was that it was supposed to throw everyone out of their comfort zones, get people doing different adventures from normal, building new buildings, challenging their islands to produce more efficiently and working with their guild/friends to reach common goals. I had to do Motherly love and Surprise attack many times to get the necessary granite and it was all part of the fun. Despite having to do in excess of 15 expensive adventures to get through my quest chain, I managed to do it well within the original timescale but i can see why they extended it as there was alot to do in the time given. Had there been no timelimit then it would have been no challenge and pointless. BB gave us an interesting mini-event with good rewards to fill the gap before Easter. They should be congratulated.

All of what you say is fine, except for one thing - all of what you liked could have been achieved without the luck element. Good design would have achieved the fresh challenges, but using a critical path that did not involve luck. Having rewards based on luck is fine, having progress in a quest's critical path based on luck is not fine. There really isn't any question about this - any professional developer knows that critical path progress based on luck is bad design. The quest may be a sub-element within the game, but it still has a clear critical path to follow to complete it. If you think we're wrong in calling it bad design, then please show me any examples of good games where progress through the game's critical path is based on luck? I think you will struggle to find any, I really do.