[Offline] TSO - Combat Simulator

[corona88]

Hi
For fairy tales adventures

bear now have 140 HP(160 before) and fox 30 HP (40 before)

[RobCoenen]

It's a great simulator for 1 wave, but for multiple waves it's not great. The second wave opponent units will be when they have minimal losses in the first round. This means sending a smaller amout of units the first wave will simulate a lower loss. However, when you simulate the waves individualy the outcome will be different.
If you look at this simulation:
1: 200R 2: 75C vs. 100SL 40WH 60WL
You'll probably kill (about 50% chance) all guard dogs.

So: 2nd wave:
75C vs. 60WL
is much more likely.

So a second wave has to be simulated with the minimal AND maximal losses from the enemy. (so the minimal losses will be much lower but maximum stays the same).

This is still not very accurate because the outcome of wave 1 will influance the best possible wave 2.

I do think it's way to complex to get an accurate, multiple waves simulator. Therefore I think it's best to remove, or add a note to, the multiple wave function.

For just 1 wave it's a great simulator!


UPDATE:
Just atacked with the 1st wave (200R). only 52 Rangers left.

[Asipak]

Therefore I think it's best to remove [...] the multiple wave function.

You want me to remove this very useful function just because the minimal losses aren't minimal enough?

You cannot be serious.

As the users minimal losses are not important at all, there is actually no need to calculate the minimal losses. It's just a feature, some guys may need to put this information on their tactical maps. For any reason whatsoever.

As the simulator predicts a higher number of minimal losses for multi-wave simulations, no one would complain about lower losses in-game. The only important thing is, that the maximal losses are correct. And that is the case as the simulator always takes the minimal losses of the enemies for the next wave. (There was a hint for that, don't know where it has gone.)

Just atacked with the 1st wave (200R). only 52 Rangers left.

So the simulator was right. What is the problem?



Regards

[NightEye]

Asipak:
found a small error in the motherly love camp selection via the map. the 200 wolf and 100 spike camps are switched on your simulator. (2 traps on the right) caught it since I'm blocking them and triple check new blocks.

[RobCoenen]

The only important thing is, that the maximal losses are correct. And that is the case as the simulator always takes the minimal losses of the enemies for the next wave. (There was a hint for that, don't know where it has gone.)


So the simulator was right. What is the problem?

Regards

I know what you mean but I don't really agree with your argument. Offcourse the maximal losses are important, but what really matters is that you lose the least amount of units (considering the value of units)
I'll give you the example:
1: 200R 2: 200R vs. 100SL 40WH 60WL (total losses: min 242R max 257R)
1: 200R 2: 75C vs. 100SL 40WH 60WL (total losses: min 200R + 48C max 200 + 75C)

If you claim only the maximum losses are important then you would choose to lose between 242-257 recruits.
I chose the other one. I only lost 200R.

Now what I mean to say is that you're absolutely right my recruits didn't kill the Guard dogs (about 10% chance). If that happend I would send another wave of 200R and would have lost 242-257R.
But they did. That ment the outcome of the first wave changed the outcome of the second wave and I send 75C. Prevented losing 31-41R.

When chosing the strategy I would like to know if I my wave selection would result better 80% of the time.

Do you know what I mean?

[Asipak]

No, I don't get it!

What you get, when you you take a look at the Hall of Fame and it gives you

1: 200R 2: 200R vs. 100SL 40WH 60WL

as the best result, it's always the best result for the worst case which is the most important one before you start a fight. If you are clever, you send the first wave of the calculated „best result“ and then take a look at the enemy units in the bandit camp that have survived. You really should simulate again now with those units to decrease your losses. No one could tell you what will be the best wave for the second attack before you know about the survivors.

You shouldn't turn off your brain and send one wave after another. The results in the enemy camp after one wave are always different, so you need to calculate the following waves again to achieve the minimal losses. If you don't have the time for that, just send the waves like the simulators told you and you won't get higher losses than the maximal ones. A good compromise!

Now what I mean to say is that you're absolutely right my recruits didn't kill the Guard dogs (about 10% chance). If that happend I would send another wave of 200R and would have lost 242-257R.
But they did. That ment the outcome of the first wave changed the outcome of the second wave and I send 75C. Prevented losing 31-41R.

This should be obvious. I don't know what you want to tell me or what you want the simulator to do for you.

Asipak:
found a small error in the motherly love camp selection via the map. the 200 wolf and 100 spike camps are switched on your simulator. (2 traps on the right) caught it since I'm blocking them and triple check new blocks.

Fixed!

Regards

[FredFlintstone]

I have always used this battle sim from almost day one, Its great , so thanks very much for making it. The only one thing that annoys me a little is that when you click on the vet gen, it doesn't bring crossbowmen and elite soldiers into the mix.

[RobCoenen]

You shouldn't turn off your brain and send one wave after another. The results in the enemy camp after one wave are always different, so you need to calculate the following waves again to achieve the minimal losses. If you don't have the time for that, just send the waves like the simulators told you and you won't get higher losses than the maximal ones. A good compromise!
Regards

That's exactly what I was trying to explane :P. And if you don't have the 20s for simulating the 2nd wave then I fully agree with you.

Last question: Isn't it better to calculate? The maximum losses can differ when simulating 100times and 2200times. You only need to calculate the maximum losses once (min damage player's units, max damage enemy units) and the minimum once (max damage player's units, min damage enemy units).
You don't need to simulate it anymore, the only value that needs simulation is the victory percentage [%].

For the record: I'm not criticizing, just curious

[corona88]

Hi
can you add new major general in simulator?
270 unit limit

[MihaiBV]

It was Great simulator to bad that dont work anymore, no more full screen for max or min rounds...