Updated goods and adventure price sheet

[Balgra]

I thought so at the time nukar... good job i said on your bike!

[Gammelbold]

ermmm.... perhaps this is not the right place to give a tip, but here goes.: I calculated that if you upgrade copper mines to lvl 5 and get a friend to add a 9 hour basket buff, the copper mine will become depleted within about 8 hours and you'll have earned double copper ore from it. :-D

[Nukar]

Did you include the resources needed for upgrades etc in your calculations?
Cos to calculate the real profit you would need to deduct the upgrade costs.

[Nukar]

Hello all,

I have moved the active core from FWB to a new guild called "Old Friends". Look for us with the [O-F] tag.
We will continue hosting the price sheet udner our new flag. But be warned that the hosted adventure guides are outdated. As soon as we have more new guides matching the new pathfinding (and atleast slightly readable) we will updat those sheets as well.

Cheers
Nukar

PS If price updates are to slow, blame Andreen for not rejoining us yet ;P

[Nukar]

Hello all,

We would like to give all (NFL) players a change to prove scammers. But the sheets do not provide the room it will need. So I have moved the "Suspected scammers" list here.

Do note: We will only accept scammers to the list if you provide us proof.

Cheers,
Nukar

[Ra_V_en]

I got mixed feeling about your adventure sheet.

1) Xp gained per lost coin ... its only based on unit losses and thats really poor... i mean it doesn't give you any final information is it worth to do the adventure after all. Its only about for xp gainers for those how don't care at all about gc, cost of the adventure itself, etc. Final though, "per lost coin" if so then adv cost should be included or it should be "per troop cost"

2) Coins gained per coins lost, 3x avg loostpot value ... thats not practical, u never got it for yourself but for general calculation its good enough.
Again you didn't include adventure value /cost itself, even if you got it for free u lost gc not selling it, so this chart is totally out of accuracy.

Now I've tuned it a bit (link bellow), so u can finally see some kind of relation which includes finall gc status (all losses and all gains) and its correlation to xp gained.

GC Score - loot value -troop value - adv value.

XP gained per gc lost - total xp gained per total losses (xp gained /(troop + adv cost))

Subjective total XP - ok here its tricky, we know how much you can gain xp per gc... but each surplus of gc gained on the adventure is added to this score. For example if the Xp gained per gc lost is 10, it is multiplied by each gc you gained on this adventure (lets say +100 is gc score), then subjective total xp is xp gained + 10x100. It simply means that each gc gained on this adventure can be converted to more xp on the same adventure in the future. You can buy the adventure or some troops for that, it somehow lowers the future gc need to finish the next one.

Xp ratio is simply relation of Subjective XP to XP gained on the adventure , the higher the score the higher the value of a adventure in general. Ratio of 1 means that the adventure is somehow neutral, you've lost the gc but you will get it back from the loot, so you've purely gained XP only spending time. Above 1 means you've gained xp for free and there is some gc left as a bonus. Below 1 means that you've actually lost coins on that deal.
If the ratio is 2.0 then it means that after selling the loot you can finish the same one in future for free!
Imo thats the most important information off all.

Put it to your trade sheets and you will see a pure price revolution, before it was just based on weird factors.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1QmpyeFE#gid=1

[Nukar]

Well we had to pick some way to make a difference.

1) The XP vs coins lost. It stil shows wich adventures have a high or low XP revenue compaired to the effort.

2) How you get the adventure , for me is irrelevant. Cos as you said, you can buy or find it. Buy on G3, gems or even MF. That is in no way a measure for stable refference.
So we only included actual losses vs possible gains. Again its a way to compair. And as close a possible, with the randomness of the drops. Only this time based on coins instead of XP.
The lootspots are in fact valluable. Either you swap spots, or you sell them. The values are based on swaps. And to be honest (I did not confirm it by reworking your math) I doubt the sorting wil be much different. You only add the adventure price into the value. Wich for me is just an new random factor. The goal is to keep it plain and easy to follow.

So your assumption of whats weird isnt shared. Sorry

PS: your sheets are set to private

[Qualan]

everybody values stuff different. So valuation has to be as objective as possible. The more random variables you introduce, the less transparent the valuation will be

Some will want to do high yield adventures, so lots of xp per lost troop and dont really care for loot- they will typically look for a nords to play due to the high ratio
Some want cheap xp, so basically high return on troops lost- so good quality loot versus limited troop losses, but mostly loot based- They on the whole wont value nords very high to play- typical nords gives high xp but mediocre loots and youc an do much better on other adventures, including the selling/swapping of the lootspot

If any change is needed to valuation of adventures, it would be to have both a ranking/valuation for xp verses trooploss and one for value of lost troops versus gained loot- that way people can pick and chose what they are aiming for and pick the right adventures for them (although most already know which ones these are, but tying in loot value with the price sheet gives a better baseline for the potential return on loots on a swap and hance pricerange that would be sensible)

Combining the two methods would imo just muddle the waters and not give the info that the two distinct group of players are looking for and adding the price of the adventure would just introduce another variable to complicate matters-

[Ra_V_en]

Indeed it was in private mode its now unlocked.

You assuming that troops cost is based of value of the resources needed to produce them, its the same with adventures. You are not getting them from the sky, you have to get it for gems, map fragments or simply buy in on trade channel. Getting what you want from explorer is a fairy tale so I don't even think about it as a real source.

This way you say that it doesn't matter if there was new adventure which will cost 10x the nords and have the same losses but 2x the xp gained, as far as xp/gc on your chart is 2 times higher its really worth it and thats just irrational. For that gc who somebody spends to actually buy the adventure he could gain 5 times the xp... that really matters. I didn't say your calculations are wrong and don't show anything... indeed it can give you some view.. but very limited.
The point is that basing on this chart almost all of the viewers can assume that nords is as good for profit as for XP and thats totally inaccurate.

To make my point I've put in comparison Nords and cheap as hell VtV, the only shortsighted advantages of finishing nords is actually few more xp gained at once, less units taken to the battle and possibility to finish it much faster. But if you consider that u need to spend 32 times more gc to buy it then attractiveness goes so much down. As far as attractiveness can be considered in many aspects this one more variable will make the view more complete and possibly some players will make a new look on the adventures they were playing so passionately.

It's all I wanted to say and to be honest I love the trade sheets for that adventure tab... i could get my bunch of vtvs and pirates almost for free thanks deflation

[Nukar]

Well, when we created the adventures list I had long chats with Stalk on what we wanted to be included and in what way.
The conclussion was:
There is more then one way to order the value of adventures. Your math is based on both coin value and XP, getting best of both worlds. At the same time you wont get the best of either.
We noticed the majority was either looking for the GC value OR the XP value. Not both at the same time.
We also noticed that people have a need to understand how the formula works. And no offence to anyone, the simpler the better.

As far as including the adv price go's i wil not include those:
A: To many options to obtain the adventures. No real value can be appointed. Unless you prefer coinvalue only.
B: It will make every single adventure less attractive. I know this isnt a real benefit. But its simply better to look at positive profits then negative ones.
(not to mention the extended maintenance ill have when prices fluctuate)

Do I think these sheets affected market values? Yes to some extend they did. They made it more clear to players how to value the variouse adventures.
Do I think these sheets dictated the values period? No people will find their own favorites no matter what. At best it just went a bit faster.
Do i think an other sorting order will affect market values again. Maybe, yes as long as ppl understand why this order exists. But most can look for adventures that score high on both tables by themselfs.