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Thread: [Guide] Killste : Collected Adventure Guides by Various Authors

  1. #651
    Aunt Irma’s Favourite Writer
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    Victor the Vicous has now been fully updated,
    with troops needed and lost for eight different setups, including all kinds of battle hardened generals and also cannoneers.



    Quote Originally Posted by XiozZe View Post
    Doing my first BK, I want to say something about that mid dark castle block (camp 5 & 6)

    BLOCKING NORMAL GENERAL: [1R 8M 1S 190C] huh? 8% failling chance? meh, let's make it better:

    We know we fail with 180 sec, we know we fail with 200 sec, so a 0,1% for 180 sec is not important
    BLOCKING NORMAL GENERAL: [1R 7M 190C] --> 6% failing chance. (5,97% actually) I'm sure you find a better one Tage, but I will use this for know
    It very much looks like a better setup for those needing the 220 seconds...
    Although 2200 simulations are really too few to tell exactly how much better your setup is...
    Let's compare your graph and mine:





    Looking at those graphs it's strange to see how 10-round losses are so much more common than 9- and 11-round losses.
    And likewise how 11-round victories are so much more common than 10-round victories. Something I cannot explain...
    In reality these distributions should be more like bell curves (Gaussian normal distribution),
    but I cannot say if 2,200 is simply too small a sample to show the real shape of the distribution.

    EDIT: The more I'm looking into these (been simulating quite a number of different setups tonight to see if I could find something better than yours, but I couldn't ), the more obvious it becomes that there must be something tipping over the outcome of the fight in the first round. Probably just the difference of whether one more or one fewer of some unit dies or survives. The destiny for this one unit is probably enough to lead to either a 9-round victory or to a 12-round defeat (on average).

    The best tool I've got for these kinds of comparisons is Andelar's DOS-based simulator.
    It always makes 10,000 simulations, and by running it for the same setup tens of times you get a pretty good distribution.
    Unfortunately it doesn't give the whole distribution though, it only gives the minimum duration and the percentual chance for it and the percentual chance that it will be one round longer.


    By running your setup of 1R 7M 190C 150,000 times, I get these chances for 160 and 180 seconds of fighting (but no estimate of 200 seconds, as there are always a number of rounds lasting only 160 seconds:

    160 seconds: 131 times out of 150,000 = 0.09% (varying between 0.06% and 0.14%)
    180 seconds: 486 times out of 150,000 = 0.32% (varying between 0.15% and 0.40%)


    By running my own setup of 1R 6M 1S 190C 150,000 times, I get these chances for 160, 180 and 200 seconds of fighting (since there are 7 cases where the chance for 160 seconds is 0.00%, I do get a pretty good estimate for the chance that it will last 200 seconds):

    160 seconds: 17 times out of 150,000 = 0.01% (varying between 0.00% and 0.04%)
    180 seconds: 124 times out of 150,000 = 0.08% (varying between 0.04% and 0.15%)
    200 seconds: 5936 times out of 70,000 = 8.48% (varying between 8.14% and 8.97%)


    However, Andelar's simulator also gives intermediate results after 1,000 simulations, and by checking 15 of these rounds with no occurrance of 160 seconds, I can get a distribution for your setup for 200 seconds:

    200 seconds: 793 times out of 15,000 = 5.3% (varying between 4.1% and 6.3%)


    So yes, your setup is clearly better if you want a block that lasts 220 seconds or longer.
    The chance that it will last less than 220 seconds is about 5.7%, compared to 8.6% for my setup.
    Last edited by Tage; 04.02.13 at 02:31.

  2. #652
    Aunt Irma’s Favourite Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiozZe View Post
    With 2 BATTLE HARDENED general, there will be some change to let the battle be <219 sec:

    BATTLE HARDENED general: [169R (169R)] {2 rounds} = 20 sec
    BATTLE HARDENED general: [129R 13M 1S 87E (70R - 116R 1M- 129R 12M)] {5 rounds + 10 rounds countdown} = 150 sec

    45 + 20 + 150 = 215 sec
    This will need to be tested and timed first...
    When I timed my own veteran on that castle, I got 40 seconds (4 rounds) + 110 seconds.
    100 seconds would certainly fit a lot better with all other timings I've done on dark castles, but I cannot trust this without testing and retiming.

    Besides, you need to reduce the number of elites from 87 to 57 to get down from 230 to 200 units.

  3. #653
    Erudite Pioneer Asipak's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Tage asked me to reply to your discussion that you've started right here.

    Some guys on the french forum already found out that a fight gets supposed to be a loss also if the general is still alive. That is why my simulator shows a different result than the other one. I'm sure the calculation is correct.

    Regards

    [edit]

    In reality these distributions should be more like bell curves (Gaussian normal distribution),
    but I cannot say if 2,200 is simply too small a sample to show the real shape of the distribution.
    It's not this way. The distribution doesn't look like a gaussian normal distribution. This is why it's difficult to calculate the battle results using probabilities instead of simulating the battle.

    In my opinion, 2,200 repetitions are enough to get a good approach.
    Last edited by Asipak; 04.02.13 at 12:58.

  4. #654
    Aunt Irma’s Favourite Writer
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    Hello and thanks for visiting us, Asipak!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asipak View Post
    It's not this way. The distribution doesn't look like a gaussian normal distribution. This is why it's difficult to calculate the battle results using probabilities instead of simulating the battle.
    Yes, I realised that myself last night. Which is also why comments like this can be disregarded:

    Quote Originally Posted by justforforum View Post
    Nice simulator but it takes a long time to simulate the battles. Why are you even doing simulations? Everything is probability calculation so there is absolutely no need for simulating. It would reduce server load and wait time significantly if you changed it to calculate instead of simulate.

  5. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tage View Post
    This will need to be tested and timed first...
    When I timed my own veteran on that castle, I got 40 seconds (4 rounds) + 110 seconds.
    100 seconds would certainly fit a lot better with all other timings I've done on dark castles, but I cannot trust this without testing and retiming.

    Besides, you need to reduce the number of elites from 87 to 57 to get down from 230 to 200 units.
    Oh yes, I mean 57E sry

    Check this here
    Scroll down, and the maximum round number will be 50 + 100 = 150 sec

    Oh my god, Lord Asipak here!
    However, I have to disagree, 2200 repetitions isn't enough, certainly not for blocks.
    If you have an 0,01% chance for fail, after 20,000 repetitions, there is only a little chance your simulator with 2,200 repetitions will detect that.
    Now you can say: 0,01% chance, no-one cares,
    but at first, I want to let all my guide users now there is an chance for failing
    and second, I will not stop searching till I found 100% succes chance, which I think I found after seeing there isn't a failing chance.

  6. #656
    Aunt Irma’s Favourite Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiozZe View Post
    Check this here
    Scroll down, and the maximum round number will be 50 + 100 = 150 sec
    Yes, and also check this thread... I want to know more... lol

  7. #657
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    I Replied to that thread Tage, now you now why my maximum M loses, is one smaller then the ones I brought
    i.e.

    [129R 13M 1S 87E (70R - 116R 1M - 129R 12M)]

    It means I end with
    G, M, S, E

    which is better then only ending with
    G, S, E

    and that why it is 1 round shorter
    Last edited by XiozZe; 04.02.13 at 21:05.

  8. #658
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    great guide worked perfect,thanks alot and well done=-)

  9. #659
    Aunt Irma’s Favourite Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiozZe View Post
    I Replied to that thread Tage, now you now why my maximum M loses, is one smaller then the ones I brought
    i.e.

    [129R 13M 1S 87E (70R - 116R 1M - 129R 12M)]

    It means I end with
    G, M, S, E

    which is better then only ending with
    G, S, E

    and that why it is 1 round shorter
    Just read through that Castle Empire thread that you linked me to...
    Calls for a change on the setups for the attacks on castles on my part...

    Thanks again!



    Quote Originally Posted by craigyc View Post
    great guide worked perfect,thanks alot and well done=-)
    Thanks

  10. #660
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    nice work,Tage
    i0ve done this using your settings,for that quest that requires less than 50s loses,and i don't have veteran.So,only changes i've made was from C to camp 15
    40s60es100xb,and last attack on camp 19,using militia and xb

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