I live on Help tab and I can assure you that what "0 production" means is asked all the time, and sometimes it's not easy to make people understand what it actually means.
If so many people are confused by these quests it can only mean the text *is* confusing.
This is simple and very clear.Originally Posted by Gytha_Ogg
For the "purists", I guess "Make same or more than you produce" could also do
Sto_Helit, I think that the fact that 0 production and positive production are two different things is very relevant here. If the quests were changed from "at least 0 production" to "positive production", they would be different quests (debatably more difficult).
A smart jab, though not so smart as you might think. Weaponsmiths are the final parts of their respective production chains, which is why the quests don't ask you to have "at least 0 production" of swords (damascene or other), but more (60 or 120, I can't remember now - might be it depends on the quest, too). But these weaponsmiths are supported by the production of: bronze, steel, titanium etc., as you well know. If you have a zero production of, say, bronze with your bronze weaponsmiths and/or toolmakers working, then that is balanced economy. Of course it's better to have surplus resources so that you can trade them, but for the quest, it's enough that you can afford an independent economy.
I disagree - I find it much easier to turn production of pinewood planks (for example) to a positive number than to exactly zero; I generally just buff sawmills. That is also usually the sort of advice people get in help when they are trying to understand what at least 0 for every 12 hours means. I think if I had to make exactly 0 every 12 hours for those quests that it would be more difficult than changing negative production to balanced or positive production. It would be similar to making exactly 360 every 12 hours instead of at least 360 every 12 hours: in the first case I have to juggle until the production value is precisely 360, in the second case I can make production 362 and the quest task will complete.
Also, in most cases, 0 is considered to be positive production rather than negative production....
Last edited by Sto_Helit; 11.08.13 at 08:55.
Me thinks you need to re-visit maths class dude.
If you have atleast zero (almost zero but not zero) then you have more than zero (i.e 1 - settlers doesn't support fractions/decimals) and as it can't be a negative number (less than zero) that means a positive production.
Positive production was my idea but gytha_oggs idea of make more than you use would be even better.
Last edited by EternalPink; 11.08.13 at 21:46.
Due to resource shortages I turned all of my bronze making and consuming production off last night, everything is now at a true zero value. Nothing going in and nothing going out, perfect balance. This is still not a good thing.
I am as far from a maths whizz as you will ever find but I know that zero is an absolute value. Like I said "Make more than you use" is a much better way to phrase it as there is no room for confusion that way. The quests themselves do no need to be changed, just the wording.
I don't know that having an exact balance of 0 is either a good or bad thing really, or even that maths need come into it as such but having been much in Help when the "at least 0" quests were new and giving older players massive pains and later with new players suffering the same pains I can say this;
The intent: Teach players how to have a working and balanced economy.
The reality: For whatever reason people often overlook the 'story' part of the text, focus on the "0" and completely miss the "at least" which leads to "I have to have 0 Pinewood so I turned everything off and it still won't!!! What do I do???". Turning everything off does give "at least 0" and is the first thing many people try. Even when the story and the "at least" are noticed it's not at all uncommon to see "How can I have 0 of Bronze and still make 60 for Tools? o.0".
While the story text and quest requirements do try it's clearly not enough and players old and new who have been, and continue to be, baffled by these quests as they are currently written often understand immediately when told "It just means make more than you're using. (And all parts of the quest must be green *at once*.)" While it's not precisely accurate it usually gets the point across better and more quickly than "at least 0" which means it appears to succeed more often at teaching players how to have a working and balanced economy. That simple rephrasing also helps calm the >:[ many people feel when they've been honestly trying but it's not working and it just doesn't seem to make sense. This can only be a good thing.
It's interesting I think to note that other servers have the same difficulties, here's just one thread for one quest from .de Everything Gets Optimal.
Yvory was spot on in observing:
If so many people are confused by these quests it can only mean the text *is* confusing.
Seeing as these quests need a whole guide to explain what they don't mean as well as what they do mean, a change of text would be greatly appreciated. If people weren't struggling so much with understanding the wording of the quest, they could concentrate on the requirements instead, which would be a lot less frustrating for everyone.
another day another explanation of this poorly written quest
simple and clear wording gets my vote - how many, and how long to produce. The quests quite often confuse me, so get deleted - can't do a quest if you don't know what it means or is asking you to do. Simples!
The fact that people are debating what the quest text means in this very suggestion should indicate that perhaps it needs to be reworded...lol. I personally had no idea what the text meant when I first saw it. So i simply buffed the buildings in question to see if that changed anything. This actually worked for the quest I was doing, so I made the association. Now I kind of understand the text.
But yea perhaps it could be reworded to make it clearer.
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