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Thread: Traitors

  1. #31
    Glorious Graduate EternalPink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBranch View Post
    So you come up with losses of 1500+ max. and you find it weird that someone has average losses of 1400?
    You are even telling that person that he can't follow guides or simulators. Please tell the same to Sto_Helit. He'll love hearing it, since he reports also losses around 1400. Ah well...guess he can't read them either.

    And then you tell me to stick with tropical sun which is also a 4-skulls adventure. Also comparable to you? Losses are 232R, 18M, 6C.
    Still nothing off-rated here?
    Sorry but is there a point to this thread now since i'm totally failing (probably my fault) to see your point other than you want some adventures to have 1 less star or 1 more which in the grand scheme of things is going to make no difference to anybody.

    If adventures have longer timers so you can build more/take longer then it is going to be of comparable difficulty to an adventure with a shorter timer (less chance to build, less time to take attacking) so going just by the losses is a poor way of comparing since again some adventures give better/more desired loot than others.

    The valiant little tailor adventure I have is meant to have losses of around 5,000 recruits which I could suddenly say is the worst adventure ever due to the losses etc but it also has a 12 day timer (417 recruits per day to kill/rebuild) and is 3 player so taking those into account its now not the worst adventure ever
    Last edited by EternalPink; 12.08.13 at 21:55.

  2. #32
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    I'm on MrBranch's team with this - I've wondered for a long time how adventures get the ratings they do. I'm not complaining about the timer of the adv, or the troops required to complete (killing all camps or just whatever's required to satisfy the quest and get max xp/loot), it's just a comment on a bizarre and inexplicable rating system. Well, maybe it's not inexplicable to everyone - maybe I just haven't found the explanation yet, but I don't understand it. I've never been quite clear on how the skull ratings are allocated, or what the beige/green/blue etc rosettes mean. I generally don't think much about it and therefore it doesn't bother me, but reading this thread has reminded me that I've asked myself the same questions MB is posting here.

    There's quite a big jump for new players from Bounty Hunter (which should in theory only be done the once as you can't find it with explorers or buy it for mf in the shop, though I know you can get another with a code, or theoretically from TO) at 1 skull, to even Lost Skull at 2 skulls and on to the likes of IOTP with 3. Personally I'd do 10 Tropical Suns with 4 skulls before I'd attempt Traitors which has the same rating of difficulty. On a related note, I'd quite like to see another couple of 1 and 2 skull adventures to help introduce new players to adventuring (and to give the rest of us something quick and easy to do to pass the time if we felt like it) - there's not a lot of choice in the lower levels.

    Anyway, seems like there's a bit of hostility going MB's way over the issue (perhaps misunderstanding of the point of the original post?) so just thought I'd throw my penny in to balance things out a bit.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmian View Post
    Anyway, seems like there's a bit of hostility going MB's way over the issue (perhaps misunderstanding of the point of the original post?) so just thought I'd throw my penny in to balance things out a bit.
    Ah, the reason the argument has gone on so long is partly because MrBranch has been replying to all the posts. From my point of view, I just wanted to know why he seemed to think it was hard, and I had fun arguing that I didn't think it was that hard; just expensive.

    I'm not sure that the 'hostility' is all directed towards MrBranch either: I've been suspected of doing the adventure with more advantages than I have and apparently also accused of not being able to read a combat simulator. For the record, I've only done Traitors once and I admit that it wasn't terribly efficent; I attacked all the camps so my losses were high. However, I have a target to beat for the next time that I do it.

    I'm not sure that anyone will get anywhere with changing the skull rating for this adventure, but it might be nice to have a bit more choice of adventures to do that are reasonable before you get as far as having crossbows. There are lots of challenging adventures for the higher levels now, how about some that are more fun for lower levels?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmian View Post
    I'd quite like to see another couple of 1 and 2 skull adventures to help introduce new players to adventuring (and to give the rest of us something quick and easy to do to pass the time if we felt like it) - there's not a lot of choice in the lower levels.
    +1

    Also give the rest of us an 'easy' way to complete the adventure guild quests when time/troops are short. The anniversary event maps were great for that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sto_Helit View Post
    I'm not sure that anyone will get anywhere with changing the skull rating for this adventure, but it might be nice to have a bit more choice of adventures to do that are reasonable before you get as far as having crossbows. There are lots of challenging adventures for the higher levels now, how about some that are more fun for lower levels?
    Agreed - but not even below the level for crossbows. When I started adventuring I did the Bounty Hunter, and then basically couldn't do anything but Lost Skull for ages because my economy and population couldn't support anything else in line with the time I have available to play. I then upgraded to Tropical Sun (ironically, yes, with 4 skulls), and now I mostly do Pirates or Witch of the Swamp, or share SFTR with a friend - she has a vet (seems like EVERYTHING is much MUCH easier with a vet - hope we can get one at Halloween, I wasn't playing at Easter and I don't buy gems!) and stuff so she does the harder camps, I pick up xp from the easier camps/traps/watchtowers. I'd have liked a bit more variety to get me started, with more of a gradual increase to the more difficult adventures!

    Saying that, I read the forum. I know that 50+ content has been a sore point for a LONG time so it's right that the new stuff should concentrate on them first, just don't forget the little people

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerontius View Post
    I don't understand how this argument has gone one so long.

    Who is arguing

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmian View Post
    I'm on MrBranch's team with this - I've wondered for a long time how adventures get the ratings they do. I'm not complaining about the timer of the adv, or the troops required to complete (killing all camps or just whatever's required to satisfy the quest and get max xp/loot), it's just a comment on a bizarre and inexplicable rating system. Well, maybe it's not inexplicable to everyone - maybe I just haven't found the explanation yet, but I don't understand it. I've never been quite clear on how the skull ratings are allocated, or what the beige/green/blue etc rosettes mean. I generally don't think much about it and therefore it doesn't bother me, but reading this thread has reminded me that I've asked myself the same questions MB is posting here.

    There's quite a big jump for new players from Bounty Hunter (which should in theory only be done the once as you can't find it with explorers or buy it for mf in the shop, though I know you can get another with a code, or theoretically from TO) at 1 skull, to even Lost Skull at 2 skulls and on to the likes of IOTP with 3. Personally I'd do 10 Tropical Suns with 4 skulls before I'd attempt Traitors which has the same rating of difficulty. On a related note, I'd quite like to see another couple of 1 and 2 skull adventures to help introduce new players to adventuring (and to give the rest of us something quick and easy to do to pass the time if we felt like it) - there's not a lot of choice in the lower levels.

    Anyway, seems like there's a bit of hostility going MB's way over the issue (perhaps misunderstanding of the point of the original post?) so just thought I'd throw my penny in to balance things out a bit.


    Bounty hunter isn't a real adventure though its the tutorial adventure that's meant to show you how adventures work in principle, send troops on a general, move troops on a general, kill stuff with troops on general, finish the mission in quest book (its surprising the number of people that use to come to help after doing an adventure and sending all the troops home that hadn't done that) and then get returned home

    You can do it with 80 cav (maybe less so long since I did that one) with zero losses and you get a small amount of XP.

    So if we wish to compare then you need to start with the proper adventures such as horseback, island of pirates, witch of the swamps and so on.
    Last edited by EternalPink; 13.08.13 at 22:03.

  7. #37
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    Let's do so. But perhaps one of the moderators can transfer this whole discussion to a seperate thread then, since this is no longer only about Traitors.

    To begin with. Compare Horseback (3 skulls), Tropical Sun (4 skulls), Dark Priests (3 skulls), The Loss Skull (2 skulls)
    I followed the same strategy: only normal generals, no blocking, defeat mimimum number of camps to complete the adventure, best unit is soldier.

    Total loss Horseback: 304R, 34M, 2B, 127B, 3LB
    Total loss Tropical Sun: 232R, 18M, 6C
    Total loss Dark Priests: 109R, 60S, 50C
    Total loss The Lost Skull: 239R, 8M, 1S

    It's clear that Tropical Sun and the Lost Skull are in the same league. TWO(!!!) skulls difference however.
    Horseback and Dark Priests are also comparable, both more difficult than Tropical Sun, but one skull less than Tropical Sun.

    First conclusion: Tropical Sun to be revaluated to 2-skulls?
    Disagree/Agree?

  8. #38
    Glorious Graduate EternalPink's Avatar
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    I don't have a tropical sun to hand, what's the timer on it?

    Also DP with only 109 recruit losses?, even with a vet I can't manage that so i'm curious how you are and same for horseback



    http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2...kpriestnew.jpg

  9. #39
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    You're asking this to me? You are aware that Gerontius believes that I can't read walkthoughs and that I'm not capable of using the simulator?
    But, if you really want to know..


    For Dark Priests, did you see that I lost 60 soldiers and 50 cavalry?

    Two main things explaining it:
    Some of the camps in the witch sector can be attacked with mainly cavalry, if you're willing to accept the losses of some cavalry with each fight.
    Also the last camp could exlain some: 40 Cultists, 40 Dark Priests, 40 Shadowsneakers, 1 Dark High Priest. You could throw in a high amount of recruits, but you could also chose to attack with 50R, 150S and accept a loss of about 32 soldiers in this fight.

    For Horseback, I recently added my walkthrough in this post:

  10. #40
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    Don't see a horseback walkthrough from you in this thread (or you link's not appearing)

    Total loss Horseback: 304R, 34M, 2B, 127B, 3LB
    Total loss Tropical Sun: 232R, 18M, 6C
    Total loss Dark Priests: 109R, 60S, 50C
    Total loss The Lost Skull: 239R, 8M, 1S

    Why are you choosing to lose higher value units that are more expensive and time consuming to train over recruits? (thought you'd written that wrong originally which is why I asked about the 109 recruits)

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