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Thread: Science is bit... expensive

  1. #1
    Nifty
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    Science is bit... expensive

    As some have noticed, the price of manuscripts go up as you make them. There's a website showing how fast the prices actually increase: (hopes the forums allow a link outside) http://www.settlersonlinewiki.eu/gui...tem-geologist/

    Now if you take a look at that, primary thing to realise is that very soon tomes start taking 2 manuscripts, then 3, 4 and so on. And codex taking 2 tomes, then 3. This on top of the fact that manuscripts increase in cost too, exponentially. But math is tricky, so here are some rough numbers. For simplicity's sake, I counted a set of skills with 10 manuscripts, 10 tomes and 10 codex. That's only 30/31, so actual cost for leveling one geologist (or later explorer etc. if nothing changes) is slightly more. Or less, if you pick lower skills on purpose to save a bit. But back to the point. If those numbers are in fact correct, already your 5th special character to skill up would cost you no less than:
    - 72000 gold coins
    - 1.8 million simple paper
    - 1.4 million nibs

    Ok, that's expensive but maybe you can handle it. 6th set of skillups costs about 10 times more. 7th would cost so much more you don't even want to know. Compound interest truly is the greatest force in the universe. I know some people who were planning on skilling up all their 10-15 geologists. Some have started already, spreading books among all of them. I feel sorry for them already.

    So, what I'm hoping to hear is one of the following:
    1) the website is wrong, the prices don't climb up that fast and tomes and codexes do not use more than 1 book of previous level, ever
    2) when next set of skills are introduced, prices are reset back to original (allowing us another few characters to skill up with reasonable prices)
    3) when next set of skills are introduced (the explorer for example), different three books will be used for skilling up that character type. And those three new books will start their prices from low like current ones. This would allow continuing geologists at high price, or doing explorers cheap. It would also prevent stockpiling current books in order to immediately level up an explorer to high level.
    4) the website can be interpreted so that price increase for manuscripts stops after 91st book ... if that's the case, there's hope

    As you might guess, my favorite would be option 3 there.

    One might ask why am I worried about some issue that will not be any problem until months later. Well, it actually is a problem already. If I spend books on 3-4 geologists today, by the time the explorers come available, I might not be able to afford making books for them at all. Or the generals the latest. So what I do now may totally ruin my game later.
    Last edited by Borotaur; 07.07.13 at 09:40.

  2. #2
    Nifty
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    I noticed it today. My 11th manuscript is more expensive than 10 previous. Expensive by 10 %. Although the base price is even expensive by itself. I hope they will at least change it to fixed amounts of resources, else it's a dead end.

  3. #3
    Ruler of the Land
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    It's worse than you think, I have not as yet seen anyone mention how much exotic wood and titanium ore will be needed to make codex's. I calculate it will require 5400 exo wood and 3600 ore per codex to skill up my last NPC. So basically If you have enough NPC's you will reach a point where you are going to have problems supplying the res to make bookends and advanced paper.

  4. #4
    Nifty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorotheus View Post
    It's worse than you think, I have not as yet seen anyone mention how much exotic wood and titanium ore will be needed to make codex's. I calculate it will require 5400 exo wood and 3600 ore per codex to skill up my last NPC. So basically If you have enough NPC's you will reach a point where you are going to have problems supplying the res to make bookends and advanced paper.
    I honestly wouldn't worry about the exo wood and titanium ore. By the time codex price gets that high, you're already paying billion trillion paper for manuscripts. In fact, as you'll be spending more and more time on making those extra manuscripts, your daily average consumption for advanced paper and fittings will actually go down as prices climb, not up.

  5. #5
    Original Serf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borotaur View Post
    As some have noticed, the price of manuscripts go up as you make them. There's a website showing how fast the prices actually increase: (hopes the forums allow a link outside) http://www.settlersonlinewiki.eu/gui...tem-geologist/

    Now if you take a look at that, primary thing to realise is that very soon tomes start taking 2 manuscripts, then 3, 4 and so on. And codex taking 2 tomes, then 3. This on top of the fact that manuscripts increase in cost too, exponentially. But math is tricky, so here are some rough numbers. For simplicity's sake, I counted a set of skills with 10 manuscripts, 10 tomes and 10 codex. That's only 30/31, so actual cost for leveling one geologist (or later explorer etc. if nothing changes) is slightly more. Or less, if you pick lower skills on purpose to save a bit. But back to the point. If those numbers are in fact correct, already your 5th special character to skill up would cost you no less than:
    - 72000 gold coins
    - 1.8 million simple paper
    - 1.4 million nibs

    Ok, that's expensive but maybe you can handle it. 6th set of skillups costs about 10 times more. 7th would cost so much more you don't even want to know. Compound interest truly is the greatest force in the universe. I know some people who were planning on skilling up all their 10-15 geologists. Some have started already, spreading books among all of them. I feel sorry for them already.

    So, what I'm hoping to hear is one of the following:
    1) the website is wrong, the prices don't climb up that fast and tomes and codexes do not use more than 1 book of previous level, ever
    2) when next set of skills are introduced, prices are reset back to original (allowing us another few characters to skill up with reasonable prices)
    3) when next set of skills are introduced (the explorer for example), different three books will be used for skilling up that character type. And those three new books will start their prices from low like current ones. This would allow continuing geologists at high price, or doing explorers cheap. It would also prevent stockpiling current books in order to immediately level up an explorer to high level.

    As you might guess, my favorite would be option 3 there.

    One might ask why am I worried about some issue that will not be any problem until months later. Well, it actually is a problem already. If I spend books on 3-4 geologists today, by the time the explorers come available, I might not be able to afford making books for them at all. Or the generals the latest. So what I do now may totally ruin my game later.

    I would ask you to show all your maths, but that might take awhile. Just explain how you got to 72k coins and I think we can stop wasting people's time

  6. #6
    Original Serf
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    Interesting....
    The real question for me is....
    What happens when your explorers, general, and your other buildings are included in the science system??!
    Will there be another science system, where the prices start all over, or will we continue on the, at that time, high prices??
    If we continue with the prices, as they are after the upgrades of the geologists, then the first codex for the first explorer will be extremely gigantic from the first codex??!
    I wonder what BB is thinking about this, and whether there is room for optimization and adjustment of the system all in all???
    Thanks for an interesting thread.
    I'll be watching this!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakee View Post
    I would ask you to show all your maths, but that might take awhile. Just explain how you got to 72k coins and I think we can stop wasting people's time
    Don't be so harsh.. I think, based on the talk in the help chat, that Borotaur acturaly is right..
    I think this discussion is realy important, and I think that to many explanations would only confuse many players and many would chose not to participate in this discussion, so I think its ok that he has not included the detailed description of all the calculations.

  8. #8
    Nifty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakee View Post
    I would ask you to show all your maths, but that might take awhile. Just explain how you got to 72k coins and I think we can stop wasting people's time
    Ok, simplified numbers, assuming 10+10+10 skills to reach 30/31. If you're L50, make one more codex. But these numbers give you a pretty good ballpark figure.

    Geo 1:
    30x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 330 gc, 8.3k simple paper, 6.6k nibs, ...

    Geo2: each tome now requires 2 manuscripts
    50x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 810 gc, 20k simple paper, 16k nibs, ...

    Geo3: each tome now requires 3 manuscripts
    70x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 2k gc, 50k simple paper, 40k nibs, ...

    Geo4: each codex now requires 2 tomes, each tome now requires 4 manuscripts (first 20), then 5 manuscripts (last 10)
    140x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 12k gc, 290k simple paper, 230k nibs, ...

    Geo5: each tome now requires 5 manuscripts (first 10), then 6 manuscripts (last 20)
    180x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 72k gc, 1.8M simple paper, 1.4M nibs, ...

    Geo6: each tome now requires 7 manuscripts (first 20), then 8 manuscripts (last 10)
    230x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: ... far too much ...

  9. #9
    Original Serf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borotaur View Post

    Geo 1:
    30x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 330 gc, 8.3k simple paper, 6.6k nibs, ...

    Geo2: each tome now requires 2 manuscripts
    50x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 810 gc, 20k simple paper, 16k nibs, ...

    Geo3: each tome now requires 3 manuscripts
    70x manuscript, 20x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 2k gc, 50k simple paper, 40k nibs, ...

    Geo4: each codex now requires 2 tomes, each tome now requires 4 manuscripts (first 20), then 5 manuscripts (last 10)
    140x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 12k gc, 290k simple paper, 230k nibs, ...

    Geo5: each tome now requires 5 manuscripts (first 10), then 6 manuscripts (last 20)
    180x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: 72k gc, 1.8M simple paper, 1.4M nibs, ...

    Geo6: each tome now requires 7 manuscripts (first 20), then 8 manuscripts (last 10)
    230x manuscript, 30x tome, 10x codex
    Total cost: ... far too much ...
    LOL..... Thanx for the depressing calculations!!! xD

  10. #10
    Pathfinder
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    Why on earth should something that does not do any different each time it is used (any book) increase in production costs. Typical BB, the more i read about you the more I want to quit.

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