Woodcutter changes will IMPACT the economy!

[Iolanthe]

The: link from .net in the original post (well worth a read for info on the equally awkward behavior of Foresters) and this, nicked from the Test forum, together explain and show the problem quite tidily:

Situation
3 level 5 woodcutters that are close to each other, all choose the same deposit to work on.
The deposit only contains 10 trees.

Old behaviour
The 3 woodcutters start to work on the deposit and when they are done they all have a log.

New behaviour
The 3 woodcutters start to work on the deposit and when they are done they 2 of them have a log, but the third wasted his entire cycle and comes back emptyhanded. To illustrate what I mean see:

Question
It's obvious that the old behaviour was unwanted, and that it could be easily abused, but is this really the behaviour you changed it to? Or rather an unfortunate side-effect?

Suggestion for improvement
My suggestion for improvement would be to let the cutter acquire a "lock" and then starts walking to that deposit. If a cutter has a "lock" on a deposit, no other cutter can get a lock on that deposit and thus has to choose another deposit. This way the cutter won't be spending a cycle doing nothing.

...

Original - Woodcutter behaviour

Cheers RonPope and Fexno

Personally, and Flaming Skullheads aside, having met Titanium and implausibly few women in these Olde Worlde Islands, I can't say I'm too picky about realism but looking at it from that standpoint I certainly hope my lumberjacks aren't quite so dimwitted as to all go stumping off to a teeny stand of Trees when there are abundant forests.

No-one really seems to be asking for compensation, just that the 'fix' (For something I strongly suspect works exactly as it was told to even if what it was told to do doesn't quite make sense.) make better sense than the original 'problem'. As it works now this is not the case and Woodcutters who have traditionally behaved as though they have a bit of magic about them now act like they've all fallen on their heads repeatedly and come home time and again with nothing.

More comments and suggestions can be found in the first few threads here: http://forum.tsotesting.com/search.php?searchid=133039. Since this is, thankfully, still 'testing' the threads in the Test forum are also a good place to offer feedback. Whatever ones opinion, if you'd like it heard before this goes live, it's a good idea to post there as well.

[Hairy]

*slowly shakes head in disbelief* ~ not because I'm worried about the changes, (I'm not), but because BB managed to get something so fundamentally basic so wrong for so long.

I'm glad I recently moved my pine wood production from sector 4 where there are only 4 convenient deposits to sector 2 where there are loads.
I'm not impressed that cutters will waste cylces going for deposits that will yield nothing, & think the 'lock' (calling dibs) idea is a good one.
I have the 3:2 ratio and enough deposits that I think my guys will be able to function OK, and the thought that players have knowingly exploited the old/current behaviour and find themselves needing 20 new foresters with no space for them just makes me laugh.

Bring it on!

[Steve1077]

If this is how it works its dumb! I've always used the 3-2 ratio but if that no longer works on areas where cuters use the same trees they need to think again, I'm sure most of mine use different areas but now and then they may overlap.
I take it if the deposit is more than the cutters use they will all get a log? I have an area of 100 hardwood trees with 2 level 5 cutters and 3 level 5 planters, so that should be okay?

[Gijsbrecht]

I have the 3:2 ratio and enough deposits that I think my guys will be able to function OK.

It won't, i'm using this ratio as well. But people have tested it on the test servers and are running out of pinewood fast with this ratio. So most likely everyone will need additional foresters OR lose a lot of production. I think it's wrong for BB to leave the bug working as it is for so long and then change it so that it changes the economy in pretty big ways; if you have used up all your licences you need to rebuild large parts of the economy. So they need to make sure they fix this in a proper way.

Bigger tree deposits? or maybe a 1:1 ratio for foresters and wootcutters? maybe both?!

[Yvory]

Be happy for what you got, and build a balanced production line.

I have the 3:2 ratio and enough deposits that I think my guys will be able to function OK

Pinewood ratios

3 foresters x 2 cutters ---> 4 sawmills
3 foresters x 2 cutters ---> 2 coking plants

Perfect ratio: 9 foresters, 6 cutters, 4 sawmills, 4 coking plants.

With that setup at level 5 you'll have a log production of about -3.5 K / 12h (yes, negative).

Do you get it now?


p.s. hopefully they'll fix this, thanks to RonEmpire who first observed and reported it.

[Dorotheus]

All I've seen on the test servers is one player screaming about how this nerfs things up without providing us with the information why he thinks this.

[RonPope]

All I've seen on the test servers is one player screaming about how this nerfs things up without providing us with the information why he thinks this.

You obviously have not been reading my postings. I'm screaming nerfs on the test server BUT I also provide detailed information on why. Please do some more research. The developers have the information.

I also provided a link to my detailed information the .net in the opening posting.

[RonPope]

*slowly shakes head in disbelief* ~ not because I'm worried about the changes, (I'm not), but because BB managed to get something so fundamentally basic so wrong for so long.

What baffles me more is that their attempt to 'fix' something that is fundamentally basic is wrong AGAIN and worst than intended.

Developers/Programmers apparently do not play their games otherwise they would not make such awful design mistakes.

(I'll admit as well, that I have worked at a game company on an mmo game, and fixing bugs and such. I do not play the games regularly like the normal players do. So I can understand how they can screw it up and overlook things. We just all need to keep this in mind that whatever they dish out to us is NOT always correct and we should always be testing it out before they assume its okay. People don't bother testing trivial things until it goes live.)

[Raven_Prince]

i personally dont mind if they change this, if they make a proper change of it.

ok, so only 1 cutter will walk away with a load, thats ok, IF they also add the "brains"to the cutters to see where they can get a full load, so if 1 cutter is already heading to a spot, and will empty it, the next cutter goes to a spot that will be full once his cycle ends. you could even take it so far that it also looks at forester times, looking if a spot will be refilled before the cutter cycle ends.

if theyre only going to change it so only the first cutter walks away with a load of wood, and the rest nothing, it will be a huge nerf or you will have to try to find a setup where chances for this are low, which will be a huge pain meaning either finding spots with ONLY 25log stocks around, which may not even exist in good spots, or spread out the cutters so they dont run to the same deposit usually. either way, a pain to change

[Yvory]

All I've seen on the test servers is one player screaming about how this nerfs things up without providing us with the information why he thinks this.

He provided *plenty* of information, check better the linked thread here and in his posts there.

If you're on test you can also see results for yourself in economy overview, knowing how many buildings you have and how your production should be.

i personally dont mind if they change this, if they make a proper change of it.

I agree, I'm all for fixing exploit, problem is the way the change works now is much more a problem than a fix.

which will be a huge pain meaning either finding spots with ONLY 25log stocks around, which may not even exist in good spots, or spread out the cutters so they dont run to the same deposit usually. either way, a pain to change

Exactly, for this to work you should spread all cutters and forester all over your island, making sure they all use different deposits, problem with this (other than having to move a hell lot of buildings) is that with actual production times, foresters can't keep up with cutters, so you may end up having to build 2 foresters for 1 cutter to keep your production steady.