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Thread: General limit by size for PVP-islands

  1. #11
    Keen Commentor EctoRune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PChamps View Post
    Like said above also if you agree on a limit then what stops me sending 3 veterans and a major general (on say a 4 limit max of generals) to someone who only has 4 normal generals?

    Until we actually know what PvP is going to involve then its quite difficult to have a discussion like this.
    Well the limit would stop you from doing that. The implementation would require that you agree on exactly what each player gets to bring. This could be done in a number of ways, but obviously saying "3 generals of any kind" would be extremely flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brankovics View Post
    Because of home island inviolability such limitation is pointless. If PvP comes to live, participation shoud be based on free will --- everybody can decide the question of risks.
    It's not pointless, it's the only way the system will be worth anything. Yes, it'll be based on free will participation, but it should still be implemented in a way that makes it actually attractive to join in. Otherwise, they might as well not develop it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brankovics View Post
    It is no question of the design, who win; a totally balanced chances could make a very boring gameplay. Must be a way for wit and creativity, not only for the power. Other hand, "overpowered" gamers can not be everywhere, so there should be plenty of occasions for "balanced" chance battles...
    This is a very bold, and very wrong statement. Balance is necessary for a game to be good. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, and it doesn't have to be symmetrical balance, but it has to be good enough that both players have a chance of winning. If victory is a foregone conclusion for either player, the system is worthless. Look at any e-sport to see that the creators constantly strive to balance the game in such a way that either side always has a chance to win.
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  2. #12
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    I would not even join in PvP if all my time in this game and real money spent on gems to better myself did not give me an advantage I am sure many other players will feel the same way.

  3. #13
    Wordsmith Larili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PChamps View Post
    I would not even join in PvP if all my time in this game and real money spent on gems to better myself did not give me an advantage I am sure many other players will feel the same way.
    Isn't this why A player only `controlled' pvp system will never work?...Nobody is going to play to lose, so knowing in advance what your opposition is going/likely to bring to the party means very few will be pressing the `accept' button.
    The only way PVP could work in this game ` for real time strategists' is for the system to randomise the starting positions of the two or more players. For example, this would mean that both the starting position on the island would be random and the number/type of generals that made it to the island both at initial send and subsequent reinforcement. ( some generals and troops would be randomly lost at sea, generals would arrive `injured' and need to recover before continuing to participate ).
    The only other option I can see to make things `fair' between players is `guild wars', where the resources of entire guilds should even out any individual players advantage, and an appointed guild player to do the actual fighting with perhaps a fixed amount of PVP generals all ready on the island and players generals only used as transports. This latter idea of having `pre-set PVP generals' may go someway in controlling the inevitable lag issue too, and allow for a variety of difficulty settings and loot rewards, but I'm not really a pvp sort of player so not sure if this meets the criteria
    Are we to be told of adventure changes or not? 1 Month on and still SNEAKY RB changes have not been mentioned

  4. #14
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    How do you know what the opposition is going to bring? If you have islands that anyone can visit that have say resources on and you land there you have no idea who else is going to find it and attack.. for all you know your 10 generals could kill all that come or someone will bring 14 generals and slaughter you.

    I don't like the idea of a PvP system where you simply challenge someone and then both visit an island and fight that is no fun.

    There are so many theories/questions/ideas about how the PvP system will be that is why I do not think one exists yet as BB have no idea how to structure it.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoRune View Post
    ...the only way the system will be worth anything...
    This is one opinion. Someones thinks else. So not the only way. Try to get to know each other's views in details, so everybody win a little.
    I imagine a more complex PvP, not only combats, but utilize resources of such outer islands. Better economic skills could give a new dimension.

    This is a very bold, and very wrong statement. Balance is necessary for a game to be good...
    Don't mix up balance and predetermined 'chances'. Too much or too hard limitations make a calculable and static gameplay, and imho a little bit boring. There should be some (indirect) limitations, they should come by terrain, free places, time etc. to give bigger chances for that, who can adapt to the condition better. So balance is needed between power and tricks, skills, capabilities and luck.

    ...it doesn't have to be symmetrical balance, ... If victory is a foregone conclusion for either player, the system is worthless.
    Somehow we are in the same boot. But if a severe rule restrict the participants, everybody try to act on max level, hence the result will be foregone, same like in adventures. Also not incidental witch type of PvP comes if at all. There was a more or less good poll about this. Some are more compatible with restrictions, others are less.

    And again, if home land remain intact, and play PvP on own decision, than everybody has a hinterland, more than a fat chance not to loose more than invested to a PvP island.

  6. #16
    Keen Commentor EctoRune's Avatar
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    Brankovics, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as adversarial, but I don't think you really have a leg to stand on in this debate. Look to any competitive game with a thriving community: Starcraft 2, DOTA 2, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Street Fighter IV. These are extremely diverse games with completely different gameplay, but they all have one thing in common: Every game is started on equal footing. You don't get to start a game of Starcraft with 5000 minerals because you have a big homebase. You don't get to start a game of Counter-Strike with a full set of body armor and weapons, and you don't get to bring healing potions into a game of Street Fighter. This is completely necessary for a solid competitive game.


    My suggestion would be a point system. You sign up for a fight at a certain point level, say 10000. Then you each get to use those 10000 points to put together the army you want to send. A regular general is cheap, as are recruits. Bringing a major general with cannons is going to cost a lot of points, but obviously be extremely powerful to compensate. This would allow each player to plan their own strategy, and it would allow low level players to sign up for fights at a point level that won't bankrupt their entire island, and won't allow higher level players to run them over with superior forces. It would also, importantly, make sure that each game starts out equally.
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  7. #17
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    I dont think Counter strike or Street fighter can be used as examples (not played the others so cannot comment) these are games that reset every time you join, settlers you build and it continues to build even when you are offline. counter strike and street fighter do not have in game purchases that make you better (like gems to buy more life's etc)

    What I do and spend for my army on my own island should reflect what I can do in PvP otherwise that takes the point out of buying gems and making trades to better yourself in the first place. In a world (and game) where money talks I don't think this is room for equally.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PChamps
    What I do and spend for my army on my own island should reflect what I can do in PvP otherwise that takes the point out of buying gems and making trades to better yourself in the first place.
    You can probably do a lot more PvP Battles and that way get more out of it (all).

  9. #19
    Keen Commentor EctoRune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PChamps View Post
    I dont think Counter strike or Street fighter can be used as examples (not played the others so cannot comment) these are games that reset every time you join, settlers you build and it continues to build even when you are offline. counter strike and street fighter do not have in game purchases that make you better (like gems to buy more life's etc)

    What I do and spend for my army on my own island should reflect what I can do in PvP otherwise that takes the point out of buying gems and making trades to better yourself in the first place. In a world (and game) where money talks I don't think this is room for equally.
    I have an idea for a system you'll think is totally awesome.

    Two players enter, but before the fight each player enters their credit card info. Then each player takes turn paying €5 until one player doesn't want to spend any more money. Then that player loses.

    I think you'll find my idea here is as compelling and exciting as your suggestion, while saving a lot of time cutting out such silly irrelevancies as skill and strategic thinking, which aren't really what should determine the outcome of a battle anyway, right? Then money will really talk!
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoRune View Post
    I have an idea for a system you'll think is totally awesome.

    Two players enter, but before the fight each player enters their credit card info. Then each player takes turn paying €5 until one player doesn't want to spend any more money. Then that player loses.

    I think you'll find my idea here is as compelling and exciting as your suggestion, while saving a lot of time cutting out such silly irrelevancies as skill and strategic thinking, which aren't really what should determine the outcome of a battle anyway, right? Then money will really talk!
    You are being a bit silly now which probably means I need to end this discussion with you.

    If I want a fair fight I will turn counter strike on and have the game reset after every match making it fair. If I want to build an empire on here and use money to buy gems to get better items (vet gens, extra explorers, etc) I will and when the time comes that PvP is introduced I want to be able to use everything that may give me an advantage.

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