lost community

[Sir_Killemall]

Second that.
They don't run around screaming "I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to collect a one-time-reward only once, I thought one-time means 'As often as you like' --- it's unfair that I have to pay it back and I won't because I have the right to keep the advantage I gained over those who used the one-time reward only once!"

Remember: Nobody got banned if they paid back exactly what they got.
The only people who got banned were those who actually sold their Storehouses at dumping prices and couldn't afford to buy them back.
But all of these people knew [ removed ] that they were taking advantage of others, because who would buy an item for tons of resources when you could obtain it in infinite quantity for free?

Yes. They took advantage of others and BB got back at them for doing it.
And now they claim "We never hurt anyone".

They did hurt legitimate players by flooding the market and hide behind the blanket of "I only got advantage for myself".
Yeah, but with whose coins/granite/beans?



Hello Sharpielein,

No profanity on the forum please.

Thank you,
Fexno

Problem is, and always is that with assumption you can make incorrect statements. I refer to one person, who gave away all, not just the extras but all of their ISHs to new people to give them a boost. They couldn't get them back, as is unfortunately the case, alot of those players quit around level 35, when the game slows down and they realise its not for them.

This person agreed they should pay them back, and did pay some back but could not secure all they needed within the time, despite trying. BB gave them the run around and in the end they got banned. I think the issue was not what BB wanted to do, but the fact it was impossible to engage them in conversation, we have all been on the end of cut and paste replies from support that don't really answer the questions asked.
If they had allowed a much more reasonable time it would have been far less painful, they took far too long to make a decision then expected people to be able to return them immediately.

[Lord_Thomas]

I don't play a lot of MMOs.

I thought it was a common rule in all MMO games that "any persons that takes advantage of any reported or unreported bugs will be punished."

I am sure that this rule was created to promote fair play.

I would have thought that it would be very common and self evident to all MMO players whether it is stated explicitly or implied in TSO rules and regulations.

If everyone can agree that it is a very common rule for all MMOs, I would think that there is strictly no excuse for anyone at all on this topic.

[Sharpielein]

Problem is, and always is that with assumption you can make incorrect statements. I refer to one person, who gave away all, not just the extras but all of their ISHs to new people to give them a boost. They couldn't get them back, as is unfortunately the case, alot of those players quit around level 35, when the game slows down and they realise its not for them.

Well, so they gave players items which they knew that those players shouldn't have in the first place "to give them a boost". So far, so good.
These players could have legitimately obtained the boost - if it was needed - by spending a couple of gems and buying them from the Merchant Chest; alternatively by buying them from the Trade Office (from players who invest real money to buy gems to increase their ingame wealth).

Cut it however you will, each ISH brought into the game through the bug reduces the demand for storebought ISH, thereby hitting Bluebyte in the Wallet.

You have to see it from that perspective. Bluebyte suffered financial loss and they did something about it. We can argue all day long about whether it was the best course of action, but cut it however you want - they are the service provider, effectively they took a financial hit and it's well within their rights to undo the damage.

Nobody would have been banned if they did invest the gems to buy as many storehouses as they had brought into the game. Effectively, Bluebyte was seeking financial restitution and everyone who didn't want to go down that road ... well, it's just a game but I don't wanna see what a bank would do if through a software bug you'd be able to withdraw 5x as much money as you had in your account. I bet it wouldn't end with a simple ban of service

[Jim_B]

Bluebyte suffered financial loss and they did something about it... (snip)...they are the service provider, effectively they took a financial hit and it's well within their rights to undo the damage.

Nobody would have been banned if they did invest the gems to buy as many storehouses as they had brought into the game. Effectively, Bluebyte was seeking financial restitution and everyone who didn't want to go down that road ... well, it's just a game but I don't wanna see what a bank would do if through a software bug you'd be able to withdraw 5x as much money as you had in your account. I bet it wouldn't end with a simple ban of service

Spot on! Perfectly sums it up. What people did with the ISHs after exploiting the bug is irrelevant; whether it was selfish or altruistic does not change the fact that they exploited a bug (which is different to using an unanticipated consequence of *correct code*, which is what blocking is, so let's not try putting up that strawman). If anyone was banned, it was because they thought Bluebyte were firing out empty threats or they refused to invest real money to get themselves out of a mess of their own making.

[Aelneri]

This whole ban-fest is just stupid.
All joy has been lost in the game when this stupid bug came to pass.

When a software engineer makes a mistake, the mistake should not punish the users, but the software engineer.

If your employer gives you your salary 2 times instead of one, you are only asked to repay. Not banned from the Office beacause you can't repay.

[Baggis]

If your employer mistakenly allowed you the opportunity to draw your salary multiple times and you spotted this fact and drew your salary twenty times, you'd be sacked, there'd be police involvement for fraud and you'd have to repay all of the money under the proceeds of crime act. That is the real world.

In Pegi-7 land:

BB identified people that knowingly exploited the bug, gave them a warning and gave them two clear opportunities to return that which was wrongly taken. If they chose to exploit a bug and then chose not to make amends when requested twice then they got what they deserved!

As for the people that say they gave them away: if I steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket and give it to a homeless person sat outside, it wouldn't change the fact that I'd just stolen a loaf of bread would it? It's easy to be generous with other people's money is it not?

Sometimes everyone does wrong but if they aren't prepared to pay for their mistakes and put right then they are fair game!

[EctoRune]

This whole ban-fest is just stupid.
All joy has been lost in the game when this stupid bug came to pass.

When a software engineer makes a mistake, the mistake should not punish the users, but the software engineer.

If your employer gives you your salary 2 times instead of one, you are only asked to repay. Not banned from the Office beacause you can't repay.

I really like your metaphor because it so clearly rebuts your argument.

If your employer pays you double, they'll ask you for the money back. Sort of like BB did when they sent out the mail giving people the chance to give the storehouses back. Then, if you refuse to pay back half of your double-salary, you should expect your workplace to fire you, and also take legal action to obtain back their money. A pretty spot on parallel for what BB did.

[fishslice]

I'm enjoying this thread tremendously.
A group of players (many from the same guild I believe) start a thread to engender the community to come together in the expectation that they can persuade BB and the rest of the playing community that what they did was not their fault and it was all BB's fault. Instead BB keep quiet and watch as the majority basically refute the claim that they did no wrong and it wasn't their fault.
It reinforces my view of the game and the majority of the people that play TSO. This is primarily a trading game that relies heavily on trust. It speaks volumes that if given the keys to the larder we don't all scoff our faces and take advantage of BB and others.

[Astraldimension]

Greed isnt that popular to talk about in this community based game...
I think its better to skip thinking about it and move on.

[Sharpielein]

If your employer gives you your salary 2 times instead of one, you are only asked to repay. Not banned from the Office beacause you can't repay.

Hmm, I think you're approaching this from the wrong angle.
Imagine you offer someone a piece of candy, and they take your wallet and your car key.

I think you should get punished for that, not the person taking your stuff ...

Hmm, which reminds me ...

Can I have a cookie, please?