Re: Weapons in Loot

[missy1962]

Dear BB,

Even though I have no idea why you felt the need to take weapons out of adventure loot, it is now becoming apparent to many players that this wasnt a good idea. Even at level 50, it is difficult to get your elite weapons balanced and also to get enough of them.
The weapon issue then flows down the levels to the newbies, they are having a great deal of difficulty with iron and steel swords which at the best of times are expensive to buy in TO and slow to produce.
It is my suggestion that you put the weapons back into adventure loot as it will then balance things out again, including cutting back the ridiculously high weapon prices in TO.
Thanks in advance.
Kindest Regards,
missy1962

[Sharpielein]

Maybe make an additional weapon slot where a -low- amount of elite weapons is awarded, maybe 100 Xbows/Dams/Cans.

I do not see much of a problem for lowlevels: losing militia or soldiers on lower levels is rare anyways: the main difference is while in the past, losing militia or soldiers was unattractive, now it's prohibitive. The result, however, is the same - players lv40 will hardly use these troops in anything that would lose them.

What I do see a problem with is crossbowmen for midlevels (40-47) as in the past, Crossbows were glorified bowmen, now they'll soon be nearly impossible to obtain.


I wouldn't mind occasionally losing cannoneers, but I've lost over 500 of them (=5k cannons) thanks to, ehum, "features" of the game like general multiattacks, random troop reassignment, hopping generals and whatever. I do have a problem with a game that makes you lose months of work due to bugs, then removes any and all means to recoup your losses.

I am seriously afraid of the long-term price of crossbows and cannons. If I didn't miscalculate, 1 Crossbowman will cost roughly 100 coins and 1 Cannoneer roughly 300 coins in about 6 months: Losing a batch of 200 cannoneers will cost roughly as much as upgrading an entire island from level 3 to level 4.

[fishslice]

I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.

The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.


Additionally people have said many times on this forum that they no longer feel the need for the large bread lines they once had due to the number of settlers dropped from adventures and the extra settlers available from Village Schools. Also with the inclusion of grout many buildings are able to be upgraded to Level 6. These factors mean that many people will be complaining about loss of weapons but still have islands that overproduce lots of basics which they are happy to sell for profit. Maybe people will realise that they cant have an island that over produces in one area for trade purposes but then under produces in another area such as weapons without having a price to pay.


I don't even see Iron production being an issue, lots of iron is now becoming available with extra Iron or Iron Fillers being dropped in loot. I do think coal will be a problem but then again this is where those that have the Epic Workyard (or 2) will be at an advantage and as such those that invest in Gems will again see them selves at a time advantage over free to play players.


We are getting to a position where Epic Adventures truly are truly Epic (with the XP and Star Coins being the main reward and not just a profit source) whilst Fairytale Adventures are the types of adventure that cant be done in 3-4 hours anymore but do become the Adventures for those that are not faint of heart and have the resources to undertake a deed of hardship and worthy of Fairytales in the quest for those mythical rewards. Rather than the situation today where a decent player is able to get all the items worth having from beans and beanstalks within a month.


People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.


Regards
fish

[CrazyBat]

People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.


Regards
fish

Which people were that? The ones that were level 50 already and felt they have nothing more to do and also probably felt that it is too easy to come to level 50 while they already become one. I would love to see those that wanted this to be reset back to level 33 and their stocked weapons taken away from them. I think they'd love it. If what you say is true, is there a reason why they wouldn't love it?

Hmmm

[Sheddoe]

I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.

The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.


Additionally people have said many times on this forum that they no longer feel the need for the large bread lines they once had due to the number of settlers dropped from adventures and the extra settlers available from Village Schools. Also with the inclusion of grout many buildings are able to be upgraded to Level 6. These factors mean that many people will be complaining about loss of weapons but still have islands that overproduce lots of basics which they are happy to sell for profit. Maybe people will realise that they cant have an island that over produces in one area for trade purposes but then under produces in another area such as weapons without having a price to pay.


I don't even see Iron production being an issue, lots of iron is now becoming available with extra Iron or Iron Fillers being dropped in loot. I do think coal will be a problem but then again this is where those that have the Epic Workyard (or 2) will be at an advantage and as such those that invest in Gems will again see them selves at a time advantage over free to play players.


We are getting to a position where Epic Adventures truly are truly Epic (with the XP and Star Coins being the main reward and not just a profit source) whilst Fairytale Adventures are the types of adventure that cant be done in 3-4 hours anymore but do become the Adventures for those that are not faint of heart and have the resources to undertake a deed of hardship and worthy of Fairytales in the quest for those mythical rewards. Rather than the situation today where a decent player is able to get all the items worth having from beans and beanstalks within a month.


People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.


Regards
fish

+1 and well said.

IMO this game has struggled in the past to balance giving entertainment whilst providing a challenge.
TSO is a long-haul game and too many rewards were given too soon. Some players became bored.
The point is to USE high-level production chains, not find a way round them.
OK, you can argue that resources needed, production times and upgrades could be tweaked or better balanced and that is what BB should be monitoring and making those changes where necessary.
We have all these great buildings to play with so BB has now got to make it appealing to do so.
Dropping specific resources is a good idea (if balanced), but they could drop the odd specific buff too (ie damascene hammer etc) to help out further
I find it appealing that there is now a more "settlement managing" way to progress than just endless adventuring and giveaway lootdrops

[missy1962]

Thanks for the feedback guys, however I have just today reached level 50 for the third time in a little over 2 years....as I came back before the weapons were taken out of the loot it wasnt so hard. However, my daughter is playing settlers now and is nearly mid range in levels and is struggling with getting weapons. For those of us that have played since the inception or just after of the game, its not hard for us to adapt to the changes that have been made, although it would be nice to see the elite weapons (xbow, dammy's, and cannon's) put back into the adventure loot. Even if its only 100 of each or just of one. Its truly hard to balance your cannon production to get a good result. In saying that I'm not giving up on settlers.

[Sharpielein]

I must be one of the few that is happy with this idea of no weapons from loot.

The way I see it is that BB felt the problem was that once people had made 200 Crossbow Men, 200 Elite Soldiers and 200 Cannon Men that was it, game over for the Elite Weapons and they just ended up getting traded for profit. Now people will have to think a little more about the adventures they do, the troops they hold and what they are prepared to lose.

... due to errors, bugs, glitches, server-side messups and not to mention glitches and whatever ...
I would totally agree with you if it was not for things that are (at least from my side) obviously problems caused by BlueByte totally outside the sphere of control of the players.
Why should players be tremendously punished for things they can not control?

Taste:
Major had 150 Cannons, 12 Recruits and 1 Elite left from previous kill.
Unload Major. Assign 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons for next kill.
Exit assignment menu.
Wait.
See that Major shows up in the adventure with mouse-over of 188 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons.
Triple-Check confirmed.
Assign Major to attack camp.
Major travels, showing 188Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons.
Major attacks.
"Your general has been defeated ..." --- What ???
Combat log: Major engaged combat with 12 Recruits, 1 Elite and 81 Cannons - and got smacked.
Send ticket to Support.
BlueByte stance: "You could try exiting the browser, clearing the cache and reloading between each mouse click you make" (in essence)


I am fortunate to have stocked up quite decently before the recent changes, but I pity the new players who have just saved up to get their 200 Cannoneers and have this happen to them - not to mention that it takes roughly 1 day to rebuild 5 Cannoneers if you only have a lv1 Cannon Forge (I didn't have the luxury of owning a lv5 cannon forge until October) --- presuming you have gazillions of resources saved up.

People wanted a game that wasn't easy to get to L50 and the End Game position that it is often referred to. BB has made a significant change to make this a longer term experience and to ensure that L50's have a lot still to do once they get there. I feel they have achieved this.

That would hold equally true if from time to time at unpredictable intervals, there was a meteor shower obliterating your island, destroying buildings and reducing you by a couple of levels. Losing troops to bugs is about as meaningful as losing them due to preprogrammed events that are outside player control. It still doesn't mean that the game becomes more enjoyable because of this.

To be blatantly clear here:

As long as there is the odd random uncontrollable element of losing 1-5 months of progress thanks to whatever game glitch, it's only fair that players have a way to recoup their losses because it's a terrible turn-off to lose so much progress and then get only a "idc, your problem for playing such a bug-ridden game" from BB.

[fishslice]

Whilst I stand by my previous post regarding weapons dropping from Loot I do agree you with Sharpielein in that the bugs that BB have introduced into the game make the situation intolerable on high level adventures.


They really do need to sort out this mess as to lose high level troops due to your playing choices is one thing, to lose them due to the incompetence of the game provider is another - and I didn't mention this in my earlier post as I didn't want to detract from the thread. Although if there is anything that will kill this game, its the incompetence of the development community!

[Sharpielein]

Fish,

We can't count on BB to fix the glitches they don't even admit exist or to be problematic.
Therefore, a different solution is required, and as it stands, the only feasible short-term solution is to reintroduce weapon drops.
Mid-term or long-term, that may be a different thing and I am -at least partially- inclined to agree with you that the past overabundance of weapons made the game too easy.
But as it stands now, the inability to maintain a decent army due to problems with the game calls for a short-term solution or new players will leave in frustration and when there is a lack of "fresh blood", the game is dead. And you can't count on the consistent charity of lv50's to keep the game interesting, because that's a poor substitute for proper gameplay as well.

[Sheddoe]

Genuine sincere question : why are those of you who like adventuring still doing them when there are so many bugs causing you problems?

Why don't you concentrate on your home islands (ie producing stuff you'll need etc) until the bugs are fixed, so you don't lose those expensive units?