Increasing the value and requirements for science resources

[TheThingu]

Terms:

When I say science resources, I'm talking about the paper and nib/letters etc. resources required to make manuscripts. Basically any resource in the science tab in the economy overview.

Most resource values listed below are either the required resources to make one manuscript/tomes/codexes or the income you get from said resource every 12 hours (unless otherwise specified).

All time duration displayed below for a manuscript/tome/codex are based with a level 5 bookbinder.

The issue:

One of the bigger downside with science resources is how fast you can produce them compared to how slow you need them. On the example of manuscript, you only ever generally use simple paper to make manuscripts and the occasional oddball here and there for some quests. Let's look at some numbers.

A level 5 bookbinder takes roughly 9 and half hours to produce a manuscript with the 20% small glue buff. In terms of resources (at maximum cost) that's 590 simple paper and 470 nibs. In other words, at max level with buffs for a high level player, you need to maintain a constant income of 737 simple paper and 587 nibs every 12 hours. This is extremely easy to overcome with 2 x level 3 simple papermill buffed. Hell, a buffed level 5 is enough to cover the needs for a general player. In short at highest possible level you only need one simple papermill ever and even then you'll end up with some built up papers.

In terms of tomes, things are even grim... or should I say, easier.

At max cost you need 605 intermediate paper and 415 letterheads for 11.5 hours of processing with 20% small glue buff (lets round that up to a neat 12 hours shall we) to produce one tome. However it also takes 5 manuscripts. Creating 5 manuscript at constant optimal buffing as well as the time it takes to make one tome is around 60 hours. That means you need to get at least 605 intermediate paper and 415 letterheads every 60 hours. That's a level two non-buffed intermediate papermill for max players.

I know some of you will say "oh but I use paper to make map fragments or I use paper to bla bla so I need a high level science buidlings." Yes, sure, but look at nibs or letterheads, Those are generally never required for any of those or at least, in very small amounts and the prices on those is extremely low since you build up such huge quantities of them in short time, you turn them on for a few hours and then off.

So what can we do, to make science resources more... valuable. To entice players to maybe trade away their excess resources and make a market around it or just to make them viable for players again? And maybe boost the tome production a little bit?

The solution:

The option to pay twice the resources for a 5% lower duration, capped at 25%.

What does it mean? It means the following as an example:

Manuscript

Price = Duration (Level 5 bookbinder, no buffs)

590 simple paper 470 nibs 24 coins = 12 hours
1180 simple paper 940 nibs 48 coins = 11,4 hours (5% lower duration)
1770 simple paper 1410 nibs 72 coins = 10,9 hours (10% lower duration)
2360 simple paper 1880 nibs 96 coins = 10,4 hours (15% lower duration)
2950 simple paper 2350 nibs 120 coins = 10 hours (20% lower duration)
3540 simple paper 2820 nibs 144 coins = 9,6 hours (25% lower duration)

Tome

Price = Duration (Level 5 bookbinder, no buffs)

605 intermediate paper 415 letterheads = 14,2 hours
1210 intermediate paper 830 letterheads = 13,6 hours (5% lower duration)
1815 intermediate paper 1245 letterheads = 12,9 hours (10% lower duration)
2420 intermediate paper 1660 letterheads = 12,4 hours (15% lower duration)
3025 intermediate paper 2075 letterheads = 11,9 hours (20% lower duration)
3630 intermediate paper 2490 letterheads = 11,4 hours (25% lower duration)

Codex

Price = Duration (Level 5 bookbinder, no buffs)

560 advanced paper 400 book fitting = 16.5 hours
1120 advanced paper 800 book fitting = 15.7 hours (5% lower duration)
1680 advanced paper 1200 book fitting = 15.0 hours (10% lower duration)
2240 advanced paper 1600 book fitting = 14.3 hours (15% lower duration)
2800 advanced paper 2000 book fitting = 13.7 hours (20% lower duration)
3360 advanced paper 2400 book fitting = 13.2 hours (25% lower duration)

I will be talking about a level 5 bookbinder below.

In theory, you could produce a manuscript every 9.6 hours (every 8 hours with small glue buff) at higher resource cost. That's 5 manuscripts every 40 hours (with small glue buff) or a tome every 50 hours. That's 10 hours faster than when paying the normal amount. For a codex, that would amount to a codex every 161 hours (with small glue buffs) or in layman terms, a codex within every 7 days. Not so bad compared to the vanilla 199 hours (with small glue buffs) with its codex every 8.3 days.

The fastest manuscript would require 3540 simple paper or a production of at least 5310 simple paper per 12 hours. That's quite a lot to maintain as you would need 8 simple papermills at level 5 non-stop buffed. Most might maybe find themselves going for a 10% boost route.

The fastest tome would need 3630 intermediate paper or 726 - 871 intermediate paper production per 12 hours which is about 2 x level 4 intermediate papermills buffed. Not so bad and manageable for higher players.

Finally, the fastest codex would need 3360 advanced paper or ~250 advanced paper production per 12 hours which is about a single level 2 advanced papermill buffed. I think most players would simply keep their advanced papermill at level 2 and/or just running normally instead of always pausing and unpausing.

The ideal outcome

So in an ideal world, what would this mean? It means that if you want to boost your bookbinder, you have the option of using that excess science resource you've been building this whole time, make more science production buildings and maybe even purchase the excess other players are selling. If you don't want the extra boost, that's fine as you can totally control how much excess resources you want to use to boost your manuscript and tome production.

This could mean one of two things:

Players with high excess science resource might find more demand on the market for them. They start selling their supply, generating more income for them.

Players with no excess science resources or are simply burning through them really fast with a 25% lower duration boost, might find themselves going on TO to purchase more.

Supply and demand, marketing 101

Suddenly, science resources might find itself a rightful place in the market in TSO.

Final words

With the science tree for generals nearing closer, I think giving players the option to boost their science production at the same time would be great idea. It adds higher value to science resources again and for higher players with many many generals, might find themselves wanting to go this round to fill their generals faster.

I also think this route is fairly balanced, both in terms of player who wanna make or sell the science resources and get more science books as well as for BB on keeping manuscript/tomes/codex in check and in their control without over saturating the market and devaluing the science books.

Thank you for reading my idea, comments and suggestions are more than welcome.

[TheVictorious]

Big -1 !
It clearly you just a trader want to get benefit from the science resources that will be needed hardly next update!! personally I got 5x level 6 finesmith and 3x simple papermill, they baerly enough to run the RPH !

The RPH already expensive for the sake of saving time, better concept that what you propose ! 3.5K paper for one book! you are just kidding me!? and BTW you just for got how many tomes and manuscript needed for codex?
for your propose, on the production for codex will be (5x3x1) = 53100 simple paper, 10890 intermediate paper, and 3360 advanced paper!! + 14100 nibs, 7470 letters + 2400 bookfitting? for what? what the idea? you need like 2 weeks of production just for 1 codex!?
Oh then you say to people come to buy things from me!?

Also, I don't see any of "boost" production time with the whole idea also, with buff it just save 1 or 2 minutes?! oh no thanks, I don't see any point with this.

Again -1.
If this idea came ever to game, I'm sure I'll quit game then.

[TheThingu]

Actually I'm not a trader, I'm NOT looking to get some big money dump before next update or anything like that. If that was your first though, that (to me) says more about you than it does me.

The idea is simple. In terms of producing science resource, from low level until you hit level 53 you are WAAAAAAAAAY over producing science stuff to a point of hilarity. In terms of game mechanics it makes no sense to have a resource that's overly important but also so... not important. There in comes the idea of having the option of boosting it up slightly at increased cost.

The double price was the first thought I had but a 50% price increase for 5% lower duration would probably be better. I wasn't wanting to change or making it broken, just slightly better. I will admit, the 100% price increase for 5% benefit was probably very steep.

Now about the RPH, I didn't know (or more accurately forgot) about RPH ability to make science. That was completely my bad. Judging from the wiki, it seems it's pretty fast and a lot cheaper (compared to my idea) so yeah, you're right, it is a way better method for obtaining science faster at increased price (which is the WHOLE idea for this suggestion).

As you say, the whole idea was not to break the system but make it have more options. Especially for players in the mid levels (like me, I think I fall into that category) slightly enticing to players to not put that science building into sleep and maybe spend a little extra on that next book to shave a few hours on that next tome. I'm not seeking to replace RPH but provide a middle step.

Because the problem with RPH is its only for very very high level players.

To unlock manuscript recipe you need to be at least level 53 (and have a good friend) to unlock it.
To unlock the tome you need to be at level 58 (and have good luck).
And finally, codex requires level 63 (and have good luck).

Also, I don't see any of "boost" production time with the whole idea also, with buff it just save 1 or 2 minutes?!

Have no idea where you got that number. A 25% less duration (max price, whatever that will be, with a level 5 bookbinder) shaves the time to make a manuscript from 12 hours to 9 hours and 36 minutes. That's 2 hours and 24 minutes savings per manuscript (at maximum capped price). Add to that the small glue 20% buff and you get 8 hours. That's 4 hours faster and slightly slower than RPH and (should be) more expensiver.

If it was 50% higher price for 5% bump, that would make it somewhere around 4 x level 5 simple papermills, definitely feasable for a mid level player if he wants to go full science.

Update:

If this idea came ever to game, I'm sure I'll quit game then.

Quitting a game by adding an option that doesn't force the player to choose it and allows for more control is... immature. Are all TSO players taking this game so seriously?

[Dorotheus]

Ok so basically your suggesting the currently priced books and adding expensive but faster books to bookbinder.

The thing is this game is all about managing your resources. if you have excess your not using, not buffing those buildings is a no brainer. You put those buildings to sleep so that you can use their raw resources to other purposes such as making tools or swords or retired bandits. The low and middle level players have to do this because they have not yet built up a economy which can produce all that they need, they have to prioritize based on their most immediate need. By the time your in a position to afford your suggestion your in a position to be looking at obtaining the RPH recipes and should be stocking up so that you have a stock pile to tide you over until you have learned and have built the production you need to produce books in the RPH.

[TheVictorious]

The double price was the first thought I had but a 50% price increase for 5% lower duration would probably be better. I wasn't wanting to change or making it broken, just slightly better. I will admit, the 100% price increase for 5% benefit was probably very steep.

Now about the RPH, I didn't know (or more accurately forgot) about RPH ability to make science. That was completely my bad. Judging from the wiki, it seems it's pretty fast and a lot cheaper (compared to my idea) so yeah, you're right, it is a way better method for obtaining science faster at increased price (which is the WHOLE idea for this suggestion).

So please you do more research and play more about game before you suggest! wiki not giving you official info about things, also could be outdated or just depends on game design.

Quitting a game by adding an option that doesn't force the player to choose it and allows for more control is... immature. Are all TSO players taking this game so seriously?

I'm not taking game seriously, or most of players, but I prefer to play another game then and have fun, instead of more of wasting time, to make just a tiny little progress, the game is slow enough already, you want to save time for book making, with more resource, but you don't count the time to produce these resources?

You save a small amount of time, just to make it a lot more in the second hand?

[whitewolf69]

-1 sorry

[qawpaw]

fine as is -111

[vigabrand]

i tried reading all the post but tbh it made my brain hurt. i;ve never had a prob with science. ok producing the end products is clumsy and not very good but that has been overcome with recipes for rph. as for producing the resources, I have lots of different buffs thanks to lucky explo's. Science works perfectly well for me.

[topgearfan]

Quitting a game by adding an option that doesn't force the player to choose it and allows for more control is... immature. Are all TSO players taking this game so seriously?

No, only those in the forums.