Gen Science

[djnelson99]

Thanx t00tie, some valid observations. The skills you (and I) choose are what we feel are best for our own situations, gameplay and advs we do, so there is no real right or wrong, but for me, the unstoppable charge was just as valid as another First Aid for me, and having 8m15s MG travel time when all my other gens are on 10m30s seemed a waste for my setups.

True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1. I have plenty of setups where this is the case for SLT, and I'll endeavour to list my setups here at some point very soon, so you can compare with Evil's when he posts, and who knows, his may be better

One of the main setups I disagree with Evil over was the use of 1-up for MMAs. he went with Master Planner instead, but I ask: When does your MMA actually get used for a main full attack to gain the benefit of this vs suicide runs. Mostly suicide runs, so 1-up means more suicide runs, and whilst the argument was he couldn't find many uses for MMAs, you'll see in my SLT setups that for the four I currently have upgraded to 1-up, I make a good use of them.

As an idea, before I post setups, my typical loss on SLT is down to 125M, 842B, and approx 1445R, which I think isn't too shabby for an adv I now routinely complete in well under 1h.

Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.

[Lord-Nazgul]

Thanx t00tie, some valid observations. The skills you (and I) choose are what we feel are best for our own situations, gameplay and advs we do, so there is no real right or wrong, but for me, the unstoppable charge was just as valid as another First Aid for me, and having 8m15s MG travel time when all my other gens are on 10m30s seemed a waste for my setups.

True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1. I have plenty of setups where this is the case for SLT, and I'll endeavour to list my setups here at some point very soon, so you can compare with Evil's when he posts, and who knows, his may be better

One of the main setups I disagree with Evil over was the use of 1-up for MMAs. he went with Master Planner instead, but I ask: When does your MMA actually get used for a main full attack to gain the benefit of this vs suicide runs. Mostly suicide runs, so 1-up means more suicide runs, and whilst the argument was he couldn't find many uses for MMAs, you'll see in my SLT setups that for the four I currently have upgraded to 1-up, I make a good use of them.

As an idea, before I post setups, my typical loss on SLT is down to 125M, 842B, and approx 1445R, which I think isn't too shabby for an adv I now routinely complete in well under 1h.

Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.

Good point and agree with u about MMA and 1-up skill,most of my mmas will be like that for sac.Thinking to leave only one for attack MMA for Easter events and that's it.

[SmurfAsH]

I'd like to point out some things I don't necessarily agree with especially for MG:

You put 2 books on
Unstoppable Charge
Increases the maximum attack damage of your swift units by 1/2/3 and their attacks have a 33/66/100% chance of dealing splash damage.

This effects cavalry, knights and mounted marksmen.

Cav gain 10/20/30% and splash damage which is significant but:
- nobody over lvl 58 really cares about cavalry
- cav have such a weak hit they are already kind of splash damage anyway, you need 12-24 to kill one elite soldier

Knights gain about 2-3-5% and splash damage. The AD gain is very small, splash might make a difference against the weakest ali enemies but:
- I use way fewer knights after the CoA gens arrived, I mostly use them on Anslem
- MM on Vargus are way better, I don't think I'll ever use Kn on vargus

Mounted Marksmen gain 1-2-3% AD, they already deal splash damage
- Not nearly enough to be worth the books IMNSHO
..

What if those few extra AD is enough to take down a boss without losses?
tsotesting.com/threads/22575 - discussion about last camp in woodcutter

[SmurfAsH]

..
True, the extra 5 space on MG may have been useful, but I also find there are so many camps where every enemy gets to deal a blow before they die regardless, so the losses don't reduce with that little extra space and having harder hitting cannons and besiegers seemed to work for me. It's a 50/50 decision, but I made my choice so I have to stick with it

The argument for weak cav can be argued for, when you have the case of using cav so they finish off remaining troops in Round 2 before they get to hit you, and therefore also the strike in Round 1.
..

..and there those 5 extra would be neat to have.

[SmurfAsH]

..
Those 2/3 confident leader may make for better blocks and 'may' realise some new ones in the future, but to be fair, if a block is tight, just throw an extra 1R(BHG) to walk just in front of the block gen and an instant 10s is added to the time, without wasting books to do so, and compromising strike power for less time in a block. I'd prefer a heavier hitter all the time then slightly faster block times that 'may' be relevant on a few camps later. But reducing block times for attack gens is not necessarily a bad thing - ALL skills are a matter of personal choice and all (most) are equally valid.

I think Erevan made some good points in thesettlersonline.net/threads/24350 - Getting the most out of Anslem ..

..
I’ve seen comments dismissing this skill for all but sacrifice generals. Actually, it makes more sense to put Confident Leader on Anslem, whose attacks can easily last 10 rounds, than on a general that dies after one round. With other skills like Battle Frenzy significantly reducing the time it takes Anslem to kill a camp, I expect Confident Leader would present opportunities for even more creative blocking. But I couldn’t test the hypothesis in the scope of this demonstration.

In this test case we could apply 2 codexes to Confident Leader and shorten Anslem’s 6-round victory to the same duration as 4.2 rounds. Considering we started with 17-19 rounds, that’s pretty awesome. How much opportunity do you want for better blocks? This is your call. If any general will benefit from Confident Leader, it’s Anslem.
..

[djnelson99]

Agreed SmurfAsH, and this is one of those discussions where BB have so got it right... The diversity of skills and the situations they can be good for is so diverse and the opportunities aplenty that there is no true right or wrong, but trying to strike a personal balance for which books to use. If only we could skill all skills, but we can't hehe, so we have to choose what would be best for us, and it is a hard choice sometimes, but all you got to do is make an informed choice, skill it, and live with it Loving these books

[djnelson99]

My setups (currently!) for SLT with fully skilled MGs, CoA, 1x Atk Vet, 4 MMAs, and 3 sacrifice BHGs with 3x Rapid Fire and 3x First Aid as a minimum:

I have omitted block camps - this list is just for comparison of attack camps with other guides, using Evil's camp numbering for ease of comparison :

All MMA attacks are skilled MMAs with 1-up unless stated otherwise).

Start:
L1 - 92R, 1E, 102K(Va)

Right side:
C17 - 115B(BHG) || 134R, 1E, 127C, 18K(MG)
C18 - 145R, 1E, 19K(An)
L7 - 1R(MA) || 67R, 1E, 153C, 39K(Atk Vet)

C20 - 131R, 1E, 103K(MA) - the only time I use a MMA for an attack on this adv, but 1-Up still here as he gets to die twice later ;o)
C21 - 1R(MA) || 96R, 1E, 98K(Va)
L8 - 1R(MA) || 155R, 1E, 124K(MG)
C24 - 1R(MA) || 1R(LD) || 250C(V)
L9 - 1R(MA) || 105R, 1E, 54C, 120K(MG)

Centre:
C10 - 124R, 1E, 80C, 75K(MG)
L5 - 1R(Nu) || 142M, 1E, 137K(MG)
C13 - 175R(MA) || 82R, 45C, 1E, 26XB, 26K(Nu)
C14 - 80B(BHG) || 141R, 88C, 1E, 50K(MG)
C15 - a block camp, and here is where I prep camp for my block setups with 2x unskilled 1R(MA)... just how I do it :P
L6 - 180B(Nu) || 135B(MA) || 16R, 1E, 178K(Va)

Left Side:
L2 - 155B(BHG) || 69R, 23B, 1E, 166XB, 1K(Atk Vet)
L3 - 200B(BHG) || 60R, 40B, 1E, 158XB, 1K(Atk Vet)
L4 - 61R(An) || 35R, 1E, 244K(MG)

Typical loss each time has been 125M, 842B, ~1445R.

you will see there are 8 MMA 1R attacks due to 4x 1-up. I am sure there are more opportunities for savings by using 1R MMA attacks to weaken camps if you get more skilled MMAs allowing for more sacrifices.

Note the use of Cav for MG and Atk Vet - this is where Unstoppable Charge has assisted?

I am not saying these are the best setups, but these are what I have simmed so far with my skill sets from Page 1. Happy killing!

A final note - I tend to run advs for speed - I do not use necessarily the best gen for each attack, so where a MG may give a slight saving over Vet, it may be the vet is concurrently attacking whilst MGs are in use elsewhere, etc. So you may find better setups if you are prepared to do advs slower and wait for right gen each time!

[SmurfAsH]

Agreed SmurfAsH, and this is one of those discussions where BB have so got it right... The diversity of skills and the situations they can be good for is so diverse and the opportunities aplenty that there is no true right or wrong, but trying to strike a personal balance for which books to use. If only we could skill all skills, but we can't hehe, so we have to choose what would be best for us, and it is a hard choice sometimes, but all you got to do is make an informed choice, skill it, and live with it Loving these books

Though I think they could have done better when it comes to diversity.. Garrison Annex on 4th row is choking it - I would rather have it on the 3rd row - and some skills are not worth investing in.
But as..

..
There are some rough ideas on possible ways to increase the value for some skills.
..

..I wouldn't be surprised if they would do some more changes and gave us a "free-reskill-week" upon that.

I guess guidemakers wouldn't be that happy about it, but if the changes atleast would not affect the combat mechanism then any useful combat simulator would still be useful.
I mean, adding some after combat functions to some skills (eg a first aid or hostile takeover function to Weekly maintenance and Cleave) and switching skilltree location between Garrison Annex and Battle Frenzy are some things I would really like to see.

[Dorotheus]

Though I think they could have done better when it comes to diversity.. Garrison Annex on 4th row is choking it - I would rather have it on the 3rd row - and some skills are not worth investing in.
But as..

..I wouldn't be surprised if they would do some more changes and gave us a "free-reskill-week" upon that.

I guess guidemakers wouldn't be that happy about it, but if the changes atleast would not affect the combat mechanism then any useful combat simulator would still be useful.
I mean, adding some after combat functions to some skills (eg a first aid or hostile takeover function to Weekly maintenance and Cleave) and switching skilltree location between Garrison Annex and Battle Frenzy are some things I would really like to see.

Seeing as they have mentioned a jog buff I would not be surprised if we also got other skill based buffs. This would negate the need for changes thus negating the need for matching free re-skills.

[SmurfAsH]

Seeing as they have mentioned a jog buff I would not be surprised if we also got other skill based buffs. This would negate the need for changes thus negating the need for matching free re-skills.

And that's wrong thinking.
The need for matching free re-skills is because of the increased value of some skills and that leads to revaluation of previous choices.