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Thread: Reasonable use of Mary Christmas.

  1. #1
    Glorious Graduate
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    Reasonable use of Mary Christmas.

    In progress ...

    Thanks to all players who contribute to this thread!
    Mary Christmas makes quite a difference in the easier 1001 adventures, it's up to you to find the balance between speed (time needed to play an adv.), extra losses (often worth it for the extra XP), and general complexity of the adventure (many attacks with Mary Christmas are possible as wave 2, after a suicidal waves with Bowmen/Recruits), if you want to use all 70 generals from your Star Menu

    I started this thread for Mary without combat skills, but it's obvious that a 200 units general need full skills ASAP, to improve the experience.
    Evil_J and Settlers Wiki have their recommendations, but generally most useful skills for Mary are Fast Learner-3 (obviously) and Overrun-3, Charge-3, Frenzy-1/2/3, Annex-3, Master Planner.
    You can choose whatever skills you like, but if you have doubts, keep in mind that most XP is gained from Bosses with high Hit Points, and Overrun is almost a must in such cases (of course, Frenzy, even 1 book, also helps in those cases).


    FT adventures without skills are not tempting for Mary, but with proper skills you can get 17% more XP from HLT - see link at the bottom.

    If you have any information to add, please share, but try to be thourough (especially by giving the basic XP for the camp in question).
    Treasure of Knowledge, Besieged City have some camps were unskilled Mary can be used without extra losses, but I rarely play those adventures.
    All simulations made for BHG general, differences between Mary and a BHG can be considered negligable.

    Mary Christmas (without skills) killing camps with no losses (or losses similar to other generals).
    With Skilled Mary, there are usually more camps to attack - check spoilers at the bottom of this page for links.

    All camp numbers are referred to Evil_J's guides (for skilled CoAs, if available).

    Ali Baba, the Young Woodcutter
    a) C2: 110 Desert Marksman, 100 Stone Cannon, XP = 5.2k
    2MoS 95ArM 103MoM
    b) *** not numbered camp, sector 2 (between C3 and C4, but lower): 90 Sword Clasher, 100 Desert Marksman, XP = 3.9k
    *** - Normally, this camp can be skipped, only reason to attack it is to get the extra XP
    200MoM
    c) C8: 90 Sword Clasher, 90 Stone Cannon, XP = 5.6k
    2MoS 95ArM 103MoM
    NEW! d) L4: 90 Sword Clasher, 80 Horseman, 1 Treacherous Thief, XP = 5.9k
    37MoS 100MoM 63Bes duration 3 rounds (40 seconds), but still safe for the double block.
    e) C12: 100 Desert Marksman, 100 Stone Cannon, XP = 5.1k
    2MoS 95ArM 103MoM

    (Thanks to SnowBlizz for pointing out Leader 4 attack - just 1-2 MS higher losses than with Major, and 1 round longer than Major with Besiegers, so only difference comes from First Aid skill, if your Major has it).

    Ali Baba and the 1st Thief added by Snowblizz later in this thread (thanks!)


    Ali Baba and the 2nd Thief

    a) L3: 1 Shrewd Thief, 1 Treacherous Thief, XP = 1.7k
    5MoS 15MoM 140Bes
    b) *** not numbered camp at the North: 90 Dune Marksman, 90 Stone Cannon, XP = 5.5k
    *** - Normally, this camp can be skipped, only reason to attack it is to get the extra XP
    140MoM
    c) L7: 150 Stone Cannon, 1 Gray Thief, XP = 5.4k
    179MoM 1Bes

    Ali Baba and the 3rd Thief
    (L2 and L3 only if you follow Evil's setups for those camps, which could be improved or simplified)
    a) L2: 90 Dune Marksman, 50 Stone Cannon, 1 Mysterious Thief, XP = 4.8k
    8MoS 50ArM 33MoM 109Bes (keeping it at 1 round for the block)
    b) L3: 70 Mounted Bowman, 70 Stone Cannon, 1 Greedy Thief, max. XP = 3k (from wave-3 fight)
    after 2 suicidal waves (unskilled Vet 250R + unskilled Any 138R)
    as wave-3: Mary Christmas 135ArM
    NEW! *you can use Mary here instead of Leader 3*
    c) C8: 80 Sword Clasher, 70 Horseman, 70 Dune Marksman, XP = 5.5k
    Mary 30MoS 160MoM [losses 28MS, 2x those of Anslem]
    NEW!
    d) C11: 80 Bear, 120 Wolf Packleader, XP = 3.2k
    Mary 10MoS 190MoM [max. losses 9MS, but usually less, so it's worth it]
    e) C14: 80 Boar, 90 Wolf Packleader, XP = 2.3k
    155MoM
    f) C17: 90 Wolf, 90 Giant, XP = 3.2k
    115ArM 55MoM
    g) C19: 80 Boar, 80 Wolf Packleader, XP = 2.1k
    155MoM
    h) C22: 70 Sword Clasher, 70 Horseman, 70 Desert Marksman, XP = 4-4.2k
    (after MMAs or Nusala's 1R suicide) as wave-2: Mary Christmas 25MoS 175MoM
    i) L8: 90 Dune Marksman, 90 Stone Cannon, 1 Snooty Thief, XP = 10.5k
    24MoS 90ArM 33MoM 53Bes (12MoS higher losses, but 10.5k XP may be worth it)

    If you have lots of MMAs and Dracs, all with 1-up, try noxi's version for Skilled Mary (link in spoiler at the bottom of this post)

    Ali Baba and the Treasure of Wisdom added by Snowblizz later in this thread (thanks!)
    Check spoilers at the bottom for other ToW version (for skilled Mary only).


    Ali Baba and the Treasure of Knowledge
    - added, again, by Snowblizz later in this thread (thanks a lot for keeping this thread alive!). Mixed versions for skilled/unskilled Mary Christmas.

    2 more adventures added later in this thread, thanks again to Snowblizz, both version mixed (for skilled and unskilled Mary):
    Aladdin and the Oil Lamp
    Aladdin and the Beautiful Princess

    Sinbad and the Besieged City just 14.3k XP and 17-24 MS of extra losses for unskilled Mary.
    C3) 80 Sailor, 70 Petty Offficer, 70 Cannon Master = 4.7k XP
    Mary 17MoS 37ArM 146MoM [max. loss 17MoS, average 10MoS]
    C5) 40 Sailor, 200 Petty Officer = 4.2k XP
    Mary 200MoM
    C27) 70 Stick Ape, 50 Alpha Ape = 5.4k XP
    Mary 10MoS 70ArM 120MoM [losses: 7MoS]
    You can also try my Skilled Mary versions here (Besieged City, Sea Snake):
    Spoiler
    Sinbad and the Besieged City - Skilled Mary
    Extra basic XP = 42-66k
    Sinbad and the Sea Snake - Skilled Mary
    Extra basic XP = 15-40k


    Guides for skilled Mary Christmas (different authors, different skills!):
    dreaduk's - Ali Baba, the Young Woodcutter
    dreaduk's version of Treasure of Wisdom
    noxidjkram's - Ali Baba and the 3rd Thief + Treasure of Wisdom (when you open the document, it has tabs like Excel).
    (If you're used to Wiki camps numbers) Areop-Enap's: Treasure of Knowledge (only skilled Mary).
    SnowBlizz's - 2nd Thief expanded - with Skilled Mary options
    SnowBlizz's - One Step Ahead with useful trick for high XP gain from Mary's suicide on Treasure Camps (ships).
    Budgy's overview of Evil Queen chain (skilled Mary)

    Nords - many attacks with Mary, ca. 7k extra XP (no skills), or you can choose only some camps for lower XP and keep the speed, thanks to C0mplyOrDie.

    5 Fairy Tale chain adventures (Little Tailor) with skilled Mary.

    Seasonal:
    How you can use Mary vs. Party Crashers (starting on Day 5 of the Event, 2018, but in 2019 camps are the same)
    Unskilled Mary vs. Party Crashers in 2018 Easter Event
    Last edited by Kris3457; 24.04.19 at 17:49.

  2. #2
    Nifty
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    This is very good Kris, I look forward to doing some simming with Mary - but you appear to have broken your first rule - missing the basic (non Mary) XP

    "If you have any information to add, please share, but try to be thourough (especially by giving the basic XP for the camp in question), and let's keep Mary without combat skills for now."
    Last edited by Raddichio; 13.12.17 at 10:08.

  3. #3
    Glorious Graduate
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    Thanks, and let's call them request/recommendations, I don't have the power to enforce any rules for forum posts
    However, I'm not clear what you meant. XP is given in the basic version, for any general (without Fast Learner as well)., so for non-skilled Mary it will be double values of what I wrote.

  4. #4
    Nifty
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    Ah! I see - that makes sense now - I assumed they were the increased XP. My mistake thanks for the clarification.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for starting this thread Kris3457 - I've been trying to figure out what to use Mary for and had been thinking along your lines of just as BHG gaining extra XP for certain camps in alis especially.

    However when you take into account the skills, I'm half considering giving her 3 manus in juggernaut (to get splash damage for her attacks) and 3 in stoppable charge and garrison annex (i haven't used UC in any other gens yet) just to increase her killing power as a mop up Gen or killing whole camps with 215 cav for ft advs or 215 MM for the alis.

    Anybody any thoughts on this ? Hopefully i'm not hijacking your good thread

  6. #6
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    Since we went off topic, I'm a fan of UC for normal adventures (charge on Alis only makes difference if you can use Knights, for Mounted Marksmen it's negligable), so I've planned Charge-3, Annex-3 and naturally Fast Learner-3.
    I'll also add 5 books for speed skills (Jog+Navi, to synchronize with my other good generals), and I'm still hesitant about the remaining 7.
    Rapid Fire (but even 215 Bowmen suicide normally won't generate much XP) or Juggernaut, also not very profitable, but since I need 8 manuscripts, I'll probably take Jugg-3, RF-2 (I normally have First Aid-3 on all generals, but if Mary will be used for no/low losses fights, First Aid seems like a waste for now - of course we can use Mary to kill tougher camps too, we just have to decide where the extra losses are outweighed by the gains in XP, but it will require some serious number crunching, and I won't do it).
    Last edited by Kris3457; 13.12.17 at 14:40.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the guide, Kris! I'm sure many will find it useful over the event if they pick up Mary Christmas!

  8. #8
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    Kris3457 have u checked Mary Christmas XP gained from killing enemy camps while having 3/3 Fast Learner?
    I have done 3T using Mary Christmas general, having 3/3 Fast Learner.
    Since Mary Christmas has 100% increase XP => 2.0 * 1,3(Fast Learner) = 2.6 base dmg.
    I have noticed I get only 2.3 base dmg. I am not sure if this is a bug or what?

  9. #9
    Treasure Hunter
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    Quote Originally Posted by mussa33 View Post
    Kris3457 have u checked Mary Christmas XP gained from killing enemy camps while having 3/3 Fast Learner?
    I have done 3T using Mary Christmas general, having 3/3 Fast Learner.
    Since Mary Christmas has 100% increase XP => 2.0 * 1,3(Fast Learner) = 2.6 base dmg.
    I have noticed I get only 2.3 base dmg. I am not sure if this is a bug or what?
    You are probably only getting +100% on base XP. No where does it state you get to increase on the increase. Most things in TO boost absed value not bosoted value. Just look at buffs where they cna run concurrently, they don't stack multiplicatively.
    So with Fast Learner x3 you get form 100XP camp:
    100 XP
    +30% of 100 xp Fast learner = 30XP
    +100% of 100 xp from Mary = 100XP
    So effectively 130% of base value.

  10. #10
    Original Serf
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    In YWC can Mary kill L1 as well as C2..? If so then she can replace the MG as I block there and it would be pointless unless she can take both camps.

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