Librarian, Archivist and Collector do not count existing books

[fishslice]

Well seeing as you cant get 100% of achievements until at least 12 months after the initial achievements go-live date I wonder how big a problem this really is.
Has anyone done the maths to show how long it will take a L50 player who has already invested heavily in science books and is at the max of production levels to achieve this achievement? If its less than 12 months I don't see the problem, if its longer then fair does and BB should maybe do something.


Personally I am happy that it will take most people 'forever' especially if they don't keep the science buildings busy ;-)

[Sharpielein]

Let's calculate for a max player.

20 Codex (x16hr) require 100 Tome (x14hr) require 500 Manuscript (x12hr), so it's:
320+1400+6000 = 7720 hours of production on a lv5 bookbinder.
Yeah, it's less than 12 months. It's only 321 days, assuming you don't miss a single minute of production! [how likely is that for a working, sleeping person with Real Life? ]

However, the same achievement, for a new player who has just started today, would cost:
9 days for upgrading the Bookbinder to level 5 + 50 days for Scripts + 24 days for Tomes + 13 days for Codex = 96 days.

So, 312 vs. 96 days - not even going to mention the fact that it takes a whole truckload of additional resources for the same ends.

I think Bluebyte is trying to tell longterm players "You are getting old and slow, time to retire [and let your island die] - make room for young and agile players"

[Fexno]

20 Codex (x16hr) require 100 Tome (x14hr) require 500 Manuscript (x12hr)

Let's be a bit more accurate in the numbers used:
1) a codex on max cost, requires 3 tomes, not 5
2) level 5 bookbinder tome creation time is 14 hours and 24 minutes, not 14 hours
3) level 5 bookbinder codex creation time is 16 hours 48 minutes, not 16 hours

Resulting in 20 codex, 60 tome, 300 manuscript for an existing player, taking 201 days and 8 hours
For a new player this results in 20 codex, 50 tome and 100 manuscript, taking 94 days after upgrading to a level 5 bookbinder (8 days, 1 hour and 2.5 minutes), so 102 days 1 hour and 2.5 minutes

As a warning to new players reading this thread, getting this achievement is not the only thing you should consider.
Getting your bookbinder up to level 5 might be worth it, but only if you can get enough resources to keep the bookbinder running day and night.
Actually investing the books in your geologist or explorer as soon as you can will benefit you much more then obtaining these achievements.
This does mean that getting this achievement will take a lot longer, since it depends on in what order you invest and create the books.

For those interested in that math:

Spoiler

A new player has to follow his level and will probably first invest multiple manuscripts before you are even able to use tomes.
Let's say you have 2 geologists and 3 explorers, (meaning you can invest a max of 55 manuscripts, 50 tomes and 30 codexes).
You'll probably reach the required level to create tomes before you created those 55 manuscripts, but since manuscripts don't require a lower tier book, this doesn't really matter.
So let's just assume you invested all possible manuscripts and are able to invest all 50 tomes in your specialists
The first 20 tomes require an additional 20 manuscripts
The second batch of 20 tomes require an additional 40 manuscripts
The last 10 tomes require an additional 30 manuscripts.
Making the total of 50 tomes and 55+90=145 manuscripts, this will take quite a while and you'll probably get access to the codex before that and might want to invest some of them, before investing all tomes.

• Let's assume you'll invest the tomes first and then starts making the codexes
  this means you can invest all 30 codexes now
  The first 10 require 10 tomes and thus 30 manuscripts
  Next 10 require 10 tomes and 40 manuscripts
  (at this point you have all 3 achievements and created 20 codexes, 70 tomes and 215 manuscripts.
  Which took 163 days and 12 hours on a level 5 bookbinder, or 272 days and 12 hours on a level 3 bookbinder)
  The remaining 10 require 10 tomes and 40 manuscripts
  Making the total 30 codexes, 50+30=80 tomes and 55+90+140=285 manuscripts
  
• Let's assume you want your geo's fully specced first before creating additional tomes
  this means you start creating 12 codexes after creating 20 tomes then finish up with the remaining 30 tomes and 18 codexes
  The first 20 tomes require an additional 20 manuscripts
  Then 12 codexes which require 12 tomes and thus (2*12=)24 manuscripts
  Making the total 12 codexes, 20+12=32 tomes and 55+20+24=99 manuscripts
  The next 8 tomes require 8*2=16 manuscripts
  Then 10 tomes requiring 10*3=30 manuscripts
  Making the total 12 codexes, 20+12+18=50 tomes and 55+20+24+46=145 manuscripts
  The next 8 codexes require 8 tomes and 8*3=24 manuscripts
  (at this point you have all 3 achievements and created 20 codexes, 58 tomes and 169 manuscripts.
  Which took 132 days and about 15 hours on a level 5 bookbinder, or 221 days on a level 3 bookbinder)
  The next 2 codexes require 2 tomes and 8*2=24 manuscripts
  The last 8 codexes require 8 tomes and 8*4=32 manuscripts
  Making the total 30 codexes, 20+12+18+18=68 tomes and 55+20+24+46+62=207 manuscripts

[SmurfAsH]

20 Codex (x16hr) require 100 Tome (x14hr) require 500 Manuscript (x12hr)

How many codices have you made so far?

[color=indigo]Let's be a bit more accurate in the numbers used:
1) a codex on max cost, requires 3 tomes, not 5

Are you sure?
I think it's just about none has yet confirmed (or been able to confirm) it's 5..

[Fexno]

Are you sure?
I think it's just about none has yet confirmed (or been able to confirm) it's 5..

Yes, unless tsotesting is different on this point then our servers.
Or if they changed something since I posted this

Not really keen on buying all those books on test again

[Peajay]

Realistically a newer player will lose more than 170 days to complete this achievement (no reward as usual just points) as they will not have the resources for level 5 upgrades and will not use what they get on the bookbinder.
No normal player will be producing more than 1 of the books per day, or be using bookbinder glue. I'm also willing to bet there will be down time as well, as they will not have resources to make books sometimes.

[Fexno]

Not really keen on buying all those books on test again

Fortunately I have a minion for that nowadays, and he reported that even after 115 codexes the cost per codex is still 3 tomes


(Starting value on tsotesting for tomes is 50,000)

[minion79]

My wrist is sore, but my inquisitiveness has been sated for the mean time

Always happy to help where I can.

[fishslice]

So whilst people can say that the way things are working right now is grossly unfair it would also appear that at a simplistic level a good steer would be that it would take both new players and high level long standing players roughly a year to achieve the science achievements.


For high level players they are going to have to invest in making many more manuscripts and tomes to make the required codex which will take time but at least their island should support this approach.
For low level players they will have to make significantly less manuscripts and tomes to make the same number of codex but their island and economy will not allow them to focus exclusively on this science tree production and as such they will have to invest heavily in other areas first if they are going to be able to achieve the same goals as a high level player.


This all suggests an element of fairness to me and possibly even that BB has given significant thought to ensuring that newer players aren't so disadvantaged so that they don't bother staying in the game whilst also trying to ensure older established high level players still have to work for the achievements rather than just click accept on day 1 of them going live which could have happened.


Well done BB for having the guts to keep with this approach and not just bend to the objections of a minority of players

[Sharpielein]

How many codices have you made so far?

I have no idea, but not that many, because both 14h24 and 16h48 for me means "A full day", because I typically have long working days and need some sleep, so I only make them on weekends.
But I have made well over 300 Manuscripts. Actually, just because of that thing I'll personally will take like 3-4 years to complete that achievement